To a generally bleh sort of character.

I rolled Waris purely with the intent to get to 36 and work my way up to 40 or so and see if I could somehow squeeze lightning control out without making my entire pk range utterly despise me.

I'm pretty sure I failed on both, reaching cold, but not even half way to lightning I don't think...
I blame eshval for being forced into hero =P jk? not really?

My roleplay, I enjoyed waris's speech and attitude but overall as much effort as I dumped into his role, I didn't really get anything out of it. I could have probably stuck with 1 chapter and had about the same RP.

Race choice, in the end. I really hated that I'd gone duergar. Great in the thirties and fourties at hero it was just a chore having to prep a bit harder just to compensate for my vuln.


Sort of general explanation of blehness.
I rolled this character up to just sort of #### around on a bet with my roommate > Lighting before 41 as a duergar. Sad to say roommate died, sort of got stuck on the character. So for atleast a good while in the middle there, I had a really ####ty attutide. Sorry to anyone I might have lashed out at with all that..

Gankyness. Eh, you play a duergar AP with this ridiculous of a balance tip and get a axe this big.
This object, the seven flurries of Anguish can be referred to as 'flail seven flurries anguish coil energy'.
It is worth 55000 copper, and is of the 55th level of power.
It is made of energy and weighs 5 pounds 6 ounces.
It is imbued with a terrible, unholy blessing.
It can cause 11d4 points of damage, at average 27.
When worn, it affects your damage roll by 81 points, your hit roll by 81 points,
your hp by 930 points and your mana by 930 points.

Especially sans-perma, sans-immortal knowledge of gear and areas most don't even have a inkling of, and finally the last big ap sans-broken skill + lightning control.
Till then, my gank-o-meter is really just a mark on a scale no one will bother trying to hit.


Immortals
Sort of a mix bag of nuts here.
I had some really awesome interactions, Enlilth and Beroxxus in particular come to mind. And even a few civil, direct human interactions from an immortals when dealing with various bugs and things. To those imms who took the time to be objective with me and treat me like a human, I'm grateful you guys put up with our crap and don't resort to shoveling it. Hats off

The bad, the short of it was. I got grief for some pretty laughable stuff, blindfolds. Hah. I was also part of some of the most hienous interactions I've ever experienced, that can really only be described as a old Elvira cartoon.

Yes, I had some really horrible prays I sent up, 70% of them were meh. There were definatly some justified ones, and even a few more crappy ones I got a civil response from. For that 70% of crap, I'm sorry. Not that you could have probably put a cork in a certain imms mouth and canned a good part of those prays but hey, its all done now.
We both have learned our lessons I'd hope.


Anyway onto goodbyes.
I know now that I will miss alot of people, to those I miss reply.

Scion: Lots of you guys really, tons even though the cabal was pretty small, good number of very memorable chars.

Igbah Just wow. What a shadow to stand in.

Kharnial first sort of thought you'd just be "there" glad to see you not only proved my intial thoughts wrong but rocked face and generally held your own.

Lezra Heh. What can I say? strong form combo

Wannabies: I was pretty straightforward with my inductions, I hope I was clear to everyone I rejected as to why exactly I turned them down.

Other various scions, tons of you. My memory is horrible and a ways to go.

Fort

Iltanthal I don't really understand at times why you were quite as cautious as you were vs me but the damage I dished vs how rarely I hit you made it difficult to gauge if I was winning sometimes you speckled pill guzzling fool =P

Paladins, Lots of you. Some really stuck out, like Llondathas who despite being outmatched would dig up help and throw down with me anyway, I still think I was closer to dying that time than most give credit. Others fade into obscurity. All in all. I really hated retribution and light of heavens.

Humbert, No really. I had 7 charges that day. And yes, that item is stupid OP yes they have definatly tweaked it since I got it but its still stupid OP.

Village

Djabree Dhaath quite a few others I fail to remember at the moment. Good strong villagers, I didn't often really expect a fight, and atleast in the begining you guys were willing to test the waters despite posts stating I had 100 charges

Outlander

Ah, a cabal so bleh I couldn't even begin to describe its blehness.

Trib

I tended to not break the law too much, or press my limits. Though Waris was never afraid to demonstrate that he could and would take the scales if pressed.

A few names come to mind but I can only really say something to Fendril right now. Damn dude, I wish I was half as willing to say #### it and throw down. Maybe on something that isn't a AP.

Empire

Empress we had a strange relationship in the low ranks. And at hero. Despite what some say you were aggressive, sorry for not playing but only having 3 usuable skills really turned me off from duking it out.

rest of Empire, I can understand being afraid of me, but everyone else? =(

Herald,

Heh, I'm sure I've got some immortal hate for killing you guys, but Waris tried to make it pretty clear. He'd wax you if you stood in his way in killing fort, but otherwise he'd happily leave you be.


Uncabaleds,
So many of you guys talked to me. Looking for tidbits to explore to just RP. I'm glad atleast some people could realise despite waris being a abrasive, greedy soulsucking duergar. He always wanted to explore.

Why delete? Why not?

Everyone is coming across as childish and, in reality, I'm sure none of you are children.

Let's move on.

Players:
To those of you whom I might have accused of being cowardly then turned tail and chose the easy route myself. Yup I was a wuss with this character, but I try and play every one of them different. If I ever bother with another AP again. Trust me I'll be just as conservitive.

Immortals:
Yup I said some hateful ####, Yup I sent up some damn annoying prayers. I am sorry I let my anger and frustration get to me and I brought it up at all. Baiting me and treating me like #### probably didn't help, but in the end its a vicious circle.
I've stood back and watched alot of #### playout and generally tried to just stay out of it, this time I should have probably just stood aloof like I usually do.
To the objective few of you, sorry you even had to read this garbage. You guys invest alot of time in this game, but so do the players. Don't be so suprised when someone gets frustrated.

Players:
To those of you whom I might have accused of being cowardly then turned tail and chose the easy route myself. Yup I was a wuss with this character, but I try and play every one of them different. If I ever bother with another AP again. Trust me I'll be just as conservitive.

It's one thing to play it safe.

The major issue with Waris was that he talked an entirely different style, and loudly berated other people (IC and OOC, via prays and forums) for even the slightest departure from your idea of perfect bravery and class. Given the methods you used, it wasn't a roleplay gimmick-- it didn't match your stated intentions, and obviously the attitude on the forums (and the OOC prays, etc.) has nothing to do with that. There have been much tougher characters IC who displayed a lot more class OOC, and their Battlefield threads tend to show it.

So it's less a play style choice than a temper problem. Enough with the revisionist history.


Immortals:
Yup I said some hateful ####, Yup I sent up some damn annoying prayers. I am sorry I let my anger and frustration get to me and I brought it up at all. Baiting me and treating me like #### probably didn't help, but in the end its a vicious circle.
I've stood back and watched alot of #### playout and generally tried to just stay out of it, this time I should have probably just stood aloof like I usually do.
To the objective few of you, sorry you even had to read this garbage. You guys invest alot of time in this game, but so do the players. Don't be so suprised when someone gets frustrated.

I hope Twist and Corrlaan saved the logs of you flipping out on them, because they would be... illustrative. Basically, if you start by cursing out each person who answers your ridiculous prays, it shouldn't surprise you that no one wants to talk to you afterwards. Any Immortal can check the pray logs, so you can safely assume that after several dozen completely obnoxious prays, whoever is last to call "Not it!" after you pray isn't going to be in a good mood about being stuck talking to you.

My opinion is that you reaped 1/10 of what you sowed, and yet complained the loudest of all parties. And yet, there were no real IC consequences. No sympathy here.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Kudos.

Hard to see responses like this at times.

nt

Waris and I d idn't interact much. You caught me that one time in Silver Tower which sucked. I tried fighting you a few times, but I could last longer against the lich than against you. Uber strong char and good job with that. I didn't see the other stuff, so I can't comment. I like Guy chars, but man you do tend to tick of Imms somehow. I think the advice is right, take a break for a bit, travel some. I've never lost my BF, but I have lost a brother and father, and I understand the pain. Words don't mean much in that time, and honestly, we all have to figure it out for ourselves. Good luck man.

Be honest. Did you think I was the Vanquisher?

There was only one time I messed with you and it was by way of echo. You had recently prayed about someone acting like a wuss...Seyriannia if I remember correctly, and then you acted like a wuss yourself. My whole point was that if you were going to call someone out on acting like that, expect to be called out as well. Do I think that being conservative is okay for an AP? Sure, at times. But, not for the AP who is calling, by way of an ooc pray, someone else a wuss.

I could go into a tirade about all the bad that I saw. But, the other imms covered most of it very well. I will leave on this note. Waris was one of the worst characters of the past five years. Comparing him to a successful AP would be a slight to ALL APs. It was that bad.

Seems like to there are imms that don't want Waris playing the game.

Waris - Might be a good idea to either quit or take a long overdue break. Reflect on your life (especially with your ex-roomate's circumstances) and go freaking travel. Get out of your room and leave the computer alone. Go enjoy yourself.

My 2 cents.

No. Take away all of the crap that this guy did, and he would be a good player. It's just that the crap was so thick, it's almost impossible to see the good.

And you know what it's like to be liked for doing a good job. Imagine taking Kharnial and adding 100 OOC whiny and bitching prays and come across as the guy who complains about a coward and then acts the coward himself. Do you think you would have gotten where you got?

My previous post was mostly for Waris. Working at a law firm, I know how frustrating it is dealing with pissants (not saying Waris is). Mostly for him, he probably needs to chill down and take it easy for a while. Obviously the game is stressing him out more.

As much as I don't think that some of the posts the imms make are appropriate given that you guys are the admins for the game, I'm sure your annoyance is at least halfway justified.

Dealing with you and your characters makes me wonder at times why I play cf.

That's the point. You weren't dealing with me or any of my characters. I didn't want anything to do with you after the hypocrisy.

...then why the #### are you trashing him, repeatedly? He run over your dog or something?

And why are you baiting him? Are you 15? Grow the #### up.

I heard and read nearly 100 of the most asinine prayers of all time. That's why. Just because I didn't interact with him doesn't mean I didn't have to listen to his complete and utter line of crap for months. That's why. This isn't baiting him. This is a fact of what he was.

Good to see you validate all the bitching though. You really are a jerk.

Vindicated in the respect of coming to make amends. Clearly I was wasting my time, clearly you just want to be a asshole.

Pretty sure I only accused you of being an asshole to me twice as waris.
Both times you've already owned up to...


I see it alot like this,

Was I a jerk for making unneeded and annoying prays, sure. Did I go beyond some whiney and annoying prays? Nah, I didn't full sac noobs, or send long hilarous and obnoxious OOC tells. I didn't go beyond, saying some nasty and unneeded stuff.



Sure, I as a player hate your almost OOC echos. And generally find myself disliking about half of the people you chose to tattoo. Do I drag it up every chance I get, parading your retarded flame posts, parading your mistakes? Nah.


You read those prayers and things, yet as much as you hated my character you snooped me anyway did someone strap you in? You could have easily ignored this character.
I am fairly certain I only accused you of one wonderful interaction which you fessed up to.
You've admitted to atleast one of the worst immortal immeractions I've ever had in the time I've played this game. You intentionally bait me on death threads, in a most childish way.

I'm really at a loss for words, I step up and apoligize for playing a frustrating char and all I get is bitterness hate and childish baiting.

And you were told that if you got rid of those annoying things, you would be a good player. It is my job to snoop everyone at points to make sure they aren't doing things crooked. Yes, I was the one that saw the blindfold thing and found it to be a bug. But, before you got sent to the realm to have a chat, I was the one who brought it to all of the 58+ imms to make sure that it was handled properly. You didn't get the slay/purge. You were asked, nicely I might add, not to abuse bugs even if they haven't been fixed. You are the one who made it seem like if you didn't get an immediate response or a fix about something that it meant open game for abuse. In the realm, you came across as the ass, not the one who spoke to you.

The problem with your apology is that it came across as fake. You basically created this huge pile of crap and planted some flowers around it to try to make it not smell as bad.

Perfect Waris deletion thread?

Guys, I am sorry for this character, I was a jerk. There were personal problems because of a friend dying. I am not going to comment on myself or what I thought. I was playing through fogged lenses.

Goodbyes to those of you I interacted with....

Don't come across as the victim here. What you seem to forget is that 90% of what we, as imms, saw from you came through your prayers. We don't snoop everyone all day. Now, if 90% of your interactions with another player was from those types of prayers, how would you react? We are playing too and we, just like you guys, don't like having to hear inane ooc tells from another player. Now, imagine that same player sending 100 of them to you.

I haven't heard one imm knock you for your IC stuff aside from calling the kettle black. Nobody said you took your ooc stuff ic.

Nobody was happy when Nightshade passed away. I know you were closest to him. But, for imms like me who judge each character separately to keep parity lines clean, I had no idea who you were or what was going on. It wasn't until you were over 400 hours old before I found out that you were Guy. And even then, I didn't know your affiliation with Nightshade. It wasn't until this deletion thread that I figured out who Guy even was.

I'm a big fan of the supposed player "Guy".

Having said that, I saw somewhere where you posted something along the lines of playing a successful duergar AP.

Duergar AP's are not terrible to play, BUT being a Scion makes it MORE than viable. I just wanted to address that Scion powers make it so much easier to play an AP or a Necro.

I REALLY enjoyed it with all three.

Deiea:
As Deiha I really enjoyed runing around with you, I learned a BUNCH of stuff from you and I loved the duergar RP. You always seemed to play it cool and I never once saw you loot anyone really. Not even a single piece, but then again you had quite the set that early really. hehe

Khurga:
As Khurga we didn't interact and chat that much, and Khurga truly feared you as advisor. Though he knew that as long as you had some power he wouldn't get booted right away as Khurga had his uses as a meat shield and whatnot. Even though his only goal with being in Scion was to be able to eat gnomes...

Kreo:
Kreo feared you, a powerful duergar AP... Tried to make friends with you early on and I was set to join Scion. Enjoyed our chats. That time I almost killed the chancellor in the sewers I was terrified when you told me something in the line with "That wasn't very smart now was it?". 2 mins later you fail to sleep me in Hamsah and I run to Galadon just to meet you there, get summoned into a locked room and one-rounded. You didn't take anything but the gold, thanks for that.
After that we had a truce for quite some time until I joined the empire. That blackjack I got off at you at the vanquisher was one of the highlights in Kreos life. Haven't had such an adrenaline rush in CF for quite some time! Though kicked myself a bit for having to hide from you after that since Kreo was all about greed and knew what was coming for him. hehe

All in all, I LOVED Waris. I never saw any of the #### some call on you. Though I did get a "hunch" about it from some posts here on the forums. I know it's hard but try to ignore all the #### outside the character until he's dead. No doubt that would have made even more people love Waris and in the long run I think you'd have more fun and gotten even further with him.

Keep up the kickass chars your provide!

But then I couldn't really be justified being afraid of any duergar AP. But you really set a bar with the length you played it out. You've always been an inspiration to the CF world, at least to me. Good luck with your next.

Iltanthal I don't really understand at times why you were quite as cautious as you were vs me but the damage I dished vs how rarely I hit you made it difficult to gauge if I was winning sometimes you speckled pill guzzling fool =P


Same could be said from my POV - there were times when you'd flee from me after one round, or teleport before I could even get to you. There were times when I fled after one round, or avoided running into you. I think both of us had our reasons - you were worried about other maran crying in (a valid worry to some extent), and probably other times you were already wounded or whatever. As for my part, the times I remember fleeing w/o giving you a good fight involve the fact that Kharnial or Lezra was around and it was a fairly visible spot so I was a touch worried about one of them running/flying in and kicking the crap out of me. I also remember at least once where the few preps I had just used were about to run out on the hour so I fled before the tick happened as I was worried about you hitting me for one of those 2 DEVA lightningOBLIT DEMOLISH rounds and lagging me.

Also, on more than one occasion I remember fleeing a few rooms away (from eastern to galadon, for instance), quaffing a prep or two, then trying to re-engage, only to find you gone. Or I ran to use a healer, or whatever.

And I specifically remember one time where I was (sorta) winning but had typed a flee in (I forget the reason) like 2-3 rounds earlier but crippling strike + a command I'd entered (artery, stab, something) made it go at the absolute worst time. I swore out loud at my monitor.

As for the char, I did think you were relatively conservative but honestly that's probably how I'd play an AP too. I was surprised as all hell that you came at me at the Watcher that time. But then, you had that goddamn item and you knew I couldn't completely command deny you, so I guess it wasn't that big a risk for you. I'd say I was close to getting you a few times, but probably not as close as it seemed - getting someone to writhing when they have 1800 HP and ABS means you've still got to him them for about 1000 (unprotected) hp. With light-based weapons, I was doing good damage, but it'd have taken 2 or 3 rounds to dish out enough.

I was shocked as hell when someone located your stuff on Satebos - love to hear the story of what exactly went down there.

Good luck with the next one!

Nah even if my tone didn't carry it, I overall liked this character as a foe.
Waris of course would have never admitted it =P

And just to make you groan, you had me at like 213 or something like that at the watcher last time. I was going down, but I was neither cursed nor entwined.

And for egos sake, while you may not have thought I was overly scared of you. I actually was most worried about you in every fight. All the time.

As for the lich, I was going to fight him till one of us ran/died and if I won that one hurl myself at you guys sans barrier or something.
But he convinced me to invoke .. something. Heh thats all I'll say there.

and all our talks. It was funny when we discussed our enemies in a way we did.

I can not comment if you were conservative or no. From my PoV you did way more than I would have tried to do(if I were you). Should have tried to cleave me more

I think chances of killing each other were really low and I think my chances were a bit higher because yours were close to zero. However you had higher chances to cleave me than I to pwk you, if you can cleave lich at all?

Ahtieli really wanted to take you down solo, since I think she was the only one who could do it. But I knew that you won't give me a lot of fights so I tried to hunt only when I could maximize chances of permalaging you.

As I said in my deletion thread, I liked your character. Aside from the brief time when Deiha was around, I knew that I was more useful alive than dead so I felt fairly secure and didn't worry about you or our friend Iggy turning on me. I certainly enjoyed our ST forays together. Great times.

I only saw you go ooc one time, and that was when you told Nerisa that you were going to the funeral so I'm not going to hold that against you. I guess it is all a matter of perspective.

It's never easy getting to the top and when you're there you're there's always someone trying to drag you down. Kudos for doing what you did I know I wouldn't have beeen able to. I knew this was coming and it's a pity I didn't get more time to run with Waris as my current incarnation. You're knowledge of the game is pretty damn impressive. So I know you'll be back and I hope whatever it is it's as scary as this one. Good job.

PS thanks there a few tid bits of knowledge I really appreciate.

Good luck to you man. Got some big shoes to fill all by yourself.

Keep alligatoring em.

Waris was a great character. He truly made an awesome impact on Scions and the game in general. We really tore some #### up.

Don't be dissuaded by all the naysayers. In the end, you made a positive contribution to the game. Had this character not been around, the mud would have been much more boring.

Imms - I gather from your posts that he did bitch alot. Truth be told, from your perspectives, would you rather have a player like him, who makes powershifting characters, or not?

Eh, its a damn good thing I don't really care what they think huh?

Except that from all your replies you clearly do care what they think and everyone else.

n/t

Yes and no. I don't really care what they think or I would have stopped playing long ago when people told me they though CF was dumb.

This is, more what I cared about

http://www.demotivateus.com/index.php?s=high+score&search.x=0&search.y=0

NT

laksjdf

NT

.

>Imms - I gather from your posts that he did bitch alot.

If any character in the history of the game has done more, I can't think of it.

(Note: that's not a challenge to anyone. Please don't try to top him in this respect.)

>Truth
>be told, from your perspectives, would you rather have a
>player like him, who makes powershifting characters, or not?

I'd rather have a player like that who also knows when to shut up.

I mean, like, if you took a Graatch duergar warrior who gets his warcry nerfed, and make Graatch play him for 500 hours, I guarantee that he will bitch more.

Seriously, I doubt Waris was even in the top5 bitches/per hour.

PS I definitely disagreed with a lot of the stuff Waris did. A character as buff as him should really never be complaining about anything unless it involved cheating. However, I definitely feel that a small subset of IMMs are just BLASTING his character in a very childish way. Lyristeon straight up char assassinated Waris while he was still active. I just don't understand it. If a player had posted something like that, it would have got deleted. Not to mention, how does Waris play his character now, knowing certain IMMs really dislike him. I wouldn't be surprised if everytime something weird happened with the RNG and a mob or something did something it had never done before, of course he's going to pray 'Are you guys ####ing with me?'. What human being wouldn't? It's just sad, because the Immortals are supposed to be held to a higher standard of actions than the players, and some of you don't really even try to.

This is what happens when you #### with someone who's just trying to play a goddamn game.

...ever since Nightshade died you've been super bitter at times (which is how the immortals probably saw you). With good reason of course, sometimes I wonder how I'd react if my best-friend/roommate died.

I just don't understand the cheapshots. Have you called any immortals out by specific names? No. Then why the #### are they doing it to you? It just smacks of childish-ness.

first of all, your subject line is lol-worthy.

Secondly, it appears you don't understand what cheapshot means. It is a thug thief path skill in the online multi-user domain game realm of The Carrion Fields. It is not any comment less positive than fawning praise regarding someone you love dearly.

It just shows what kind of a person you are.

thing is: it doesn't particularly require much effort or cleverness!

Perhaps if I'm a douchebag to you, you will.... you know... stay gone? If you don't play and are so disgusted by evil players like me and the immortals cruel actions that I cover for. Here's to hoping.

NT

>What human being
>wouldn't?

Everyone else who plays the game.

At least, relatively.

>It's just sad, because the Immortals are supposed
>to be held to a higher standard of actions than the players,
>and some of you don't really even try to.

We're not Gandhi. You want to bitch enough at us, eventually we're going to take shots back. If this feels inappropriate or unjustifiable to you, please become an immortal and show us how to do it better.

####, I defended you to my bro for like a year! Just wanted to get that out. I'm not disagreeing with what you posted, more with what Lyristeon posted on Mizfara's death thread and Rayihn's post here.

>>We're not Gandhi. You want to bitch enough at us, eventually we're going to take shots back. If this feels inappropriate or unjustifiable to you, please become an immortal and show us how to do it better.<<

But therein lies the rub. 1) I'd love more than anything to be an immortal, but you have to play CF to be an immortal so.... 2) Do customer service reps at Verizon, or Comcast, or AT&T takes shots at their customers who call flipping out? No, they hang up, and then laugh and make fun of them AMONGST THEMSELVES WHERE THE CUSTOMER WILL NEVER SEE/HEAR ABOUT IT. They don't send out a newsletter with all the crazy calls they've received. Which is basically what your wife was trying to push. I understand it was a joke, but c'mon man. You'd have to know that their is a minor group of us that like to argue/comment on anything that we feel strongly about... 3) Never claimed you guys were Gandhi, you're humans just like the rest of us (except for VALGBOT 2.0) I just dislike the way sometimes the immortals have a stance of 'This is bad, unless we do it'. It smacks of bias and hypocrisy. I've called out people for taking shots at me plenty of times, and 99% of the time my posts (either here or on dio's) have been deleted (damn you VALGBOT 2.0). I don't understand why immortals can't abide by the same code.

I think the key thing here is that unlike AT&T customer reps, IMMS aren't PAID to do the crap work and deal with the crap players that they deal with. They do this for fun, and volunteer their time. So if they want to throw back a shot or two every once in a while that's fine with me. Doesn't me I will stop complaining (though I just leave it for my deletion thread :p) but I am aware that I am up for criticism just as much as they are.

Listen. I could name 30 or so players right now that would love to contribute to the game more than just with PBF's and players. However, 98% of them are either unwilling are not skilled enough to get through the 'application' process to be an IMM. Therefore, if you aren't going to act like an admin and all the #### that comes with it, sack up and admit it and become a player like the rest of us. Losing an IMM or two who can't abide by a certain level of respect and decorum isn't going to ruin the playerbase. ####, by my count, since I had my first character we've lost over 6 imms that I thought were top draw, and they haven't been replaced really (sorry Enlilth, Netoulda).

The crux of my argument is: If you treat players in a certain antagonistic way, then why are shocked when the player reacts to certain situations with skepticism and anger? And furthermore, why are you then treating a certain player different than all others solely on the basis of his PLAYER (who btw, has never been accused of cheating as far as I know).

Geez dude, I just disagree on this fundamental point: Waris INITIATED bad blood with the imms. Just because this is the internet and because the IMMs are the admins doesn't give someone the right to treat another person like s hit just because things don't go his way.

Back in the old days I'm sure Waris would've been ROTD and smited or whatever and noone would've even blinked. We're all so caught up in our playerbase that we've all become a bunch of panzies, myself included. There are a million reasons why the playerbase has dwindled, including the changes in the IMM staff, but it's not because Imms have disrespected people who use the pray command to air their grievances because someone pissed in their cereal.

It's Guy that needs to grow up and not bring his personal problems into CF.

>Listen. I could name 30 or so players right now that would
>love to contribute to the game more than just with PBF's and
>players. However, 98% of them are either unwilling are not
>skilled enough to get through the 'application' process to be
>an IMM. Therefore, if you aren't going to act like an admin
>and all the #### that comes with it, sack up and admit it and
>become a player like the rest of us. Losing an IMM or two who
>can't abide by a certain level of respect and decorum isn't
>going to ruin the playerbase. ####, by my count, since I had
>my first character we've lost over 6 imms that I thought were
>top draw, and they haven't been replaced really (sorry
>Enlilth, Netoulda).

So in other words, you think there aren't enough good imms, and the solution to that is to have less imms overall.

>The crux of my argument is: If you treat players in a certain
>antagonistic way, then why are shocked when the player reacts
>to certain situations with skepticism and anger? And
>furthermore, why are you then treating a certain player
>different than all others solely on the basis of his PLAYER
> who btw, has never been accused of cheating as far as I
>know).

I don't even know what would make you think that.

I mean, did I treat Waris differently because of Waris's bitchy prays? Probably. Did I know who played Waris at the time? No. Would I have reacted the same way to anyone else praying bitchy things over a hundred times? I can't see how anyone would reasonably say no.

Other than that, meh, I am much worse in text at getting my point across.

I'm confident I at least made vocal a problem a lot of players have with the staff. Even if I still am not exactly sure if everyone understood what I was saying (which is basically, please act mature as an IMM if you wish the players to do the same; if a player is pissing you off, just ignore him, don't bait him, because then you'll have assholes like me arguing semantics with you).

This is so easy to defend. He sends up an ooc prayer about someone else being a wuss. Meanwhile, he has been playing the part of the wuss. He did not earn the right to call a butterfly a wuss. That's why.

As far as the rub part goes. Before I became an imm, I played a mortal who was an ally of this guy named, Graatch. In fact, on Sacer's website, my character's name is right there with Graatch as the first group that killed Dispater. I was Kantherion. From my perspective, as a mortal at that time, I thought Graatch was great. My interactions, explorations and overall outlook about this guy was positive. I didn't understand why this guy was getting such a bad rap. Heck, I thought he deserved a special form too! I bring him up because Waris has been compared to Graatch with his OOC prayer attitude. Now, after reading and watching Waris's prayer tirade and hearing this was akin to that, I can fully understand why the staff was less than pleased with Graatch. Now, I didn't get to see Graatch's tirades. Although, I have seen some of his prayers. And yes, Waris is deserving of being in the category, for me, as the most annoying character, as far as veterans go, in the 5 years I have been an imm. There isn't even a close second.

If a company had to put up with that kind of abuse, that person no longer becomes a customer. The customer isn't always right, regardless of any mottos. We didn't take away any privileges or maim his character for it. Though we would have been FULLY justified to do so.

I understand what you're saying, but I think that kind of response from the imms (no matter how justified it may be) breed resentment among players other than Waris.

To me, a better way to handle it would have been to just take the pray command away from him. To be funny, every time he used it, it could make him emote about sucking his thumb.

--- Lyristeon straight up char assassinated Waris while he was still active. I just don't understand it. If a player had posted something like that, it would have got deleted. ----


I believe Kharnial did a lot of the same to a ton of people on both forums. Take it as you will.

>
>Seriously, I doubt Waris was even in the top5 bitches/per
>hour.

Over Waris's lifetime, he bitched on average roughly once every 6 hours with a pray. That, by far, is the worst ratio ever for a character that has lived for over 200 hours.

>Lyristeon straight up char assassinated Waris while he was still active.

No, I didn't. If you look at my first reply, it was less than 10 words and was not an assassination by far. After he retorted, then he assassinated himself.

You pointed out the fact that he was a #### and were ragging on him hard because he teleported from someone at ~800 hps while winning a fight and you were completely berating him for it OOC while his character was active. I had no clue his character did this until you pointed it out on these forums and I really thought he was hardcore Billy Badass until I lost respect for him specifically from your posting things you saw from your Imm perspective or things you guys had talked about from Immland. I didn't even like Waris AT ALL and I thought that was really ####ty and reaked of character assassination, I didn't understand why it couldn't wait until after he deleted.

Yeah, that's something we probably should have done a better job to keep in our collective pants.

It's just hard sometimes to be quiet when Player A is ragging on Player B for something they did more than Player B did. In a sense I really feel it's part of our job as imms to comment in cases like that, to say: "well, from our semi-omniscient/theoretically-more-objective view, A, you did X more than B" but sometimes we're not good about waiting for the appropriate time to say it.

My initial response was:

>You really shouldn't. (Subject)

Seriously. (Post)<

That was all I said, but, then he came across with this tirade:

>"I'll be as nice as I can when I say this" (Subject)

But seriously drink a nice tall glass of STFU.

Miz had not one not two not even three but Four fights off the top of my head where he'd just stuck around for another 2 rounds instead of fleeing at covered in bleeding wounds. I'd be gone and you'd be making inane posts on my graveyard thread instead of his.

Take your flame and cram it up your ass Lyristeon. (Post)<


At that point Daevryn posted and said to wait and see what the PBF says.


And Waris's next response?

>How its even ok for him to post that kind of garbage. He's just making you (Immortal staff) look like a bunch of jackasses.

Maybe one day I'll take a moment and do a compliation of Lyristons flaming/ridiculous/misinfo/general asshole posts. And we can see who stacks up.
That is, My occassional annoying prayers or his endless garbage littering the forums.<

Mind you, these are his posts after my response to not talk about another player when he clearly had done the same thing more than the other player.

If you look up Mizfara's thread, it's all right there. Now, read his responses and read mine. Knowing what you know now. Do it in the time the posts were done. And then come back here and tell me how I am supposed to respond to his ridiculous rants. Granted, after knowing it is Guy and having looked up his history, I do feel more than vindicated of my assessment of the whole situation.

I can just imagine how bad it is for you guys. Admining a game is by no means easy.

Recently (maybe it's just me), I see a trend of lower pbase. Whatever the reason may be, it's still a trend. I thought that you guys would want to keep a player like Guy by encouraging him...I dunno.

I think it's hard to say one way or the other. On the one hand, yes this was a tough mort that people probably generally enjoyed fighting. On the other hand, his (self admitted) personality were not fun to play with. Imms get driven away too, and often it is because of having to deal with unpleasant parts of the player base. I never really dealt with Waris from a mortal perspective, but then again based on my interactions with him as an imm I had no desire to do so either. Anyone else who had to deal with the tantrums or bitchyness might also have had the same feeling. So I think it evens itself out.

Thats funny. I think I have a log of you acting like a total jerk to me as your thief.

I don't remember it.

~

Never said I haven't. I'm sure you're referring to Llondolis' deletion thread. Case in point, I also recalled informing you to have fun with your character and partially disregard what people have to say (maybe take it into consideration).

>Never said I haven't. I'm sure you're referring to Llondolis'
>deletion thread. Case in point, I also recalled informing you
>to have fun with your character and partially disregard what
>people have to say (maybe take it into consideration).

I'm not referring to that thread, because I also remember that you had fun with my char. I'm just saying that some people will be always upset with powerhouses. And we fail in that category sometimes.

You'd expect having a powerhouse would be awesome for players. Someone to look up to and someone to fight.

Unfortunately, some people just get frustrated. It sucks.

BTW, I can't believe you backstabbed me when you said you'd vote for Vehldriss as the Empress! We even talked about Enlilth! BOOOO!

>You'd expect having a powerhouse would be awesome for
>players. Someone to look up to and someone to fight.
>
>Unfortunately, some people just get frustrated. It sucks.
>
>BTW, I can't believe you backstabbed me when you said you'd
>vote for Vehldriss as the Empress! We even talked about
>Enlilth! BOOOO!

I offered my vote to you because of rp reasons. But you did not seem interested in it. That's why I did not vote for you. Did I get you wrong there?

I wanted to be Empress dammit. Ah well...glad you got Empire. Kick some ass.

was it last vote for Emperor? Because I was thinking about vote that ended with Kostyan being Emperor.

If it is.. of course I backstabbed you, I knew that you will vote for each other

n/t

So, wow, I didn't really think the two or three things I said when I switched into the Vanquisher would be so incredibly inflamatory. Maybe I was just the straw that broke the camel's back?

I actually sorta liked Waris. You won't see nice comments from me in your PBF, so I'll put them out here. I had to ignore all the pray stuff to pull off liking you, and it was hard, but watching you from immland and from mortal eyes made me more "ok" with you than I would've been if I payed much attention to the ooc stuff.

That day when I mouthed off as the Vanquisher, I was trying to taunt a little bit, IC, as the Vanquisher. Not as an Imm (or else I'd have done some global echo or something). I wasn't out to embarass you globally, or even to any other mortal online.

As for what I taunted you about? Here's how it went down from my POV. First, I was shocked as HELL that Ahtieli actually raided you. Alone. (With a big army of zombies, naturally). When you didn't show up to defend, I even gave you the benefit of the doubt and figured it happened too fast for you to get there or whatever.

Then you did (sorta) what I'd do - you probed Balator/Imperial Lands to see if you could do a quick strike.

What made me sad was that you didn't actually attempt a strike at all. I mean, I know you can't sleep/bash/cleave/trip/blind etc. on Lichguy, but hell, I was thinking "Just go throw some big damage on the Vanq and spam "c lig ahti" so he can't get a lucky PWK on you! If you get dirted, flee/c tele and come back later." But it didn't happen.

And really, I was fine with that. A little disappointed since I sorta was hoping to see this big rumble of the titans, but eh, I understand conservative play.

What made me decide to comment was this. Ahtieli logged off, I stopped watching because I'm like "Ok, no Imperials to fend off Waris, guess he'll retrieve easily soon, time to go talk to that coworker about that project." I leave my desk, am gone for like 10 minutes, come back, and you STILL hadn't retrieved. I was boggling. I had to scroll back to make sure. Finally I'm like yep, he still hasn't tried yet, with no opposition. So I check where you are and "Ah, ok, he's finally coming through Balator."

I don't know why you didn't retrieve. Maybe you had a good reason, like you were stuck in the elven vaults and it took you that long to get out, or whatever. But still, I was like damn, that deserves some ribbing from the much-inferior Imperial Vanquisher.

Note that the taunting was all IC, and that you were able to "shut me up" by killing the Vanq. Your prays afterward bothered me a little, not because I took offense, but because you were so irate about such a small thing. I think it was at that point that I put a comment in your history about it. You wanted me to come "talk to you like a man" and all that but the bottom line is, IC, Twist doesn't give a flying #### about whether you're a coward or not. So I couldn't really continue any sort of IC discussion with you, and it sure as hell didn't merit any OOC stuff.

So, there's the story from my perspective. I hope it didn't sour your experience, but I'm afraid it might have. If so, I'm sorry, but not for my actions - I'm sorry you somehow got so thin-skinned that you took that so personally.

No your right, it was the straw that broke the camels back in some ways.

No I don't think I was even remotly right for the way I reacted. I just wasn't in a very good mood that morning. No thats not a excuse.

You were actually taking the time to give me the type of interaction I want the immortals to give players, I did deserve a good ribbing and I was waaay out of line with the prays.
Guy is just plain grumpy some mornings, sorry

You handled my reaction better than I would have, I'd have atleast thrown down a smite and a few plagues.


As for the whole lich thing. Your right, I probably could have fought him and possibly won. Of course having defilment control up, was one thing to slow me down. Him killing my outer/inner in the time it took me to cross the ocean didn't help.

One issue I kept hanging up on.
The lich dies to me, at the most I could loot maybe 5 things. I die to the lich, I'm naked in one command.

>One issue I kept hanging up on.
>The lich dies to me, at the most I could loot maybe 5 things.
>I die to the lich, I'm naked in one command.

Well, there is that.

Lich is full of delicious charges, though!

I think A-P vs. lich isn't a great match-up for A-P, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as you think it is, either.

Not to drag this into a tactics discussion but now I have to know what you really think would work here.

dispel + imperial tactics for trip + almost full army that trips and bashes.
So he's got lag with one spell, then he can throw on crushing hands or the like.

Soften x 2. Not much to say about that for someone that doesn't tank.

Then we've got good ol sleep/pwk. Really had little reason not to try them all atleast once or twice, considering our massive HP's.
Of course that would have probably degenerated to a cleave/pwk war.
Ahteli would probably say he feels uncomfortable giving me the chance, but I can honestly say I only got one cleave kill on waris, that I can remember. It was cool though


As well as with PWK and sleep, honestly if theres anything CFing all this time has taught me, sometimes its better to know when not to give the RNG a chance to own you. Because it will, happily.

And hypotheticly, Ok so I AM winning against the Lich. Now what? Nothing he words, or flees and teleports.

I didn't blame you, really, for not trying to kill Ahtieli. For the reasons you've posted here and in other spots - I think you'd have to have a lot of things happen just right to pull that off.

But I'd consider it a "win" if you retrieved. Or even if you beat the Vanq down a bit, then fled and came back, etc. Then maybe you can fight him at the Archmage if he decides to re-raid, or if he doesn't, you've got your powers back and "won" against him.

Raiding Waris is not a big deal with army of zombies.

(beyond saying I was shocked you raided). But if you'll recall a conversation we had a few months ago, you might understand why I was shocked that you were willing to risk even one of those zombies in a raid.

It's absolutely two different situations.

As you could remember we discussed raid of fort with no one to fight and most likely with lowbie fort to awake and reraid. While this time I was hoping for a fight.

And I was noob lich two months ago

It's a good idea to retrieve against a lich if you have something to lose.
Chances to die aren't high, but still above zero.
For example, you may be slept the moment you deliver the last blow on the Vanquisher.
And I don't think I like the idea of being slept by Emperor lich with healing curse and assorted stuff.

You can either take this constructively, or not.

Basically, you've got the same problem Graatch does. You made a character that by many measures seems good, but can't possibly get out of the shadow of your OOC temper/complaining/attitude.

Could I have liked Waris? I think I probably could have. He was decently tough. When you weren't losing your temper, his RP seemed fine.

But we'll never know because my first impression was: "Huh. I don't know anything about this guy, but based solely on his prays, he's a tool."

And you really, really drove that point home again and again, which based on your post here I think you have some inkling of.

Beyond that, there's the issue that you judge your actions fairly favorably, and your opponents fairly harshly in general. I mean, Fortress/Outlander/whoever wanted to gang you all the time? They wanted to gang a character who gets tougher with every kill, has most of a set of unique gear, and can almost always escape death as long as he can get even one command? Shocking. Maybe it would have been more fun if they'd have reacted to Waris the way Waris reacted to the prospect of fighting Ahtieli, which is to say, complain that there was no way they can win and run for the hills. I assure you that Waris had a much better chance of killing Ahtieli than most of those mooks ever had of killing Waris.

Hell, you even can think whatever deluded thing you want about your coolness vs. other people's coolness, but when you run your mouth about it on the forums / via pray / in clearly OOC says/tells/etc. it doesn't make you any friends.

Basically, I think if you could learn to shut the hell up when you're pissed off, you could probably make a really good character. As is, in a year the only thing I'm likely to remember about Waris is that he was "bitchy pray guy."

Here's my big take-away from this post:

What's a mook?

>What's a mook?

Wikipedia gives several definitions, but this is probably closest to what I meant:

"In tabletop and computer Role-playing game slang, a redshirt enemy henchman (or cannon fodder); derived from the term's use in the Heroic bloodshed sub genre of Hong Kong action cinema."

Beyond that, there's the issue that you judge your actions fairly favorably, and your opponents fairly harshly in general. I mean, Fortress/Outlander/whoever wanted to gang you all the time? They wanted to gang a character who gets tougher with every kill, has most of a set of unique gear, and can almost always escape death as long as he can get even one command? Shocking.

**Oh no you got a point, most of my bitching came from when they were mostly able to beat me 1 vs 1 and prefered to show up with the 5 man gang. As much as I wanted to brutally 5 on 1 certain people who beat me up, I tended not to as its not fun.. you know?**

Maybe it would have been more fun if they'd have reacted to Waris the way Waris reacted to the prospect of fighting Ahtieli, which is to say, complain that there was no way they can win and run for the hills. I assure you that Waris had a much better chance of killing Ahtieli than most of those mooks ever had of killing Waris.

**Eh, most people did react like that to me, (Run and hide that is)
Further more, I really don't think anyone has given true tactical thought to fighting a lich as a AP, theres alot of #### he can do. And very very little I can do to counter any of it.**

**I should have just deleted when Rich died, probably would have saved everyone alot of grief as well as alot of angry prays**

>**Eh, most people did react like that to me, (Run and hide
>that is)
>Further more, I really don't think anyone has given true
>tactical thought to fighting a lich as a AP, theres alot of
>#### he can do. And very very little I can do to counter any
>of it.**

Dhaevor had a great plan to kill Zorszaul which could still work today.

125 DELICIOUS bits of Waris pray logs. That's right kids, every single pray Waris made in his entire career up for sale! This one's a classic, everybody, so listen up! It'll go down in legend with the Entropy Lich FAQ! Every time an imm gets a little short with you, you'll be able to look back on this log alone and remember why sometimes it's frustrating to be an imm.

So! For sale with Waris's also classic PBF. Shall we start the bidding at $25?

Only if you attach the bitchy tells, and classic player driving away immortal interactions.

Then I think we'd be about even.

>Then I think we'd be about even.

I can't concieve of a system of math in which that would be true.

Something we can agree on

NT

But trust me, it's something you either need to laugh or cry about. You would laugh to see them, honest! The offer is genuine!

Does it?

Seriously, what's this #### from you. Since when do you get your jolly's by making snideass remarks? You're a freaking immortal - act like one. If this post is meant to be humorous, then you failed completely.

Seriously, do you all have to back up your buddy...someone clearly that the Immortals did not like to deal with because of his attitude in prays? If the guy was acting like a ranting noob and his PBF is stock-full of immortal complaints, then the evidence should be out there. Right now it's just a flaming fest between a bunch of ooc buddies and the Immortal staff over someone who clearly admitted he should have deleted long ago - I would like to see the prays to prove a point. Might humble all the "rally against the oppressing Immortals" spewing into this thread.

Holy crap did I just defend the Imms and say we need less drama? WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO ME!

Oh yeah, grew up and had a kid.

But that's alright. I'm taking a stand against actions that seem eerily similar to the actions that made me quit the last MUD I played on.

JMC probably also notices the similarities, since he was a high level IMM on that MUD and was also the only person who had my back.

Here's where I normally would take a shot at you Torak for assuming, but you know what, I am taking the high road.

Nor did I have any connections to high level imms outside the game and the forum.

Some of the #### that went around their smelled funny, and it affected how I view/played the game.

I criticize people if I think they should be acting differently. This by no means has anything to do with OOC connections - look through qhcf if you want.

Fine. If the pbf, which will undoubtly be purchased, reflects ####ty comments, then that's how it is. I had qualms about my comment, but that was a question, not by any sort an attack.

I try not to create drama...if she doesn't want to respond, fine. Suffice it to say, her snide comment was a potshot - and I, along with many other people, think she should be held to a higher standard.

It's actually something we've been kicking around in imm land for a while. I posted it in a manner that was trying to be a bit cutsey (failed) but it wasn't JUST me being bitchy.

It might be a good idea to read over your posts before posting them. A lot of times your posts portray you in a negative light.

I've never bought into that ####.

IMM's should post candidly. Maybe at some point, players won't get so damn soft.

Seriously.

I don't think that's far from the truth. And if your boss talks #### about you to your co-workers or other clients, and you're quite aware of that ####talking, that leads to a bad environment.

Being an admin holds certain responsibilities to it.

See, you and your pal want CF Immortals to treat it like their job, but Guy/Waris doesn't want to treat the staff like they are at their job. I'm sorry, but if you walked into my workplace and started treating the staff the way Guy treats our staff (essentially, yelling ludicrous demands at the first person you saw), you'd be out on your ass.

You're stridently an advocate of courtesy... for everyone but Guy. You want a virtual world where Guy can be as abusive as he wants to be, and everyone says "Aw. That's OK, Guy. You're awesome and we love you."

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

YOU CAN IGNORE THE #### OUT OF WARIS.

I will type the rest of this in Caps, because I am a damn good roleplayer.

IF WARIS WAS SO ####TY AND AN ASSHOLE AND EVERYTHING ELSE, WHY WAS HE TITLED NUMEROUS TIMES, ADVISOR'D, TAT'D AND EVERYTHING ELSE? WHY DON'T YOU ADMIT THAT YOU AND SEVERAL OTHER IMMS JUST DON'T LIKE GUY(his player persona that is, far as I know none of you actually know Guy the person)? IS IT THAT HARD? THIS CHARACTER HAS HAD MORE POSITIVE FEEDBACK ON HIS CHARACTER FROM PLAYERS THAN SEYRIANNIA DID (AND SHE HAS NOT HAD A SINGLE IMM BUT TWIST COMMENT NEGATIVELY ON HER). DOES THAT MAKE SEYRIANNIA THE WORST CHARACTER IN THE HISTORY OF CF?

Seriously, what does that say. You have one character that a small subset of the playerbase dislikes, but the IMMs hate. You have another character that a large amount of the playerbase dislikes, yet the IMMs seem to like. Where does the disconnect come from? Favoritism?