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AudrielMon 23-Aug-04 02:21 PM
Member since 14th Aug 2004
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#5587, "RE: Reduction in power is not always a drawback"


          

"You say that reducing the effectiveness of summon is a drawback. To who?"

To all of the summoning classes, for starters. One of the main strengths of the Paladin, Shaman, AP, and Necro is the ability to summon. Shaman have it earliest, but require empowerent. AP's and Necros get it considerably later, and must work harder to reach the point where 'summon' is effective and practical for them. It is not an ability that is attained easily from a design standpoint.

If the effectiveness of 'summon' is eroded, the appeal of these classes is likewise reduced. This change would also impact the conjurer class. They will be less feared in groups, and conjurers will be less potent.

"Summon is a useful tool, but also is a tool that can generate risk free kills by gank. By all means kill by gank, but accept, as a summoner, that you will incur an element of risk to yourself if you do. The change I suggest would mean that instead of death by gank you have an increased chance of those attempting to gank finding themselves having to fend for themselves, or that two groups fight each other in a more even fight. ... Would it have been more fun in that situation if the use of summon had actually backfire and sent the summoners the other way because of the mismatch in numbers?"

I agree 100% that less ganking equals more fun. However, I think your initial solution will immediately affect balance for summoning classes and conjurers. I *might* settle for increased failure rate in groups of 3 or more - but only slightly. You'd have to convince me that the benefits of this added restriction outweigh the gameplay costs. Remember, there are already existing drawbacks to summon:

Some Drawbacks of 'Summon':
Failure Chance
Delay (lag)
High mana cost
Requires empowerment OR significant investment of time to attain
Can be negated by Conjurers
Can be negated by other preventative measures taken by the target(avoidance/combat/saves/etc)
Does not work in nosummon areas, of which there are many

"Why is it every time someone suggests a change everyone assumes it is complaining?"

I don't think you're complaining and I think you have interesting points. Any change will impact someone who plays the game, so virtually every idea will face some kind of resistance or scrutiny before undergoing more serious consideration.

  

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HOT TopicSummon as a ganking tool [View all] , incognito, Sun 22-Aug-04 05:03 PM
Reply Proposed FIX, NNNick, 24-Aug-04 02:01 PM, #54
Reply Though Normally we don't seem to see Eye to eye, Drag0nSt0rm, 24-Aug-04 06:22 PM, #56
Reply I like that, incognito, 24-Aug-04 06:25 PM, #58
Reply and I wouldn't make it 2 rounds lag, incognito, 24-Aug-04 06:28 PM, #59
Reply Well..., SandDemon, 24-Aug-04 06:44 PM, #60
     Reply Replies, NNNick, 25-Aug-04 02:29 PM, #61
          Reply Pretty sure summon is not 2 rounds lag, incognito, 25-Aug-04 05:38 PM, #63
Reply I don't understand you people, (NOT Graatch), 24-Aug-04 12:55 PM, #51
Reply Try READING Graatch. (txt), Larcat, 24-Aug-04 12:58 PM, #52
Reply RE: I don't understand you people, Nightgaunt_, 24-Aug-04 01:02 PM, #53
Reply You are the one saying overpowered, incognito, 24-Aug-04 06:23 PM, #57
Reply uh, permanewbie, 23-Aug-04 03:07 PM, #26
Reply Also, permanewbie, 23-Aug-04 03:11 PM, #27
     Reply that's not quite what I meant, incognito, 23-Aug-04 04:07 PM, #32
          Reply RE: that's not quite what I meant, Little Timmy (Anonymous), 23-Aug-04 04:21 PM, #37
               Reply what if, incognito, 23-Aug-04 04:25 PM, #40
Reply I'm more interested/worried in the 'recent' tactic:, Little Timmy (Anonymous), 22-Aug-04 10:30 PM, #7
Reply RE: I'm more interested/worried in the 'recent' tactic:, Straklaw, 23-Aug-04 01:29 AM, #8
Reply If by 'recent' you mean 10 years old?, Evil Genius (Anonymous), 23-Aug-04 03:58 AM, #11
Reply Notice the quotes. And sure, but:, Little Timmy (Anonymous), 23-Aug-04 06:17 AM, #12
     Reply RE: Notice the quotes. And sure, but:, (NOT Graatch), 23-Aug-04 11:18 AM, #17
          Reply hardly much chance, incognito, 23-Aug-04 04:08 PM, #33
Reply Step on eastern road, type where, Theerkla, 23-Aug-04 06:44 AM, #13
     Reply RE: Step on eastern road, type where, SandDemon, 23-Aug-04 12:50 PM, #22
     Reply RE: Step on eastern road, type where, (NOT Graatch), 23-Aug-04 01:07 PM, #23
          Reply RE: Step on eastern road, type where, SandDemon, 23-Aug-04 03:30 PM, #29
     Reply Sure, but:, Little Timmy (Anonymous), 23-Aug-04 04:12 PM, #34
Reply RE: Summon as a ganking tool, Audriel, 22-Aug-04 10:16 PM, #6
Reply RE: Summon as a ganking tool, incognito, 23-Aug-04 03:26 AM, #9
Reply RE: Summon as a ganking tool, (NOT Graatch), 23-Aug-04 11:16 AM, #16
     Reply Reduction in power is not always a drawback, incognito, 23-Aug-04 11:41 AM, #18
     Reply RE: Reduction in power is not always a drawback, Audriel, 23-Aug-04 02:21 PM #25
          Reply ok. Looking at these points, incognito, 23-Aug-04 04:03 PM, #31
               Reply RE: ok. Looking at these points, Audriel, 23-Aug-04 05:15 PM, #43
                    Reply I'll add:, Valguarnera, 23-Aug-04 05:29 PM, #44
                    Reply Maybe I'm wrong, incognito, 24-Aug-04 03:12 AM, #47
                    Reply What bothers me about summoning, Marcus_, 24-Aug-04 06:48 AM, #48
                         Reply Question is:, nepenthe, 24-Aug-04 07:37 AM, #49
                              Reply well, incognito, 24-Aug-04 06:17 PM, #55
     Reply and also, incognito, 23-Aug-04 11:48 AM, #19
          Reply RE: and also, incognito, 23-Aug-04 11:56 AM, #20
               Reply RE: and also, (NOT Graatch), 23-Aug-04 01:16 PM, #24
                    Reply I only need to read what you wrote..., incognito, 23-Aug-04 03:17 PM, #28
                         Reply RE: I only need to read what you wrote..., (NOT Graatch), 23-Aug-04 03:49 PM, #30
                              Reply you are still missing the point, incognito, 23-Aug-04 04:22 PM, #39
                              Reply RE: And yet., Balrahd, 25-Aug-04 02:57 PM, #62
Reply Only change I'd make is more cabal inners no-summon, Theerkla, 23-Aug-04 06:50 AM, #14
Reply RE: Summon as a ganking tool, (NOT Graatch), 22-Aug-04 07:06 PM, #2
Reply RE: Summon as a ganking tool, Balrahd, 22-Aug-04 07:23 PM, #3
     Reply RE: Summon as a ganking tool, (NOT Graatch), 22-Aug-04 08:28 PM, #5
          Reply It doesn't ensure a one on one fight, incognito, 23-Aug-04 03:32 AM, #10
          Reply I disagree fundamentally., Little Timmy (Anonymous), 23-Aug-04 04:19 PM, #36
          Reply Cannot handle?, incognito, 23-Aug-04 04:33 PM, #41
Reply I'm confused., Valguarnera, 22-Aug-04 06:04 PM, #1
     Reply A possible explanation..., vargal, 22-Aug-04 07:23 PM, #4
     Reply RE: I'm confused., Straklaw, 23-Aug-04 10:18 AM, #15
          Reply Why?, Valguarnera, 23-Aug-04 12:39 PM, #21
               Reply Summon can't follow the logic of throw., Little Timmy (Anonymous), 23-Aug-04 04:15 PM, #35
                    Reply Agreed., Valguarnera, 23-Aug-04 04:22 PM, #38
                         Reply well, if you call it, incognito, 23-Aug-04 04:43 PM, #42
                         Reply I guess it could be explained that way. n/t, Little Timmy (Anonymous), 23-Aug-04 07:06 PM, #46
                         Reply That made me laugh outloud. Thanks. n/t, (NOT Graatch), 23-Aug-04 06:40 PM, #45
                         Reply RE: Agreed., Hutto, 24-Aug-04 11:59 AM, #50
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