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Top Non-CF Discussion "What Does RL Stand For?" Topic #151
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TacFri 08-Sep-06 11:42 AM
Member since 15th Nov 2005
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#284, "They *are* seperate issues"


          

Defending the right of a child to live is wholly seperate from defending the right of a violent criminal to live. By choosing not to live by society's rules, a violent criminal has chose he is not a part of that society. An unborn child has not made any such choice.

It isn't at all like caterpillars and butterflies. If you are saying every aborted child would grow up to be a violent criminal so they and we are better off if they are aborted... Well that is just plain stupid. A newborn child has nearly unlimited possibilities. Even some of the most neglected and uncared for children have grown up to be great people. Your lot in life is not wholly dependant on who your parents are and what their situation is like.

To paraphase:

Violent criminal: Makes choice to break laws that carry the punishment of death -> Chooses to die.

Unborn child: No choices made, Infinite possibilities for their life and contributions -> No one gets to choose to murder them.

Honestly, I could easily construe your statement, that since old people nearly always die slow torturous deaths, people should be euthanized at the age of 60. If a child that *may* die such a death is better off dead, then an old person who *will* die such a death is certainly better off dead.

And since I'm not willing to toss the whole issue of a fetus to a child. Please explain to me how you can deteremine when a child is a child. Does exiting the womb change the fundamental nature of the fetus such that it then magically becomes a child? If I take a ball out of a paper bag was it something else when it was in the bag? If cognitive thought is the requirement, well that doesn't happen till well after birth, and there is almost no way to prove cognition without speach, so we'll just wait till a child talks, but any time before that we can kill it. Sounds fine to me, before that they're just animals. If you say it's "part of the woman's body" so she should be able to do with it what she wants, well that isn't true either. A fertalized egg is no more part of a woman's body than sperm is. It might be *in* her body, but it sure as hell doesn't have to be. Yes, a child cannot grow outside a womb (currently) but that womb can be nearly anyones, and it is really no different than the fact that humans are born completely without the ability to survive on their own, so that pushes the killing point sometime after birth again.

Feel free to ignore this last tirade, but I'd really like to know how you can rationally equate killing unborn children and killing violent criminals as non seperate issues. It seriously boggles my mind.

  

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HOT Locked TopicObligatory. Politics. Discuss. n/t [View all] , Eskelian, Thu 31-Aug-06 02:30 AM
Reply Thread locked on account of sprawl., Valguarnera, 13-Sep-06 09:12 AM, #123
Reply This essey pretty much sums up my current world view., Odrirg, 03-Sep-06 01:27 AM, #16
Reply RE: Vitriol:, Valguarnera, 05-Sep-06 03:26 PM, #17
Reply RE: Vitriol:, DurNominator, 05-Sep-06 04:06 PM, #19
Reply Wow... just wow...., Tac, 05-Sep-06 03:57 PM, #18
Reply RE: Wow... just wow...., Valguarnera, 05-Sep-06 04:32 PM, #20
Reply Heh..., Tac, 05-Sep-06 04:37 PM, #21
Reply This is a Fallacious argument., (NOT Pro), 06-Sep-06 06:25 PM, #30
     Reply RE: "Mexican invasion", Valguarnera, 07-Sep-06 02:58 PM, #47
     Reply Why won't they legalize it?, Tac, 07-Sep-06 03:02 PM, #48
     Reply My take:, Valguarnera, 07-Sep-06 03:18 PM, #49
     Reply RE: Why won't they legalize it?, nepenthe, 07-Sep-06 03:27 PM, #50
     Reply RE: Why won't they legalize it?, Eskelian, 07-Sep-06 10:24 PM, #77
          Reply RE: Why won't they legalize it?, Eskelian, 07-Sep-06 10:33 PM, #78
               Reply We'll probably have to kill them all. nt, Aodh, 08-Sep-06 12:26 AM, #80
     Reply RE: Why won't they legalize it?, Isildur, 07-Sep-06 03:41 PM, #52
     Reply You pointed out the danger., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 04:32 PM, #55
     Reply RE: You pointed out the danger., nepenthe, 07-Sep-06 05:47 PM, #64
          Reply Uhm.. Geography., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 06:28 PM, #71
     Reply Don't marginalize the harm of it however., Eskelian, 07-Sep-06 10:18 PM, #76
          Reply RE: Don't marginalize the harm of it however., Muuloc, 08-Sep-06 01:40 AM, #83
               Reply Quick note on that:, Valguarnera, 08-Sep-06 08:55 AM, #84
               Reply RE: Quick note on that:, Eskelian, 08-Sep-06 09:01 AM, #86
               Reply Whoops., Valguarnera, 08-Sep-06 09:38 AM, #89
               Reply According to Darwyn, (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 10:16 AM, #94
               Reply Thats absurd., Eskelian, 08-Sep-06 08:55 AM, #85
               Reply RE: Don't marginalize the harm of it however., Isildur, 08-Sep-06 09:45 AM, #91
               Reply Completely rational., (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 10:17 AM, #95
               Reply 3.4% of our GNP goes to the military., (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 10:13 AM, #93
                    Reply Do you even know what a GNP is?, Valguarnera, 08-Sep-06 12:43 PM, #102
                         Reply Military R&D is 72B I think., (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 07:12 PM, #104
                              Reply Eventually, we'll be able to kill everyone! ~, Aodh, 08-Sep-06 09:18 PM, #107
     Reply RE: This is a Fallacious argument., Muuloc, 08-Sep-06 01:34 AM, #82
          Reply Why?, (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 10:18 AM, #96
Reply As a 17 year Veteran...., (NOT Pro), 06-Sep-06 06:04 PM, #29
     Reply RE: As a 17 year Veteran...., nepenthe, 06-Sep-06 11:07 PM, #34
     Reply RE: As a 17 year Veteran...., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 01:38 AM, #35
          Reply RE: As a 17 year Veteran...., nepenthe, 07-Sep-06 08:53 AM, #37
               Reply It's worth noting that:, Valguarnera, 07-Sep-06 11:04 AM, #40
                    Reply RE: It's worth noting that:, nepenthe, 07-Sep-06 01:28 PM, #41
                         Reply Question:, Tac, 07-Sep-06 02:02 PM, #42
                         Reply To me this is the equivilant of saying., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 02:09 PM, #44
                              Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., A2, 07-Sep-06 02:30 PM, #45
                              Reply Who once said it needed to be in a bubble? Anyone?, (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 04:35 PM, #56
                              Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., Tac, 07-Sep-06 02:59 PM, #46
                              Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., Isildur, 07-Sep-06 03:34 PM, #51
                              Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., Tac, 07-Sep-06 03:58 PM, #53
                              Reply The fair tax is a Great idea., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 04:40 PM, #59
                              Reply RE: The fair tax is a Great idea., Isildur, 07-Sep-06 04:58 PM, #62
                                   Reply Heh. nt, Wilhath, 07-Sep-06 06:11 PM, #69
                              Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., Isildur, 07-Sep-06 04:49 PM, #60
                                   Reply One dose of insanity...., Tac, 07-Sep-06 05:49 PM, #65
                              Reply 30 Million Illegals in 10 years., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 04:39 PM, #58
                                   Reply RE: 30 Million Illegals in 10 years., Isildur, 07-Sep-06 05:08 PM, #63
                                        Reply It grew., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 08:06 PM, #72
                              Reply I think we should stop ALL immigration, (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 04:37 PM, #57
                              Reply So can we deport you?, Tac, 07-Sep-06 05:51 PM, #67
                              Reply RE: I think we should stop ALL immigration, Eskelian, 07-Sep-06 10:00 PM, #75
                                   Reply Where I think a lot of you misunderstand me is here...., (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 10:09 AM, #92
                              Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., Eskelian, 07-Sep-06 09:58 PM, #74
                              Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., Eshval, 13-Sep-06 12:55 AM, #118
                                   Reply RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying., Valkenar, 13-Sep-06 08:39 AM, #120
                         Reply It's worth noting also that I got seriously ####ed up o..., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 02:05 PM, #43
                              Reply Wait till they slash your benefits. ~ (Blackbird), Aodh, 07-Sep-06 06:26 PM, #70
                                   Reply They keep increasing mine., (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 10:19 AM, #97
     Reply A quote..., Barduin, 07-Sep-06 04:02 PM, #54
Reply Patriotism is hilarious, Valkenar, 05-Sep-06 05:29 PM, #22
Reply RE: This essey pretty much sums up my current world vie..., nepenthe, 05-Sep-06 05:59 PM, #23
Reply Losing would be allowing OUR government to become like ..., TheLastMohican, 05-Sep-06 08:04 PM, #24
Reply devil's advocate question for the peanut gallery. txt, Isildur, 06-Sep-06 04:08 PM, #25
Reply RE: devil's advocate question for the peanut gallery. t..., Tac, 06-Sep-06 04:56 PM, #26
Reply I wrote out this whole long thing that the forum ate..., Wilhath, 06-Sep-06 05:36 PM, #28
Reply RE: devil's advocate, Valguarnera, 06-Sep-06 05:25 PM, #27
     Reply RE: devil's advocate, (NOT Pro), 06-Sep-06 09:48 PM, #31
     Reply No offense Valg, but Pro will never learn., TheLastMohican, 06-Sep-06 10:36 PM, #32
          Reply Sure he will...., Tac, 06-Sep-06 10:43 PM, #33
          Reply It is a bad topic for this board., (NOT Pro), 07-Sep-06 01:54 AM, #36
               Reply RE: It is a bad topic for this board., Isildur, 07-Sep-06 10:25 AM, #39
               Reply RE: It is a bad topic for this board., Valkenar, 07-Sep-06 04:53 PM, #61
               Reply LAUGH!, (NOT Pro), 08-Sep-06 07:20 PM, #105
               Reply Seek counseling., Valguarnera, 07-Sep-06 05:50 PM, #66
                    Reply *edit*, Wilhath, 07-Sep-06 06:05 PM, #68
     Reply RE: devil's advocate, Isildur, 07-Sep-06 10:20 AM, #38
Reply RE: This essey pretty much sums up my current world vie..., Muuloc, 08-Sep-06 01:30 AM, #81
Reply Vague Topic, Amaranthe, 31-Aug-06 03:39 PM, #3
Reply RE: Vague Topic, Grurk Muouk, 31-Aug-06 03:53 PM, #4
Reply RE: Vague Topic, nepenthe, 31-Aug-06 05:50 PM, #5
Reply RE: Vague Topic, Amaranthe, 31-Aug-06 06:52 PM, #6
Reply RE: Vague Topic, Eskelian, 31-Aug-06 08:08 PM, #8
Reply RE: Vague Topic, Isildur, 01-Sep-06 10:56 AM, #9
     Reply RE: Vague Topic, Eskelian, 01-Sep-06 05:11 PM, #10
     Reply RE: Vague Topic, Isildur, 01-Sep-06 11:54 PM, #11
          Reply RE: Vague Topic, Eskelian, 07-Sep-06 09:50 PM, #73
               Reply RE: Vague Topic, nepenthe, 07-Sep-06 11:04 PM, #79
               Reply Bingo. n/t, Eskelian, 08-Sep-06 09:04 AM, #87
               Reply RE: Vague Topic, Tac, 08-Sep-06 09:15 AM, #88
               Reply RE: Vague Topic, nepenthe, 08-Sep-06 10:49 AM, #99
                    Reply They *are* seperate issues, Tac, 08-Sep-06 11:42 AM #100
                         Reply RE: They *are* seperate issues, nepenthe, 08-Sep-06 07:28 PM, #106
                              Reply I gotta ask, Minyar, 12-Sep-06 01:37 PM, #108
                                   Reply I've been meaning to respond to this.... (Nepenthe's), Tac, 12-Sep-06 02:43 PM, #109
                                   Reply RE: I've been meaning to respond to this.... (Nepenthe'..., nepenthe, 12-Sep-06 03:48 PM, #111
                                        Reply RE: I've been meaning to respond to this.... (Nepenthe'..., Tac, 12-Sep-06 04:30 PM, #112
                                             Reply RE: I've been meaning to respond to this.... (Nepenthe'..., nepenthe, 12-Sep-06 05:41 PM, #113
                                                  Reply Come on now Nep, Minyar, 12-Sep-06 05:58 PM, #114
                                                       Reply Except:, Valguarnera, 12-Sep-06 08:59 PM, #115
                                                            Reply Two words: Turing Test, Tac, 12-Sep-06 09:19 PM, #116
                                                            Reply RE: Two words: Turing Test, Valguarnera, 12-Sep-06 11:37 PM, #117
                                                            Reply RE: Two words: Turing Test, Tac, 13-Sep-06 08:47 AM, #121
                                                            Reply RE: Two words: Turing Test, Valkenar, 13-Sep-06 09:05 AM, #122
                                   Reply RE: I gotta ask, nepenthe, 12-Sep-06 03:22 PM, #110
               Reply The problem is Choice, Nepenthe, wretchedmongrel, 13-Sep-06 02:43 AM, #119
               Reply RE: Vague Topic, Isildur, 08-Sep-06 09:38 AM, #90
                    Reply RE: Vague Topic, nepenthe, 08-Sep-06 10:40 AM, #98
                         Reply According to wikipedia...., Tac, 08-Sep-06 11:46 AM, #101
                         Reply RE: Vague Topic, Isildur, 08-Sep-06 12:42 PM, #103
     Reply RE: Vague Topic, Amaranthe, 02-Sep-06 11:20 AM, #12
          Reply RE: Vague Topic, Isildur, 02-Sep-06 11:45 AM, #13
               Reply RE: Vague Topic, Amaranthe, 02-Sep-06 02:45 PM, #14
Reply RE: Vague Topic, Eskelian, 31-Aug-06 08:07 PM, #7
Reply From my blog eariler this month:, Grurk Muouk, 31-Aug-06 08:17 AM, #1
     Reply RE: From my blog eariler this month:, Isildur, 31-Aug-06 02:32 PM, #2
          Reply RE: From my blog eariler this month:, Isildur, 02-Sep-06 04:15 PM, #15
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