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#332, "The problem is Choice, Nepenthe"
Edited on Wed 13-Sep-06 02:43 AM
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I’m not a devout Christian by any means but I do classify myself as conservative. Conservatives usually support the death penalty- true. Conservatives usually have a pro-life position on abortion – true. Inconsistent? Hardly. The difference is choice. The criminal chooses to commit the crime. Arguably, most choose where they live – I am not a fan of blowing up countries, oddly though most of our blowing up was done by liberal democratic presidents (Roosevelt –WW2 & Johnson -Vietnam). A couple chooses to have sex in a risky manner. A child does NOT choose to be conceived.
I have read this whole thread. Again, the flaw I find in your abortion reasoning is that you do not hold the pregnant parties responsible for their actions. Both mother and father are responsible for their choices and should be held accountable for them. We all know that even if you use protection there is an infinitesimal chance that you can get the girl knocked up. It is a small risk you run when you have sex. When you fail to use protection, the morning after pill is a very real solution. When I say we must hold the parents accountable I mean for them to keep and care for the child/baby/fetus until such time that they can responsibly find another to take up their burden. In rare cases it may not be your choice but sheer dumb/#### luck that you find yourself in such a scenario.
A lot of ‘reality’ reasons have been mentioned as to why holding the parents accountable is not feasible. I did a little research on the demographics of abortion. I found my information on the website: http://www.third-way.com/ . According to this study most abortions are performed on the poor and young. However, most of these people are not living in poverty; they simply are too young to have a high paying job. Most abortions are performed because the pregnancy was unplanned. When I look at the data, unplanned to me appears to mean careless. Condoms are cheap, use them. The pill is affordable, use that too. If the condom breaks, go get a morning after pill the next day. Over half of the abortions performed in this country are done to women between 20 and 29 and most of them are done because it is inconvenient for them to have the child. The woman chose to engage in an act that could produce a child. Her body is the kid’s temple that she invited him into with her risky behavior. The baby lives at her sufferance true, but she chose to undertake the action to invite it. Therefore it is my opinion that she has little right to demand its life because it would be convenient for her. Drawing a line anywhere is ludicrous. At what point is a baby human? 1 month before birth when it can survive outside the womb? 4 months when it looks vaguely human like? Making such an arbitrary choice has little to do with what is right and wrong but with what is easy or potentially difficult. Being responsible isn’t always easy but can you argue that it is wrong?
Ideas for dealing with the burden (or gift – as you perceive it) of an unwanted pregnancies are many. I personally think that we should make it easier to adopt and put some dollars in R&D for better and cheaper morning after solutions. Both of those ideas are band-aids for the larger cause of abortion which is a cavalier attitude towards sex in our culture. I would say it’s a reasonable conclusion to draw that so many unplanned pregnancies happen because both men and women don’t take the consequences of pre-marital sex seriously. It is an attitude adjustment that I think would help best for the dilemma, and talking about it is the first step towards realizing it.
All that garbage said there are many extenuating circumstances in this issue. The woman may have been raped, it may be unsafe for the mother to bear the child, and the baby may be deformed. I grant in some of these cases being arbitrary and aborting the child may be the right thing to do. The problem with this is that at the very largest, this whole group combined is less than 7% of the total abortion cases. What is the purpose of laws other than to legislate morality? With that question in mind I believe law should be written for the majority and exceptions made for the minority. Would you have wanted to be aborted because your birth would make your parents change their lifestyle? I could very easily have been an aborted child myself and I thank god and my parents that they chose to keep me.
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Obligatory. Politics. Discuss. n/t
[View all] , Eskelian, Thu 31-Aug-06 02:30 AM
Thread locked on account of sprawl.,
Valguarnera,
13-Sep-06 09:12 AM, #123
This essey pretty much sums up my current world view.,
Odrirg,
03-Sep-06 01:27 AM, #16
RE: Vitriol:,
Valguarnera,
05-Sep-06 03:26 PM, #17
RE: Vitriol:,
DurNominator,
05-Sep-06 04:06 PM, #19
Wow... just wow....,
Tac,
05-Sep-06 03:57 PM, #18
RE: Wow... just wow....,
Valguarnera,
05-Sep-06 04:32 PM, #20
Heh...,
Tac,
05-Sep-06 04:37 PM, #21
This is a Fallacious argument.,
(NOT Pro),
06-Sep-06 06:25 PM, #30
RE: "Mexican invasion",
Valguarnera,
07-Sep-06 02:58 PM, #47
Why won't they legalize it?,
Tac,
07-Sep-06 03:02 PM, #48
My take:,
Valguarnera,
07-Sep-06 03:18 PM, #49
RE: Why won't they legalize it?,
nepenthe,
07-Sep-06 03:27 PM, #50
RE: Why won't they legalize it?,
Eskelian,
07-Sep-06 10:24 PM, #77
RE: Why won't they legalize it?,
Eskelian,
07-Sep-06 10:33 PM, #78
We'll probably have to kill them all. nt,
Aodh,
08-Sep-06 12:26 AM, #80
RE: Why won't they legalize it?,
Isildur,
07-Sep-06 03:41 PM, #52
You pointed out the danger.,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 04:32 PM, #55
RE: You pointed out the danger.,
nepenthe,
07-Sep-06 05:47 PM, #64
Uhm.. Geography.,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 06:28 PM, #71
Don't marginalize the harm of it however.,
Eskelian,
07-Sep-06 10:18 PM, #76
RE: Don't marginalize the harm of it however.,
Muuloc,
08-Sep-06 01:40 AM, #83
Quick note on that:,
Valguarnera,
08-Sep-06 08:55 AM, #84
RE: Quick note on that:,
Eskelian,
08-Sep-06 09:01 AM, #86
Whoops.,
Valguarnera,
08-Sep-06 09:38 AM, #89
According to Darwyn,
(NOT Pro),
08-Sep-06 10:16 AM, #94
Thats absurd.,
Eskelian,
08-Sep-06 08:55 AM, #85
RE: Don't marginalize the harm of it however.,
Isildur,
08-Sep-06 09:45 AM, #91
Completely rational.,
(NOT Pro),
08-Sep-06 10:17 AM, #95
3.4% of our GNP goes to the military.,
(NOT Pro),
08-Sep-06 10:13 AM, #93
Do you even know what a GNP is?,
Valguarnera,
08-Sep-06 12:43 PM, #102
Military R&D is 72B I think.,
(NOT Pro),
08-Sep-06 07:12 PM, #104
Eventually, we'll be able to kill everyone! ~,
Aodh,
08-Sep-06 09:18 PM, #107
RE: This is a Fallacious argument.,
Muuloc,
08-Sep-06 01:34 AM, #82
Why?,
(NOT Pro),
08-Sep-06 10:18 AM, #96
As a 17 year Veteran....,
(NOT Pro),
06-Sep-06 06:04 PM, #29
RE: As a 17 year Veteran....,
nepenthe,
06-Sep-06 11:07 PM, #34
RE: As a 17 year Veteran....,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 01:38 AM, #35
RE: As a 17 year Veteran....,
nepenthe,
07-Sep-06 08:53 AM, #37
It's worth noting that:,
Valguarnera,
07-Sep-06 11:04 AM, #40
RE: It's worth noting that:,
nepenthe,
07-Sep-06 01:28 PM, #41
Question:,
Tac,
07-Sep-06 02:02 PM, #42
To me this is the equivilant of saying.,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 02:09 PM, #44
RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying.,
A2,
07-Sep-06 02:30 PM, #45
Who once said it needed to be in a bubble? Anyone?,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 04:35 PM, #56
RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying.,
Tac,
07-Sep-06 02:59 PM, #46
RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying.,
Isildur,
07-Sep-06 03:34 PM, #51
RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying.,
Tac,
07-Sep-06 03:58 PM, #53
The fair tax is a Great idea.,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 04:40 PM, #59
RE: The fair tax is a Great idea.,
Isildur,
07-Sep-06 04:58 PM, #62
Heh. nt,
Wilhath,
07-Sep-06 06:11 PM, #69
RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying.,
Isildur,
07-Sep-06 04:49 PM, #60
One dose of insanity....,
Tac,
07-Sep-06 05:49 PM, #65
30 Million Illegals in 10 years.,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 04:39 PM, #58
RE: 30 Million Illegals in 10 years.,
Isildur,
07-Sep-06 05:08 PM, #63
It grew.,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 08:06 PM, #72
I think we should stop ALL immigration,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 04:37 PM, #57
So can we deport you?,
Tac,
07-Sep-06 05:51 PM, #67
RE: I think we should stop ALL immigration,
Eskelian,
07-Sep-06 10:00 PM, #75
Where I think a lot of you misunderstand me is here....,
(NOT Pro),
08-Sep-06 10:09 AM, #92
RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying.,
Eskelian,
07-Sep-06 09:58 PM, #74
RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying.,
Eshval,
13-Sep-06 12:55 AM, #118
RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying.,
Valkenar,
13-Sep-06 08:39 AM, #120
It's worth noting also that I got seriously ####ed up o...,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 02:05 PM, #43
Wait till they slash your benefits. ~ (Blackbird),
Aodh,
07-Sep-06 06:26 PM, #70
They keep increasing mine.,
(NOT Pro),
08-Sep-06 10:19 AM, #97
A quote...,
Barduin,
07-Sep-06 04:02 PM, #54
Patriotism is hilarious,
Valkenar,
05-Sep-06 05:29 PM, #22
RE: This essey pretty much sums up my current world vie...,
nepenthe,
05-Sep-06 05:59 PM, #23
Losing would be allowing OUR government to become like ...,
TheLastMohican,
05-Sep-06 08:04 PM, #24
devil's advocate question for the peanut gallery. txt,
Isildur,
06-Sep-06 04:08 PM, #25
RE: devil's advocate question for the peanut gallery. t...,
Tac,
06-Sep-06 04:56 PM, #26
I wrote out this whole long thing that the forum ate...,
Wilhath,
06-Sep-06 05:36 PM, #28
RE: devil's advocate,
Valguarnera,
06-Sep-06 05:25 PM, #27
RE: devil's advocate,
(NOT Pro),
06-Sep-06 09:48 PM, #31
No offense Valg, but Pro will never learn.,
TheLastMohican,
06-Sep-06 10:36 PM, #32
Sure he will....,
Tac,
06-Sep-06 10:43 PM, #33
It is a bad topic for this board.,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 01:54 AM, #36
RE: It is a bad topic for this board.,
Isildur,
07-Sep-06 10:25 AM, #39
RE: It is a bad topic for this board.,
Valkenar,
07-Sep-06 04:53 PM, #61
LAUGH!,
(NOT Pro),
08-Sep-06 07:20 PM, #105
Seek counseling.,
Valguarnera,
07-Sep-06 05:50 PM, #66
*edit*,
Wilhath,
07-Sep-06 06:05 PM, #68
RE: devil's advocate,
Isildur,
07-Sep-06 10:20 AM, #38
RE: This essey pretty much sums up my current world vie...,
Muuloc,
08-Sep-06 01:30 AM, #81
Vague Topic,
Amaranthe,
31-Aug-06 03:39 PM, #3
RE: Vague Topic,
Grurk Muouk,
31-Aug-06 03:53 PM, #4
RE: Vague Topic,
nepenthe,
31-Aug-06 05:50 PM, #5
RE: Vague Topic,
Amaranthe,
31-Aug-06 06:52 PM, #6
RE: Vague Topic,
Eskelian,
31-Aug-06 08:08 PM, #8
RE: Vague Topic,
Isildur,
01-Sep-06 10:56 AM, #9
RE: Vague Topic,
Eskelian,
01-Sep-06 05:11 PM, #10
RE: Vague Topic,
Isildur,
01-Sep-06 11:54 PM, #11
RE: Vague Topic,
Eskelian,
07-Sep-06 09:50 PM, #73
RE: Vague Topic,
nepenthe,
07-Sep-06 11:04 PM, #79
Bingo. n/t,
Eskelian,
08-Sep-06 09:04 AM, #87
RE: Vague Topic,
Tac,
08-Sep-06 09:15 AM, #88
RE: Vague Topic,
nepenthe,
08-Sep-06 10:49 AM, #99
They *are* seperate issues,
Tac,
08-Sep-06 11:42 AM, #100
RE: They *are* seperate issues,
nepenthe,
08-Sep-06 07:28 PM, #106
I gotta ask,
Minyar,
12-Sep-06 01:37 PM, #108
I've been meaning to respond to this.... (Nepenthe's),
Tac,
12-Sep-06 02:43 PM, #109
RE: I've been meaning to respond to this.... (Nepenthe'...,
nepenthe,
12-Sep-06 03:48 PM, #111
RE: I've been meaning to respond to this.... (Nepenthe'...,
Tac,
12-Sep-06 04:30 PM, #112
RE: I've been meaning to respond to this.... (Nepenthe'...,
nepenthe,
12-Sep-06 05:41 PM, #113
Come on now Nep,
Minyar,
12-Sep-06 05:58 PM, #114
Except:,
Valguarnera,
12-Sep-06 08:59 PM, #115
Two words: Turing Test,
Tac,
12-Sep-06 09:19 PM, #116
RE: Two words: Turing Test,
Valguarnera,
12-Sep-06 11:37 PM, #117
RE: Two words: Turing Test,
Tac,
13-Sep-06 08:47 AM, #121
RE: Two words: Turing Test,
Valkenar,
13-Sep-06 09:05 AM, #122
RE: I gotta ask,
nepenthe,
12-Sep-06 03:22 PM, #110
The problem is Choice, Nepenthe,
wretchedmongrel,
13-Sep-06 02:43 AM #119
RE: Vague Topic,
Isildur,
08-Sep-06 09:38 AM, #90
RE: Vague Topic,
nepenthe,
08-Sep-06 10:40 AM, #98
According to wikipedia....,
Tac,
08-Sep-06 11:46 AM, #101
RE: Vague Topic,
Isildur,
08-Sep-06 12:42 PM, #103
RE: Vague Topic,
Amaranthe,
02-Sep-06 11:20 AM, #12
RE: Vague Topic,
Isildur,
02-Sep-06 11:45 AM, #13
RE: Vague Topic,
Amaranthe,
02-Sep-06 02:45 PM, #14
RE: Vague Topic,
Eskelian,
31-Aug-06 08:07 PM, #7
From my blog eariler this month:,
Grurk Muouk,
31-Aug-06 08:17 AM, #1
RE: From my blog eariler this month:,
Isildur,
31-Aug-06 02:32 PM, #2
RE: From my blog eariler this month:,
Isildur,
02-Sep-06 04:15 PM, #15
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