Torak | Tue 17-Aug-10 11:21 PM |
Member since 15th Feb 2007
1216 posts
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#34675, "You could just have said it was my posts"
Edited on Tue 17-Aug-10 11:29 PM
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Since we're doing this in a constructive manner, I'm going to point out a few things about your post and try to ignore the personal shots. Here's some answers for your questions:
1. The issue will likely always be brought up by the players and usually the player involved in an incident. It's never been common practice for an Immortal to post why they made a decision. Immortals will answer direct questions about mechanics but anything about the rules or reasoning behind actions is rare. Twist's post today was one of the very first like it....and that was a good thing.
2. He didn't post his gear which everyone called him on it - he likely left out parts. I do know that he avoids people in-game and has generally held onto gear but I've had him sell/help my character out before so I can see his side as well. There's always been hoarding characters. It's also never really been policed for hoarding beyond "anti-hoarding" instances where your gear rots - a title is fine, even removal from the Spire I could see but a personal penalty to his character (on an air form I believe) is a bit rough.
There's always the alternative as well that you post the log - and better yet your reasons for such instead of replying "you don't deserve to know". From what we saw, the Immortal was being rude. If that's not the case, then back it up with evidence.
3. My posts can take shots at some Immortals but quite honestly, it's a two-way road - yes I can take the high road and so could others. Also some Immortals basically bring it upon themselves with how they act towards others directly. There's a reason you rarely see Sebeok/Cyradia/etc post these days....which is probably a good thing. About Zathyrian I basically said exactly what I said above....and if we're talking about the rules clarification post, here's exactly how it transpired...
-My post asked the OOCness and rules around Hell groups specifically -First Immortal response? "We shouldn't waste time dealing with cheaters." Ya, great beginning... -Eskelian made a great post about the state of the game and the rules -I do get a solid response from Daevryn after awhile, which I was happy with even though we don't agree. -No Immortal responses to Eskelian's post despite 15+ responses agreeing, and several on the other forums. -Week goes by, figure I'd ask since I know it takes time to discuss internally rules changes -After a very long thread, it takes Lyristeon's nearly last response to basically say I was denied for Rawvos' actions to "prevent this kind of action". Which I'm fine with but I was asking in an isolated instance about OOC rules...which ironically Twist says it's fine in some instances, which is basically how it's always been. -Thread gets locked.
Now if they would have explained it out with a real response, maybe even *gasp* discuss rules with players, you might get somewhere. The game is basically in a state where the Immortals and players aren't agreeing and it's showing - I can point to a ton of other games where things like podcasts, news blogs, chat room discussions, and other ways all exist to keep that relationship up there. Right now none of it exists - add in some bad responses, bad actions from above and you get the ####storm we're in. It's like the end of Star Wars Online if ya know about that.
I'll leave your last question as kind of an open-ended response to the whole thing. As much as your comments shoot at people like myself, for actions that have been in the past and Immortals have supposedly moved on from by the way, you basically ask players to defend against people who speak up about what's wrong on a public forum.
Side note: Considering the time and effort I put into this game, either from helping new players, or showing newer players "vet secrets", or contributing with solid RPers like Loshnak, or writing lots on the wiki (official and Dio's), or trying to start things like the podcast....I think we deserve answers despite what you may think.....
Well, I'm not going to dive head long into this but the basics is that people think the Immortals are ####ing up. Declining playerbase basically shows that something is wrong. And when things like denial without discussion, stats being set on players with no discussion or when not merited, banning people left and right for things like Orcfest and friends exploring a game together.....maybe it's time to reevaluate what's going on. What's always worked before is surely not working now and maybe it's time the mystical Imms step out from behind the curtain and get talking with players.
I asked the Immortals to chat in the podcast (I'll be doing it somewhat soon, I needed a breather after Loshnak so it wasn't basically a ragefest)....not one answer. Maybe it's time someone steps up and gets talking.
And Twist, that post basically saying it was taken back against Zathyrian? Well done. You were great to deal with when I got denied, even though I didn't agree with it. Just wish more people would follow your footsteps - and I'm being serious.
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RE: Locked Threads
[View all] , Splntrd, Wed 18-Aug-10 10:50 PM
Bottom line,
Hopelessdwarf,
18-Aug-10 07:21 PM, #79
Summary.,
Lyristeon,
18-Aug-10 03:46 PM, #48
Sorry, you need to get off your high horse,
Knac,
18-Aug-10 04:04 PM, #49
RE: Sorry, you need to get off your high horse,
Lyristeon,
18-Aug-10 04:10 PM, #50
RE: Sorry, you need to get off your high horse,
Knac,
18-Aug-10 04:37 PM, #56
RE: Sorry, you need to get off your high horse,
Lyristeon,
18-Aug-10 04:48 PM, #59
RE: Sorry, you need to get off your high horse,
_Magus_,
18-Aug-10 04:52 PM, #60
RE: Sorry, you need to get off your high horse,
Lyristeon,
18-Aug-10 05:00 PM, #62
What you guys should do in this situation..,
Knac,
18-Aug-10 05:06 PM, #64
RE: What you guys should do in this situation..,
Lyristeon,
18-Aug-10 06:01 PM, #70
I don't feel thats entirely accurate.,
Gaplemo,
18-Aug-10 06:42 PM, #73
You're not allowed to enter into this thread.,
sleepy,
19-Aug-10 12:42 AM, #84
RE: Sorry, you need to get off your high horse,
Elerosse,
18-Aug-10 06:34 PM, #72
RE: Summary.,
sorlag (Anonymous),
18-Aug-10 04:13 PM, #51
Well thought out response, I will return mine in kind.,
Lyristeon,
18-Aug-10 04:24 PM, #52
Thuul,
Pro,
18-Aug-10 05:46 PM, #66
RE: Thuul,
Lyristeon,
18-Aug-10 05:52 PM, #67
My point,
Pro,
18-Aug-10 06:00 PM, #69
I'm pretty sure you already ranted about Thuul,
sleepy,
19-Aug-10 12:44 AM, #85
That wasn't the consensus. n/t,
Pro,
19-Aug-10 03:57 AM, #89
RE: That wasn't the consensus. n/t,
Lyristeon,
19-Aug-10 06:04 AM, #92
No it wasn't and still isn't. n/t,
Pro,
19-Aug-10 02:55 PM, #99
RE: Well thought out response, I will return mine in ki...,
_Magus_,
18-Aug-10 04:41 PM, #83
RE: Well thought out response, I will return mine in ki...,
Lyristeon,
18-Aug-10 04:44 PM, #58
Just to point something out...,
Eskelian,
19-Aug-10 01:06 AM, #86
I actually had no idea about the title until afterwards...,
TMNS,
18-Aug-10 07:07 PM, #76
RE: Summary.,
_Magus_,
18-Aug-10 04:36 PM, #55
RE: Summary.,
Lyristeon,
18-Aug-10 04:58 PM, #61
RE: Summary.,
_Magus_,
18-Aug-10 05:13 PM, #63
RE: Summary.,
Lyristeon,
18-Aug-10 05:58 PM, #68
RE: Summary.,
_Magus_,
18-Aug-10 06:07 PM, #71
RE: Summary.,
Hutto,
19-Aug-10 02:28 PM, #97
we're all human and we all make mistakes,
MoetEtChandon,
18-Aug-10 04:44 PM, #57
FWIW, I didn't lock it and don't know who did. nt,
Lyristeon,
18-Aug-10 04:54 PM, #81
To be honest, you're a great IMM but a god-awful poster...,
TMNS,
18-Aug-10 07:08 PM, #78
RE: Summary.,
HammerSong,
18-Aug-10 07:29 PM, #80
Speaking as a newbie...,
defrost,
18-Aug-10 04:20 AM, #22
Define newbie, restraint, polite behavior. n/t,
Pro,
18-Aug-10 10:50 AM, #32
RE: Locked Threads,
Malakhi,
18-Aug-10 03:29 AM, #20
My reasonable alternative:,
Bubthegreat,
18-Aug-10 03:59 AM, #21
... No.,
Splntrd,
18-Aug-10 09:52 AM, #31
RE: ... No.,
Bubthegreat,
18-Aug-10 02:04 PM, #40
On the offhand chance you're genuinely interested.,
Eskelian,
18-Aug-10 08:08 AM, #23
This. nt,
Splntrd,
18-Aug-10 09:19 AM, #28
FATALITY n/t,
Pro,
18-Aug-10 01:09 PM, #38
Agreement?,
Malakhi,
18-Aug-10 01:45 PM, #39
RE: Agreement?,
Eskelian,
18-Aug-10 02:17 PM, #42
RE: Agreement?,
Isildur,
18-Aug-10 10:33 PM, #82
RE: Agreement?,
Eskelian,
19-Aug-10 01:13 AM, #87
RE: Agreement?,
Lyristeon,
19-Aug-10 06:03 AM, #91
I can't believe how much I don't agree with you these d...,
Pro,
19-Aug-10 03:50 AM, #88
RE: I can't believe how much I don't agree with you the...,
Lyristeon,
19-Aug-10 06:02 AM, #90
Can't believe I'm defending Pro.,
Eskelian,
19-Aug-10 08:39 AM, #93
RE: Can't believe I'm defending Pro.,
Lyristeon,
19-Aug-10 09:43 AM, #95
RE: Agreement?,
Malakhi,
19-Aug-10 02:42 PM, #98
RE: On the offhand chance you're genuinely interested.,
Isildur,
18-Aug-10 03:21 PM, #43
Think about this also,
Knac,
18-Aug-10 03:41 PM, #46
RE: Locked Threads,
ORB,
18-Aug-10 08:29 AM, #24
RE: Locked Threads,
Malakhi,
18-Aug-10 02:09 PM, #41
RE: Locked Threads,
ORB,
18-Aug-10 03:41 PM, #47
Quick thought.,
TMNS,
18-Aug-10 07:00 PM, #75
RE: Locked Threads,
Hutto,
19-Aug-10 02:19 PM, #96
At this point its like a bad marriage..,
Kadsuane,
17-Aug-10 08:38 PM, #17
Bring all the lawyers you want...I'll still get custody...,
Zulghinlour,
18-Aug-10 03:26 PM, #44
Le sigh n/t ,
Kadsuane,
18-Aug-10 05:39 PM, #65
RE: Locked Threads,
Isildur,
17-Aug-10 03:33 PM, #10
Correct on both accounts (n/t),
Zulghinlour,
18-Aug-10 03:27 PM, #45
Fine we'll go start our own with Hookers and Blackjack!...,
ORB,
18-Aug-10 04:30 PM, #54
Hookers and Blackjack eh?,
Zulghinlour,
18-Aug-10 06:54 PM, #74
RE: Locked Threads,
Nnaeshuk,
17-Aug-10 02:55 PM, #9
Some people just have long toes,
MoetEtChandon,
17-Aug-10 04:47 PM, #12
Totally.,
Guilo,
17-Aug-10 05:22 PM, #13
So duper duper cosign.,
TMNS,
17-Aug-10 07:13 PM, #16
Agreed,
Torak,
17-Aug-10 10:44 PM, #18
RE: Locked Threads,
Hutto,
17-Aug-10 02:29 PM, #8
RE: Locked Threads,
wareagle,
17-Aug-10 01:43 PM, #7
I'm all for locked threads,
incognito,
17-Aug-10 01:29 PM, #5
RE: I'm all for locked threads,
Splntrd,
17-Aug-10 01:37 PM, #6
RE: I'm all for locked threads,
Anliltuel (Anonymous),
17-Aug-10 05:37 PM, #14
You could just have said it was my posts,
Torak,
17-Aug-10 11:29 PM #19
RE: I'm all for locked threads,
Eskelian,
18-Aug-10 08:33 AM, #25
RE: I'm all for locked threads,
Anliltuel (Anonymous),
18-Aug-10 09:01 AM, #27
You're on crack.,
Splntrd,
18-Aug-10 09:39 AM, #29
I didn't think it'd be too much trouble...,
Anliltuel (Anonymous),
18-Aug-10 09:49 AM, #30
In retrospect...,
Splntrd,
18-Aug-10 10:55 AM, #33
You pretty much invaidated your argument in my eyes.,
Pro,
18-Aug-10 11:13 AM, #34
You're not helping.,
Splntrd,
18-Aug-10 11:16 AM, #35
RE: You pretty much invaidated your argument in my eyes...,
Anliltuel (Anonymous),
18-Aug-10 07:08 PM, #77
RE: You pretty much invaidated your argument in my eyes...,
Eskelian,
19-Aug-10 08:55 AM, #94
RE: I'm all for locked threads,
Eskelian,
18-Aug-10 12:59 PM, #37
RE: I'm all for locked threads,
ORB,
18-Aug-10 08:34 AM, #26
The term 'Champion' is poorly chosen,
MoetEtChandon,
18-Aug-10 04:25 PM, #53
RE: I'm all for locked threads,
Pendragon_Surtr,
17-Aug-10 03:43 PM, #11
RE: Locked Threads,
ORB,
17-Aug-10 12:59 PM, #3
RE: Locked Threads,
HammerSong,
17-Aug-10 06:24 PM, #15
RE: Locked Threads,
flatline,
17-Aug-10 12:27 PM, #1
RE: Locked Threads,
sorlag (Anonymous),
17-Aug-10 12:37 PM, #2
Lyr's response to you was unwarranted.,
Pro,
18-Aug-10 12:49 PM, #36
RE: Locked Threads,
Splntrd,
17-Aug-10 01:19 PM, #4
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