>This is simple. If you have an idea to market a product and
>you know the product, you put together your ideas and present
>them to the company. It's that simple. You don't go to the
>company first without any ideas. There haven't been many
>movies out there about advertising and marketing but, there is
>one that shows you a brief glimpse. It's called "What Women
>Want". They put together their ideas of what they want to do
>before they go to the companies and say 'Pick me!" And we
>aren't talking about a product that he doesn't know. If he's
>been playing for 10 years, he knows what to say. Believe that
>I am just picking on the guy still? Let's take a look at his
>last post and compare that to my concerns in my posts.


Are you retarded? Honest to God. You are saying that "What Women Want" is an example of how an advertising firm runs?? What the hell is wrong with you?


>
>>>Marketing/Sales/Customer service "people" people don't have
>any reason to climb the current immortal ladder. Their purpose
>is not to interact with the player, or to code and develop. So
>what difference does it make if they are immortal, not
>immortal, 51 or 59? They wouldn't be, nor should they be,
>climbing the same ladder as the current staff.
>
>**Exactly**
>
>HOWEVER, you can't say "Marketing is the most important thing
>outside of the game itself," but then turn around and say,
>"But you guys do whatever you do, get no recognition, don't
>expect to have any input, you aren't really a part of the CF
>staff, your just a highly motivated player." That's not right
>either.
>
>**You haven't done the Marketing yet, right now you are just
>talking the game, not implementing anything. Marketers and
>advertisers get the job if they bring something to the table,
>not before.**

Dude, I'm not asking for anything right now but a ####ing dialogue. I'm telling you guys that your never going to motivate people to work on your crap without making them a part of the team. Do you freaking disagree with that? Am I asking that it happens NOW? NO! I'm making a comment, and a helpful one at that, for the future.



>
>In the real world most companies develop products that start
>in the Marketing dept. I have a friend whoes a marketer w/ an
>MBA who works in finance. Basically when they want to develop
>a product to sell, they go to marketing and say, "figure out
>what people will buy." When staff in other areas of the
>business have ideas, or people want to change something within
>the function of the company, Marketing weighs in with their
>opinion. For instance, someone might have a great idea that
>would be a tremendous help to the customers, but Marketing
>might say, "Yea, that's great but we have no means of
>articulating the benefit of what your talking about so that
>customers will buy right now, so we're not behind your
>project."
>
>On CF this would probably work more like a lower level imm
>would need a project. Valg or Daevryn or whoever might then go
>to the marketing folks and say, "Okay, based on your research
>and the results of focus groups and polls, what do you guys
>feel could be done within the game to reactivate players or
>bring new players in?" At the same time, when ideas are being
>kicked around Marketing might come in with input that doesn't
>have to do with game balance or functionality, but is very
>valuable in terms of how to spin it to the playerbase in an
>appealing way, or to use it some way to promote the game.
>
>**When the positions of Marketing or Advertising have been
>filled, then yes. As you can see, he already considers
>himself the person for the position and yet, right now it is
>still all talk and no action.**

Holy ####! What the hell is wrong with you? Where do you get off thinking that I'M considering myself that person? NOWHERE! I volunteered to help, it wasn't accepted. I sent an email with some of the things I would need to know, what else do you want me to do right now???




>
>So it's not that we would need an immortal CHARACTER, it's
>that we need to have access to the same communication media as
>the rest of the staff. What if I'm thinking about what might
>be a cool ad, and I want to kick around my ideas with someone
>the same way that Braemir (cameo!) might kick around an idea
>for his area? Well, Braemir isn't posting about his area on
>Gameplay, he's talking in the Gathering Room or on Hamsah.<<
>
>**And there it is. Access to the Gathering Room and or
>Hamsah. Why not just a closed mortal forum so you don't have
>access to the imm related stuff? My concerns were all about
>this. Not about the effort. I know for a fact that a person
>who is truly a marketing or advertising person who knows the
>product can put together a concept outline to present to a
>company without speaking to anyone within the company. You
>don't need to see behind the green curtain to sell Oz. Just
>sell what you know about that game to the staff and let them
>aid you if they can.

Oh MY GOD! There isn't anything behind your little curtain! This is an online roleplaying game and nothing more, dude. It is NOT someone's privilege to work on this game. It's the lowest of charity work. If all I wanted was access to the Gathering Room and Hamsah to see behind your little "curtain" I -had- that. Let me tell you chief, I don't have any fascination with what's back there. I don't know how many times I've said now that I don't care about the game side of the game. I'm talking about the business side of the game.

I said SPECIFICALLY that access to these things was needed for COMMUNICATION. What the hell makes you think that I care to see anything about the game?


Basically man, it comes to this: You don't know what you are talking about. You may or may not have done the things you say you have, I don't care. But I can tell you one thing from this little swapping of threads, chief, you aren't a marketer. You might have done some marketing as part of another project, but consulting has never been your job.

Look, how the HELL can you even begin to talk about what you are going to do for marketing when you don't know how much money is there to do it? Don't you freaking start there? Ummmm, yes, you do. Should we put CFLLC's financial reports up for everyone to see? Yea, let's do that. No money, fine, what are we comfortable with doing to get marketing specific donations? Oh wait.... there's an idea we might need to bounce around.

Oh, how do we create a marketing campaign without talking what their first FREAKING step should be?? Are we going to send them to this piece of #### website, chief? Not like it is right now, we aren't. What are we going to do about that? Oh gee, I guess we might need to COMMUNICATE about that.

Who is our traget player? Is he 14 or 40? What else do we know about him? How can we niche him down even more? Gee, might want to DISCUSS that.

I don't know what kind of haphazard grabasstic #### you've been doing that you call marketing, but in the REAL world you make a plan, and you work the plan. You don't start at ad construction. In fact, ad construction is toward the end of what needs to be done. You'd know that if you knew what the hell you're talking about.

Let me tell you something else. You aren't contributing ANYTHING right now. You're just adeverserial. Why don't you go work on an area or immteract or something you enjoy doing, and quit pissing me off?