Everything aside with what just went down with Loshnak, I would like some Immortals and other players to chime in about the area and clearly layout intent with dealings of the Inferno - rules around it and facing some of it's problems.

Hell has always been the biggest challenge in Carrionfields. It's the paramount of PvE and has a huge scale of difficulty that doesn't get much easier with knowledge. With that said, it's also one of the largest areas in the game and has reportedly had roughly half of it never seen by anyone so far since most people bee-line to Satan for the tattoo. On average, trips can take five to seven hours (depending on your luck and preparation of gathering things beforehand) and takes around seven people to cover all the roles unless you're walking in with Cabdru/Ravon/etc....and that's just to get through, not including mobs being killed beyond the fifth circle. It also requires a huge amount of outside-Inferno preparation with weapons that mobs aren't immune to, nodisarm ones for the tanks, saves gear, explore edges, preps, etc. Any mistake or lack of complete knowledge along the way means you will likely die and have to start from the beginning - this all goes along with parts like deathtraps without any warning, several mobs who instant kill easily, and items that can permanently screw your character forever for just trying them on (like setting your wisdom to 15 or turning you evil). There's no "save points". It's Hell and a huge amount of fun despite this.

Now, the Inferno has always been Sacer's "baby" and because of that it hasn't been touched because of this fact. Annoyances with seeds/coins, things requiring copper and not taking silver/gold, several bugs and general heartaches haven't been altered because of this. A great example of this would be my request for several years that the area not have a chance to turn you evil at certain parts so neutral and goodies can explore it (or at least an alternative...every Santa Zulg I ask)...but it's left in that way. This area is also one of the oldest in Thera and was balanced around such - when evil healers weren't a joke and there was a playerbase to compensate the group size requirements that doesn't really exist anymore. Also a lot of us were a lot younger, without kids and work responsibility so we could invest huge time sinks into it without worry....and back then OOC groups were actually more rampant, including the infamous and ironic all-Immortal hell group to reach Satan.

Now despite all this, the Immortals are clearly against people making characters around this or attempting to coordinate so this place can be explored. I just got a character denied for doing such. The best comparison I've heard made is that it's like a WoW raid mixed with Fight Club where you can't plan ahead and talk about it - it just has to fall together somehow IC. More than a few Immortals have voiced wanting to remove the area because of the ooc nature it brings to the game (like saying "meet me at 8pm in the gods time", saying "I'm meditating" so you can take a piss break sometime during the 7 hour ordeal or splitting gold coins to get copper down there) or explaining why Satan is chewing on Brutus and other such mobs that don't fit the story of the game.....but quite honestly I think this area kind of defines CF "end-game" and would be a huge mistake to remove.

So then where's the balance? Inline with several other changes lately that have tried to bring the "fun" of CF to the forefront, what about this area? Since Sacer is back and may give the go ahead for some changes, will it be changed for the times so it's possible without OOC use or 200 charges Anti-paladins or is it just going to be left as is? I'm going to go as far to say that it's borderline impossible to get enough people, for those time lengths, in the same timezone, that aren't enemies, that are the right classes, that have enough skill to accomplish anything more than basic gear gathering on the first few circles and beelines to Satan if you're lucky. Considering I've been either the leader or a member of almost every successful trip to Satan in the last few years I've got the experience to say that...and every one of them had some amount of OOC and most had some planning like players filling the gaps and making required classes since there were none at hero when other roles can just be found normally (warriors/bards/shifters).

The Immortals have said that it's ok to know people who play the game but not to abuse it or use it to an advantage against others. Sometimes it allowed to slide, other times it's not. PK gangbangs, cabal groups, item transfers and everything else aside it seems that Inferno trip exploring is now joining this restriction and I really wish it wasn't. Despite efforts to specifically follow the rules and explore the Inferno with friends this time around it seems not possible and frowned upon.

So what's going to happen then, if anything? If you disagree I'd love to honestly hear why and discuss it out. Considering I didn't get much of a say in Loshnak's denial, I'd like to at least have a discussion about this area.