Okay, I agree arguing extremes is bad.

I guess that's my problem. The most fun I recall having in this game was before corpseguard and expectations of having a mostly full corpse. The game was fun for me when 'prepping' involved going out, killing Diana for a full set of brass gear and then going out and fighting someone. It was high action, lots of pks, and really low stress about dying and looting. That's not a debate point so much as a reminiscence so I'll stick to the format from hereon in.

1. The ideal situation should be between the two extremes, yes. Multiple full loot/sacs are, in general, counter productive to the game because that's griefing at times. I remember when the ghost code went in because people sat at the healer chain killing someone a dozen times just because they could. The old days were not all rosy, sure. People were asses so we put in rules to limit it. I personally would not advocate chain killing or full looting except in some rare conditions (Like say, the person who killed someone you cared about IC, or sacrificed something of great importance, or spat on your god's shrine if you're an evil priest or great betrayal.)

We are currently at the other extreme, where almost any full loot gets noted and talked about and becomes a personal grudge more often than not.

2. I concede pk action is better if people do not bandwagon 100%.

I disagree with the posit though. I think people are more likely to bandwagon because they know 'Unstoppable player X with (pick one or more) 8 pieces of proccing gear / perma A/B/S / a 200 charge unholy / hitting 6 times a around for DEMO's / lich who can become immune to almost anything / defiance and 3 healers backing him up (of which I recognize I was one)' has logged in. People log out to get out of their way, or log in to get in on the action. More often then not at some point that person who is causing the bandwagon was laying as a corpse before someone who decided 'Nah, I'll leave most of it' and so the next day it's the same thing. More people are willing to take the fight to an AP who just had his unholy sacced the day before, for example. There will be more fights as people actually feel they stand a chance (whether they do or not in reality).

Yes, very good players will still be very good and get back to their uber set sooner or later, no question. This would make their dominance more like a sin wave though with peaks and valleys as they gear up and down as opposed to our current path for most people which is a continuous upwards curve. We've become conditioned to believe that's the norm now.

3. I agree. Today, most people who full loot consistently are asses. Why? Because only asses are so dense that they don't realize or so self-absorbed that they don't care (Or are frustrated in the short term and not thinking clearly) that if they do full loot someone, or heaven forbid full sac someone, even for a perfectly valid IC reason, there will be a log of it up on qhcf within 10 minutes outting their character to the world as a jerk with a big target on his back now. Or they'll get a title like 'worthless vulture' or nasty Imm comments and therefore no immexp love later, possibly.

I guess what I'm trying to get around to saying in my own clumsy way is that I feel that there must be a way to have a full loot or even a sometimes full sac in the game without this being a national tragedy. It's a game mechanic, it's not inherently evil, it can be used for good as well as evil.

All I can liken what I see is we spent a lot of time throwing around a lot of antibiotics to cure coughs and mild headaches. Lots of people got together and said 'regearing is a pain' let's not do it. But that is causing it's own problems, namely, the odd super virus that wipes out (discourages enough to quit) players. There's a lot fewer people, but at least they don't have to regear as often, right? Can I prove that direct connection with numbers? No, but that's what I feel happened in the last few years.

It's totally possible I'm wrong, and I know I'm in the minority on this, but it's what I believe. Thanks for talking about it civily with me. I appreciate it.