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Top Non-CF Discussion "What Does RL Stand For?" Topic #151
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ValguarneraTue 12-Sep-06 11:37 PM
Member since 04th Mar 2003
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#330, "RE: Two words: Turing Test"


          

Any number of behavioral tests would prove intelligence without any attempt at communication. A being could show forethought, self-awareness, etc. without ever attempting to communicate, or even being aware that it was being observed. Conversely, machines can use language without being conscious. Doctors diagnose brain death (which permits them to harvest organs, withdraw life support, etc.) without any reference to communication. You're demanding an arbitrary distinction which isn't present in any of the usual definitions of intelligence or consciousness, and I'm not sure where you're getting it from.

People who lose the ability to communicate are not put to death. Why would the acquisition of the ability to communicate be the only proof of humanity?

Lastly, it is going to be human, therefore, you don't have the right to choose if it lives or dies.

A fetus could become a human some day, assuming it receives nutrition, the mother remains healthy, etc. That doesn't necessarily mean a fertilized egg is human, has human rights, etc. 1 second after the large cell engulfs the small cell, membranes dissolve or become porous, and their nucleic acids mix. It's definitely not the certainty you make pregnancy out to be.

Reproductive technology further complicates that line of reasoning. If I can mix DNA in vitro and (possibly years) later implant it in a viable egg, and possibly years after that implant the egg in a womb, at what point did that organic mass "become human"?

Also, I don't remember saying anything about contraception, but unless I'm confused about exactly how the morning after pill works (I admit I don't know) then I don't know of any contraception that would violate my position since none of them kill a life after it has been created.

In some cases, depending on how recent ovulation was, levonorgestrel ("Plan B") prevents pregnancy by preventing an already-fertilized egg from implanting in the womb. It's presently legal, and the opposition to its approval voiced to the FDA (beyond safety concerns, which were resolved through the standard tests) came on religious grounds, not scientific ones.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

  

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HOT Locked TopicObligatory. Politics. Discuss. n/t [View all] , Eskelian, Thu 31-Aug-06 02:30 AM
Reply Thread locked on account of sprawl., Valguarnera, 13-Sep-06 09:12 AM, #123
Reply This essey pretty much sums up my current world view., Odrirg, 03-Sep-06 01:27 AM, #16
Reply RE: Vitriol:, Valguarnera, 05-Sep-06 03:26 PM, #17
Reply RE: Vitriol:, DurNominator, 05-Sep-06 04:06 PM, #19
Reply Wow... just wow...., Tac, 05-Sep-06 03:57 PM, #18
Reply RE: Wow... just wow...., Valguarnera, 05-Sep-06 04:32 PM, #20
Reply Heh..., Tac, 05-Sep-06 04:37 PM, #21
Reply This is a Fallacious argument., (NOT Pro), 06-Sep-06 06:25 PM, #30
     Reply RE: "Mexican invasion", Valguarnera, 07-Sep-06 02:58 PM, #47
     Reply Why won't they legalize it?, Tac, 07-Sep-06 03:02 PM, #48
     Reply My take:, Valguarnera, 07-Sep-06 03:18 PM, #49
     Reply RE: Why won't they legalize it?, nepenthe, 07-Sep-06 03:27 PM, #50
     Reply RE: Why won't they legalize it?, Eskelian, 07-Sep-06 10:24 PM, #77
          Reply RE: Why won't they legalize it?, Eskelian, 07-Sep-06 10:33 PM, #78
               Reply We'll probably have to kill them all. nt, Aodh, 08-Sep-06 12:26 AM, #80
     Reply RE: Why won't they legalize it?, Isildur, 07-Sep-06 03:41 PM, #52
     Reply You pointed out the danger., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 04:32 PM, #55
     Reply RE: You pointed out the danger., nepenthe, 07-Sep-06 05:47 PM, #64
          Reply Uhm.. Geography., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 06:28 PM, #71
     Reply Don't marginalize the harm of it however., Eskelian, 07-Sep-06 10:18 PM, #76
          Reply RE: Don't marginalize the harm of it however., Muuloc, 08-Sep-06 01:40 AM, #83
               Reply Quick note on that:, Valguarnera, 08-Sep-06 08:55 AM, #84
               Reply RE: Quick note on that:, Eskelian, 08-Sep-06 09:01 AM, #86
               Reply Whoops., Valguarnera, 08-Sep-06 09:38 AM, #89
               Reply According to Darwyn, (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 10:16 AM, #94
               Reply Thats absurd., Eskelian, 08-Sep-06 08:55 AM, #85
               Reply RE: Don't marginalize the harm of it however., Isildur, 08-Sep-06 09:45 AM, #91
               Reply Completely rational., (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 10:17 AM, #95
               Reply 3.4% of our GNP goes to the military., (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 10:13 AM, #93
                    Reply Do you even know what a GNP is?, Valguarnera, 08-Sep-06 12:43 PM, #102
                         Reply Military R&D is 72B I think., (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 07:12 PM, #104
                              Reply Eventually, we'll be able to kill everyone! ~, Aodh, 08-Sep-06 09:18 PM, #107
     Reply RE: This is a Fallacious argument., Muuloc, 08-Sep-06 01:34 AM, #82
          Reply Why?, (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 10:18 AM, #96
Reply As a 17 year Veteran...., (NOT Pro), 06-Sep-06 06:04 PM, #29
     Reply RE: As a 17 year Veteran...., nepenthe, 06-Sep-06 11:07 PM, #34
     Reply RE: As a 17 year Veteran...., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 01:38 AM, #35
          Reply RE: As a 17 year Veteran...., nepenthe, 07-Sep-06 08:53 AM, #37
               Reply It's worth noting that:, Valguarnera, 07-Sep-06 11:04 AM, #40
                    Reply RE: It's worth noting that:, nepenthe, 07-Sep-06 01:28 PM, #41
                         Reply Question:, Tac, 07-Sep-06 02:02 PM, #42
                         Reply To me this is the equivilant of saying., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 02:09 PM, #44
                              Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., A2, 07-Sep-06 02:30 PM, #45
                              Reply Who once said it needed to be in a bubble? Anyone?, (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 04:35 PM, #56
                              Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., Tac, 07-Sep-06 02:59 PM, #46
                              Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., Isildur, 07-Sep-06 03:34 PM, #51
                              Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., Tac, 07-Sep-06 03:58 PM, #53
                              Reply The fair tax is a Great idea., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 04:40 PM, #59
                              Reply RE: The fair tax is a Great idea., Isildur, 07-Sep-06 04:58 PM, #62
                                   Reply Heh. nt, Wilhath, 07-Sep-06 06:11 PM, #69
                              Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., Isildur, 07-Sep-06 04:49 PM, #60
                                   Reply One dose of insanity...., Tac, 07-Sep-06 05:49 PM, #65
                              Reply 30 Million Illegals in 10 years., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 04:39 PM, #58
                                   Reply RE: 30 Million Illegals in 10 years., Isildur, 07-Sep-06 05:08 PM, #63
                                        Reply It grew., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 08:06 PM, #72
                              Reply I think we should stop ALL immigration, (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 04:37 PM, #57
                              Reply So can we deport you?, Tac, 07-Sep-06 05:51 PM, #67
                              Reply RE: I think we should stop ALL immigration, Eskelian, 07-Sep-06 10:00 PM, #75
                                   Reply Where I think a lot of you misunderstand me is here...., (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 10:09 AM, #92
                              Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., Eskelian, 07-Sep-06 09:58 PM, #74
                              Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., Eshval, 13-Sep-06 12:55 AM, #118
                                   Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., Valkenar, 13-Sep-06 08:39 AM, #120
                         Reply It's worth noting also that I got seriously ####ed up o..., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 02:05 PM, #43
                              Reply Wait till they slash your benefits. ~ (Blackbird), Aodh, 07-Sep-06 06:26 PM, #70
                                   Reply They keep increasing mine., (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 10:19 AM, #97
     Reply A quote..., Barduin, 07-Sep-06 04:02 PM, #54
Reply Patriotism is hilarious, Valkenar, 05-Sep-06 05:29 PM, #22
Reply RE: This essey pretty much sums up my current world vie..., nepenthe, 05-Sep-06 05:59 PM, #23
Reply Losing would be allowing OUR government to become like ..., TheLastMohican, 05-Sep-06 08:04 PM, #24
Reply devil's advocate question for the peanut gallery. txt, Isildur, 06-Sep-06 04:08 PM, #25
Reply RE: devil's advocate question for the peanut gallery. t..., Tac, 06-Sep-06 04:56 PM, #26
Reply I wrote out this whole long thing that the forum ate..., Wilhath, 06-Sep-06 05:36 PM, #28
Reply RE: devil's advocate, Valguarnera, 06-Sep-06 05:25 PM, #27
     Reply RE: devil's advocate, (NOT Pro), 06-Sep-06 09:48 PM, #31
     Reply No offense Valg, but Pro will never learn., TheLastMohican, 06-Sep-06 10:36 PM, #32
          Reply Sure he will...., Tac, 06-Sep-06 10:43 PM, #33
          Reply It is a bad topic for this board., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 01:54 AM, #36
               Reply RE: It is a bad topic for this board., Isildur, 07-Sep-06 10:25 AM, #39
               Reply RE: It is a bad topic for this board., Valkenar, 07-Sep-06 04:53 PM, #61
               Reply LAUGH!, (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 07:20 PM, #105
               Reply Seek counseling., Valguarnera, 07-Sep-06 05:50 PM, #66
                    Reply *edit*, Wilhath, 07-Sep-06 06:05 PM, #68
     Reply RE: devil's advocate, Isildur, 07-Sep-06 10:20 AM, #38
Reply RE: This essey pretty much sums up my current world vie..., Muuloc, 08-Sep-06 01:30 AM, #81
Reply Vague Topic, Amaranthe, 31-Aug-06 03:39 PM, #3
Reply RE: Vague Topic, Grurk Muouk, 31-Aug-06 03:53 PM, #4
Reply RE: Vague Topic, nepenthe, 31-Aug-06 05:50 PM, #5
Reply RE: Vague Topic, Amaranthe, 31-Aug-06 06:52 PM, #6
Reply RE: Vague Topic, Eskelian, 31-Aug-06 08:08 PM, #8
Reply RE: Vague Topic, Isildur, 01-Sep-06 10:56 AM, #9
     Reply RE: Vague Topic, Eskelian, 01-Sep-06 05:11 PM, #10
     Reply RE: Vague Topic, Isildur, 01-Sep-06 11:54 PM, #11
          Reply RE: Vague Topic, Eskelian, 07-Sep-06 09:50 PM, #73
               Reply RE: Vague Topic, nepenthe, 07-Sep-06 11:04 PM, #79
               Reply Bingo. n/t, Eskelian, 08-Sep-06 09:04 AM, #87
               Reply RE: Vague Topic, Tac, 08-Sep-06 09:15 AM, #88
               Reply RE: Vague Topic, nepenthe, 08-Sep-06 10:49 AM, #99
                    Reply They *are* seperate issues, Tac, 08-Sep-06 11:42 AM, #100
                         Reply RE: They *are* seperate issues, nepenthe, 08-Sep-06 07:28 PM, #106
                              Reply I gotta ask, Minyar, 12-Sep-06 01:37 PM, #108
                                   Reply I've been meaning to respond to this.... (Nepenthe's), Tac, 12-Sep-06 02:43 PM, #109
                                   Reply RE: I've been meaning to respond to this.... (Nepenthe'..., nepenthe, 12-Sep-06 03:48 PM, #111
                                        Reply RE: I've been meaning to respond to this.... (Nepenthe'..., Tac, 12-Sep-06 04:30 PM, #112
                                             Reply RE: I've been meaning to respond to this.... (Nepenthe'..., nepenthe, 12-Sep-06 05:41 PM, #113
                                                  Reply Come on now Nep, Minyar, 12-Sep-06 05:58 PM, #114
                                                       Reply Except:, Valguarnera, 12-Sep-06 08:59 PM, #115
                                                            Reply Two words: Turing Test, Tac, 12-Sep-06 09:19 PM, #116
                                                            Reply RE: Two words: Turing Test, Valguarnera, 12-Sep-06 11:37 PM #117
                                                            Reply RE: Two words: Turing Test, Tac, 13-Sep-06 08:47 AM, #121
                                                            Reply RE: Two words: Turing Test, Valkenar, 13-Sep-06 09:05 AM, #122
                                   Reply RE: I gotta ask, nepenthe, 12-Sep-06 03:22 PM, #110
               Reply The problem is Choice, Nepenthe, wretchedmongrel, 13-Sep-06 02:43 AM, #119
               Reply RE: Vague Topic, Isildur, 08-Sep-06 09:38 AM, #90
                    Reply RE: Vague Topic, nepenthe, 08-Sep-06 10:40 AM, #98
                         Reply According to wikipedia...., Tac, 08-Sep-06 11:46 AM, #101
                         Reply RE: Vague Topic, Isildur, 08-Sep-06 12:42 PM, #103
     Reply RE: Vague Topic, Amaranthe, 02-Sep-06 11:20 AM, #12
          Reply RE: Vague Topic, Isildur, 02-Sep-06 11:45 AM, #13
               Reply RE: Vague Topic, Amaranthe, 02-Sep-06 02:45 PM, #14
Reply RE: Vague Topic, Eskelian, 31-Aug-06 08:07 PM, #7
Reply From my blog eariler this month:, Grurk Muouk, 31-Aug-06 08:17 AM, #1
     Reply RE: From my blog eariler this month:, Isildur, 31-Aug-06 02:32 PM, #2
          Reply RE: From my blog eariler this month:, Isildur, 02-Sep-06 04:15 PM, #15
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