Subject: "The problem is Choice, Nepenthe" This topic is locked.
Previous topic | Next topic
Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend CF Website
Top Non-CF Discussion "What Does RL Stand For?" Topic #151
Show all folders

wretchedmongrelWed 13-Sep-06 02:42 AM
Member since 04th May 2005
35 posts
Click to add this author to your buddy list
#332, "The problem is Choice, Nepenthe"
Edited on Wed 13-Sep-06 02:43 AM

          

I’m not a devout Christian by any means but I do classify myself as conservative. Conservatives usually support the death penalty- true. Conservatives usually have a pro-life position on abortion – true. Inconsistent? Hardly. The difference is choice. The criminal chooses to commit the crime. Arguably, most choose where they live – I am not a fan of blowing up countries, oddly though most of our blowing up was done by liberal democratic presidents (Roosevelt –WW2 & Johnson -Vietnam). A couple chooses to have sex in a risky manner. A child does NOT choose to be conceived.

I have read this whole thread. Again, the flaw I find in your abortion reasoning is that you do not hold the pregnant parties responsible for their actions. Both mother and father are responsible for their choices and should be held accountable for them. We all know that even if you use protection there is an infinitesimal chance that you can get the girl knocked up. It is a small risk you run when you have sex. When you fail to use protection, the morning after pill is a very real solution. When I say we must hold the parents accountable I mean for them to keep and care for the child/baby/fetus until such time that they can responsibly find another to take up their burden. In rare cases it may not be your choice but sheer dumb/#### luck that you find yourself in such a scenario.


A lot of ‘reality’ reasons have been mentioned as to why holding the parents accountable is not feasible. I did a little research on the demographics of abortion. I found my information on the website: http://www.third-way.com/ . According to this study most abortions are performed on the poor and young. However, most of these people are not living in poverty; they simply are too young to have a high paying job. Most abortions are performed because the pregnancy was unplanned. When I look at the data, unplanned to me appears to mean careless. Condoms are cheap, use them. The pill is affordable, use that too. If the condom breaks, go get a morning after pill the next day. Over half of the abortions performed in this country are done to women between 20 and 29 and most of them are done because it is inconvenient for them to have the child. The woman chose to engage in an act that could produce a child. Her body is the kid’s temple that she invited him into with her risky behavior. The baby lives at her sufferance true, but she chose to undertake the action to invite it. Therefore it is my opinion that she has little right to demand its life because it would be convenient for her. Drawing a line anywhere is ludicrous. At what point is a baby human? 1 month before birth when it can survive outside the womb? 4 months when it looks vaguely human like? Making such an arbitrary choice has little to do with what is right and wrong but with what is easy or potentially difficult. Being responsible isn’t always easy but can you argue that it is wrong?

Ideas for dealing with the burden (or gift – as you perceive it) of an unwanted pregnancies are many. I personally think that we should make it easier to adopt and put some dollars in R&D for better and cheaper morning after solutions. Both of those ideas are band-aids for the larger cause of abortion which is a cavalier attitude towards sex in our culture. I would say it’s a reasonable conclusion to draw that so many unplanned pregnancies happen because both men and women don’t take the consequences of pre-marital sex seriously. It is an attitude adjustment that I think would help best for the dilemma, and talking about it is the first step towards realizing it.

All that garbage said there are many extenuating circumstances in this issue. The woman may have been raped, it may be unsafe for the mother to bear the child, and the baby may be deformed. I grant in some of these cases being arbitrary and aborting the child may be the right thing to do. The problem with this is that at the very largest, this whole group combined is less than 7% of the total abortion cases. What is the purpose of laws other than to legislate morality? With that question in mind I believe law should be written for the majority and exceptions made for the minority. Would you have wanted to be aborted because your birth would make your parents change their lifestyle? I could very easily have been an aborted child myself and I thank god and my parents that they chose to keep me.

  

Alert | IP Printer Friendly copy

HOT Locked TopicObligatory. Politics. Discuss. n/t [View all] , Eskelian, Thu 31-Aug-06 02:30 AM
Reply Thread locked on account of sprawl., Valguarnera, 13-Sep-06 09:12 AM, #123
Reply This essey pretty much sums up my current world view., Odrirg, 03-Sep-06 01:27 AM, #16
Reply RE: Vitriol:, Valguarnera, 05-Sep-06 03:26 PM, #17
Reply RE: Vitriol:, DurNominator, 05-Sep-06 04:06 PM, #19
Reply Wow... just wow...., Tac, 05-Sep-06 03:57 PM, #18
Reply RE: Wow... just wow...., Valguarnera, 05-Sep-06 04:32 PM, #20
Reply Heh..., Tac, 05-Sep-06 04:37 PM, #21
Reply This is a Fallacious argument., (NOT Pro), 06-Sep-06 06:25 PM, #30
     Reply RE: "Mexican invasion", Valguarnera, 07-Sep-06 02:58 PM, #47
     Reply Why won't they legalize it?, Tac, 07-Sep-06 03:02 PM, #48
     Reply My take:, Valguarnera, 07-Sep-06 03:18 PM, #49
     Reply RE: Why won't they legalize it?, nepenthe, 07-Sep-06 03:27 PM, #50
     Reply RE: Why won't they legalize it?, Eskelian, 07-Sep-06 10:24 PM, #77
          Reply RE: Why won't they legalize it?, Eskelian, 07-Sep-06 10:33 PM, #78
               Reply We'll probably have to kill them all. nt, Aodh, 08-Sep-06 12:26 AM, #80
     Reply RE: Why won't they legalize it?, Isildur, 07-Sep-06 03:41 PM, #52
     Reply You pointed out the danger., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 04:32 PM, #55
     Reply RE: You pointed out the danger., nepenthe, 07-Sep-06 05:47 PM, #64
          Reply Uhm.. Geography., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 06:28 PM, #71
     Reply Don't marginalize the harm of it however., Eskelian, 07-Sep-06 10:18 PM, #76
          Reply RE: Don't marginalize the harm of it however., Muuloc, 08-Sep-06 01:40 AM, #83
               Reply Quick note on that:, Valguarnera, 08-Sep-06 08:55 AM, #84
               Reply RE: Quick note on that:, Eskelian, 08-Sep-06 09:01 AM, #86
               Reply Whoops., Valguarnera, 08-Sep-06 09:38 AM, #89
               Reply According to Darwyn, (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 10:16 AM, #94
               Reply Thats absurd., Eskelian, 08-Sep-06 08:55 AM, #85
               Reply RE: Don't marginalize the harm of it however., Isildur, 08-Sep-06 09:45 AM, #91
               Reply Completely rational., (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 10:17 AM, #95
               Reply 3.4% of our GNP goes to the military., (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 10:13 AM, #93
                    Reply Do you even know what a GNP is?, Valguarnera, 08-Sep-06 12:43 PM, #102
                         Reply Military R&D is 72B I think., (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 07:12 PM, #104
                              Reply Eventually, we'll be able to kill everyone! ~, Aodh, 08-Sep-06 09:18 PM, #107
     Reply RE: This is a Fallacious argument., Muuloc, 08-Sep-06 01:34 AM, #82
          Reply Why?, (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 10:18 AM, #96
Reply As a 17 year Veteran...., (NOT Pro), 06-Sep-06 06:04 PM, #29
     Reply RE: As a 17 year Veteran...., nepenthe, 06-Sep-06 11:07 PM, #34
     Reply RE: As a 17 year Veteran...., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 01:38 AM, #35
          Reply RE: As a 17 year Veteran...., nepenthe, 07-Sep-06 08:53 AM, #37
               Reply It's worth noting that:, Valguarnera, 07-Sep-06 11:04 AM, #40
                    Reply RE: It's worth noting that:, nepenthe, 07-Sep-06 01:28 PM, #41
                         Reply Question:, Tac, 07-Sep-06 02:02 PM, #42
                         Reply To me this is the equivilant of saying., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 02:09 PM, #44
                              Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., A2, 07-Sep-06 02:30 PM, #45
                              Reply Who once said it needed to be in a bubble? Anyone?, (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 04:35 PM, #56
                              Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., Tac, 07-Sep-06 02:59 PM, #46
                              Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., Isildur, 07-Sep-06 03:34 PM, #51
                              Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., Tac, 07-Sep-06 03:58 PM, #53
                              Reply The fair tax is a Great idea., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 04:40 PM, #59
                              Reply RE: The fair tax is a Great idea., Isildur, 07-Sep-06 04:58 PM, #62
                                   Reply Heh. nt, Wilhath, 07-Sep-06 06:11 PM, #69
                              Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., Isildur, 07-Sep-06 04:49 PM, #60
                                   Reply One dose of insanity...., Tac, 07-Sep-06 05:49 PM, #65
                              Reply 30 Million Illegals in 10 years., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 04:39 PM, #58
                                   Reply RE: 30 Million Illegals in 10 years., Isildur, 07-Sep-06 05:08 PM, #63
                                        Reply It grew., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 08:06 PM, #72
                              Reply I think we should stop ALL immigration, (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 04:37 PM, #57
                              Reply So can we deport you?, Tac, 07-Sep-06 05:51 PM, #67
                              Reply RE: I think we should stop ALL immigration, Eskelian, 07-Sep-06 10:00 PM, #75
                                   Reply Where I think a lot of you misunderstand me is here...., (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 10:09 AM, #92
                              Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., Eskelian, 07-Sep-06 09:58 PM, #74
                              Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., Eshval, 13-Sep-06 12:55 AM, #118
                                   Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., Valkenar, 13-Sep-06 08:39 AM, #120
                         Reply It's worth noting also that I got seriously ####ed up o..., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 02:05 PM, #43
                              Reply Wait till they slash your benefits. ~ (Blackbird), Aodh, 07-Sep-06 06:26 PM, #70
                                   Reply They keep increasing mine., (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 10:19 AM, #97
     Reply A quote..., Barduin, 07-Sep-06 04:02 PM, #54
Reply Patriotism is hilarious, Valkenar, 05-Sep-06 05:29 PM, #22
Reply RE: This essey pretty much sums up my current world vie..., nepenthe, 05-Sep-06 05:59 PM, #23
Reply Losing would be allowing OUR government to become like ..., TheLastMohican, 05-Sep-06 08:04 PM, #24
Reply devil's advocate question for the peanut gallery. txt, Isildur, 06-Sep-06 04:08 PM, #25
Reply RE: devil's advocate question for the peanut gallery. t..., Tac, 06-Sep-06 04:56 PM, #26
Reply I wrote out this whole long thing that the forum ate..., Wilhath, 06-Sep-06 05:36 PM, #28
Reply RE: devil's advocate, Valguarnera, 06-Sep-06 05:25 PM, #27
     Reply RE: devil's advocate, (NOT Pro), 06-Sep-06 09:48 PM, #31
     Reply No offense Valg, but Pro will never learn., TheLastMohican, 06-Sep-06 10:36 PM, #32
          Reply Sure he will...., Tac, 06-Sep-06 10:43 PM, #33
          Reply It is a bad topic for this board., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 01:54 AM, #36
               Reply RE: It is a bad topic for this board., Isildur, 07-Sep-06 10:25 AM, #39
               Reply RE: It is a bad topic for this board., Valkenar, 07-Sep-06 04:53 PM, #61
               Reply LAUGH!, (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 07:20 PM, #105
               Reply Seek counseling., Valguarnera, 07-Sep-06 05:50 PM, #66
                    Reply *edit*, Wilhath, 07-Sep-06 06:05 PM, #68
     Reply RE: devil's advocate, Isildur, 07-Sep-06 10:20 AM, #38
Reply RE: This essey pretty much sums up my current world vie..., Muuloc, 08-Sep-06 01:30 AM, #81
Reply Vague Topic, Amaranthe, 31-Aug-06 03:39 PM, #3
Reply RE: Vague Topic, Grurk Muouk, 31-Aug-06 03:53 PM, #4
Reply RE: Vague Topic, nepenthe, 31-Aug-06 05:50 PM, #5
Reply RE: Vague Topic, Amaranthe, 31-Aug-06 06:52 PM, #6
Reply RE: Vague Topic, Eskelian, 31-Aug-06 08:08 PM, #8
Reply RE: Vague Topic, Isildur, 01-Sep-06 10:56 AM, #9
     Reply RE: Vague Topic, Eskelian, 01-Sep-06 05:11 PM, #10
     Reply RE: Vague Topic, Isildur, 01-Sep-06 11:54 PM, #11
          Reply RE: Vague Topic, Eskelian, 07-Sep-06 09:50 PM, #73
               Reply RE: Vague Topic, nepenthe, 07-Sep-06 11:04 PM, #79
               Reply Bingo. n/t, Eskelian, 08-Sep-06 09:04 AM, #87
               Reply RE: Vague Topic, Tac, 08-Sep-06 09:15 AM, #88
               Reply RE: Vague Topic, nepenthe, 08-Sep-06 10:49 AM, #99
                    Reply They *are* seperate issues, Tac, 08-Sep-06 11:42 AM, #100
                         Reply RE: They *are* seperate issues, nepenthe, 08-Sep-06 07:28 PM, #106
                              Reply I gotta ask, Minyar, 12-Sep-06 01:37 PM, #108
                                   Reply I've been meaning to respond to this.... (Nepenthe's), Tac, 12-Sep-06 02:43 PM, #109
                                   Reply RE: I've been meaning to respond to this.... (Nepenthe'..., nepenthe, 12-Sep-06 03:48 PM, #111
                                        Reply RE: I've been meaning to respond to this.... (Nepenthe'..., Tac, 12-Sep-06 04:30 PM, #112
                                             Reply RE: I've been meaning to respond to this.... (Nepenthe'..., nepenthe, 12-Sep-06 05:41 PM, #113
                                                  Reply Come on now Nep, Minyar, 12-Sep-06 05:58 PM, #114
                                                       Reply Except:, Valguarnera, 12-Sep-06 08:59 PM, #115
                                                            Reply Two words: Turing Test, Tac, 12-Sep-06 09:19 PM, #116
                                                            Reply RE: Two words: Turing Test, Valguarnera, 12-Sep-06 11:37 PM, #117
                                                            Reply RE: Two words: Turing Test, Tac, 13-Sep-06 08:47 AM, #121
                                                            Reply RE: Two words: Turing Test, Valkenar, 13-Sep-06 09:05 AM, #122
                                   Reply RE: I gotta ask, nepenthe, 12-Sep-06 03:22 PM, #110
               Reply The problem is Choice, Nepenthe, wretchedmongrel, 13-Sep-06 02:43 AM #119
               Reply RE: Vague Topic, Isildur, 08-Sep-06 09:38 AM, #90
                    Reply RE: Vague Topic, nepenthe, 08-Sep-06 10:40 AM, #98
                         Reply According to wikipedia...., Tac, 08-Sep-06 11:46 AM, #101
                         Reply RE: Vague Topic, Isildur, 08-Sep-06 12:42 PM, #103
     Reply RE: Vague Topic, Amaranthe, 02-Sep-06 11:20 AM, #12
          Reply RE: Vague Topic, Isildur, 02-Sep-06 11:45 AM, #13
               Reply RE: Vague Topic, Amaranthe, 02-Sep-06 02:45 PM, #14
Reply RE: Vague Topic, Eskelian, 31-Aug-06 08:07 PM, #7
Reply From my blog eariler this month:, Grurk Muouk, 31-Aug-06 08:17 AM, #1
     Reply RE: From my blog eariler this month:, Isildur, 31-Aug-06 02:32 PM, #2
          Reply RE: From my blog eariler this month:, Isildur, 02-Sep-06 04:15 PM, #15
Top Non-CF Discussion "What Does RL Stand For?" Topic #151 Previous topic | Next topic