There was an applicant when I was running around as kijah that could see me invisible and he was level 12 at the time. He then became a full member of the village at 18, and could still see me invisible? I only know this because a fire giant was telling me where he was at, and wondering the same thing. He tried to bash me at sumners crossroads while I was invisible. Did they lower the level for when these villagers could see the invisible from 25?

Just curious,
thanks.

If he is actually an applicant (has the title), isn't he prevented from using preps? As a full member, he definately is.

So either his race/class allows him to see invisibility on it's own, or you weren't as invisible as you thought you were, or they've lowered truesight.

My guess is that you weren't really invisible.

I had wondered who was playing Kijah. Now I know.

Next character, allow me to suggest that you challenge yourself in the following ways:

1. Don't full loot people. Just because it's hard not to.

2. Don't loot kills that aren't yours. Just because it's hard not to.

3. Don't trick out-of-pk people out of their gear.

4. Don't talk trash to people you kill or force to retreat.

>I had wondered who was playing Kijah. Now I know.
>
>Next character, allow me to suggest that you challenge
>yourself in the following ways:
>
>1. Don't full loot people. Just because it's hard not to.
>
>2. Don't loot kills that aren't yours. Just because it's hard
>not to.
>
>3. Don't trick out-of-pk people out of their gear.
>
>4. Don't talk trash to people you kill or force to retreat.


See, this is the problem with people in the game. they think they know something, but truly dont know jack about anyone.

1. Did I ever fully loot people? NO!! I never do, and never have. Strike one!

2. Did I loot kills that weren't mine? No! I did not. Strike two!

3. Dont trick out of pk people out of their gear. I didn't do this on purpose. Plus, i was going to give it back once I could reconnect, but couldn't reconnect. Dont be such a know it all who just proves he didn't know anything about kijah.

I was a half-drow transmuter and had about 14 or sokills. Cry me a damn river if you died to me. I took at Femur from the gnome in the bar. That gnome cried to the immortals, and i'm pretty such it was an immortal character. My next character that same gnome tried to give me something, and out of all people he picks me. There were other things along with that, but that's the jist of it.

Isildur, i thought you were actually the ok one who didn't assume stuff, and actually posted on things without attitude. But, you truly missed this one. I've play this game for a while now, and never fully looted anyone, ever.

Plus this wasn't the question for the forum. There is an elf villager right now who could see the invisible at leve 12 as an applicant, and could see me invisible at level 18 when I was 21. That's the question of the forum.

People assume to much, especially when they dont know what they're talking about.

....it's wasn't a svirf right?

If it's not a svirf, and you're sure they can see you, and it sounds like you are, then they must have had something active to do it. My suggestion would be to find out what it is (locate some detect invis prep on them?), try to dispel them and see what's on their affects list or kill them and check their corpse and then, armed with proof, enlighten the leadership, but keep it in game.

I'm not saying this is what you're doing, but when people come here asking open ended questions about their adversaries like this, generally it's because either they're clueless as to what the cause is and nothing is wrong, or they're just trying to get someone who's skiting in character rules in trouble.

Nothing to my knowledge changed about applicants, but then I haven't played a Villager since the second age.

As for Isildur, don't mind him. He means well but he's a member of the movement in this game that says that every person must play an honorbound preserver of other people's gear and must be self sufficient and upstanding and respectable or else they'll be publicly rediculed on the forums OOC as punishment. I'm all for more people playing villianous, vile scum who full loot/sac anyone they like. (Again, not saying that's you.)

Be sure to spell "ridiculed" properly. He is edjumacated, but what's worse, our English-language protectionist sect might collectively log on and chastise you.

As for his attitudes toward game play, it's all about keeping people logged in. Full loot/sac mentalities encourage people to bandwagon, and although that is good for Inferno trips, it makes for ####ty pk ranges and a short "who" list.

Yup, I typed fast and mispelled (or is it mispelt?) a word or two.

You got me, well done. Here's a cookie.

I fail to see where I trashed Isildur. I even started it off saying he meant well. I meant no disrespect. Perhaps you're a wee bit overprotective of someone who's perfectly capable and doesn't need it?

If you'd like to debate the game, I'm up for that though.

In my opinion having a number of basically 'elite' people who have an agreement that 'I won't touch your gear and you don't touch mine' leads to a sort of game where more people end up discouraged trying to fight the same juggernaut pc's over and over who, even though they die , pop up Team Fortress 2 fashion at full health and ammo 15 minutes later when they unghost who then charge out and do it all over again with no fear and no real disadvantage since they don't lose much.

I have watched awesome geared people turn into whining babies because they came back to their corpse after laying waste to 3-4 people before they were cut down and finding 2 pieces of gear missing. Then I watched people delete because they complained "I never had a chance against that awesomely geared person, they could kill me in 2 rounds with that gear." That's not keeping people playing. That's the opposite in fact.

Just my opinion.

Regarding Izzy, he doesn't need defending, but I will defend the idea he espouses, that "considerate gameplay" should be the norm. You attacked his idea through the use of a patronizing tone: "he means well, but...." Reading your new response, it is clear you did not intend that to be an ad hominem attack.

Now for the debate. First, we need to set a ground rule, which is that arguing extremes is counterproductive to a meaningful debate. Should I argue an extreme case, call me on it.

1. I concede this point: everyone has seen characters with outstanding sets who trashed a group but managed to die, and were put out that they lost their unholy. On the other extreme, our older players remember the day where gank/full loot/drop in our pit was the norm. I recall when I first started playing here the same Empire perma (healer/summoner/assassin/pole spec) hunted me down three times within one hour and each time stripped me down to my newbie breads. After a week of such treatment, I said "screw that" and played a different mud for two years. The ideal situation should lie somewhere between these extremes.

2. I posit that people are less likely to bandwagon if they are not punished unduly for taking risks. As a corollary, I maintain that the pk action is better if people do not bandwagon.

3. From my perspective, those who have stripped my characters are played by those who feel their characters are relatively immune to acts of retribution due to their builds or allies. Characters against whom I stood a chance were far less likely to empty my corpse. This leads me to believe that those who full loot/sacrifice do not do so out of an altruistic sense that it is good for the mud, but rather out of a desire to exert their dominance over others.

Okay, I agree arguing extremes is bad.

I guess that's my problem. The most fun I recall having in this game was before corpseguard and expectations of having a mostly full corpse. The game was fun for me when 'prepping' involved going out, killing Diana for a full set of brass gear and then going out and fighting someone. It was high action, lots of pks, and really low stress about dying and looting. That's not a debate point so much as a reminiscence so I'll stick to the format from hereon in.

1. The ideal situation should be between the two extremes, yes. Multiple full loot/sacs are, in general, counter productive to the game because that's griefing at times. I remember when the ghost code went in because people sat at the healer chain killing someone a dozen times just because they could. The old days were not all rosy, sure. People were asses so we put in rules to limit it. I personally would not advocate chain killing or full looting except in some rare conditions (Like say, the person who killed someone you cared about IC, or sacrificed something of great importance, or spat on your god's shrine if you're an evil priest or great betrayal.)

We are currently at the other extreme, where almost any full loot gets noted and talked about and becomes a personal grudge more often than not.

2. I concede pk action is better if people do not bandwagon 100%.

I disagree with the posit though. I think people are more likely to bandwagon because they know 'Unstoppable player X with (pick one or more) 8 pieces of proccing gear / perma A/B/S / a 200 charge unholy / hitting 6 times a around for DEMO's / lich who can become immune to almost anything / defiance and 3 healers backing him up (of which I recognize I was one)' has logged in. People log out to get out of their way, or log in to get in on the action. More often then not at some point that person who is causing the bandwagon was laying as a corpse before someone who decided 'Nah, I'll leave most of it' and so the next day it's the same thing. More people are willing to take the fight to an AP who just had his unholy sacced the day before, for example. There will be more fights as people actually feel they stand a chance (whether they do or not in reality).

Yes, very good players will still be very good and get back to their uber set sooner or later, no question. This would make their dominance more like a sin wave though with peaks and valleys as they gear up and down as opposed to our current path for most people which is a continuous upwards curve. We've become conditioned to believe that's the norm now.

3. I agree. Today, most people who full loot consistently are asses. Why? Because only asses are so dense that they don't realize or so self-absorbed that they don't care (Or are frustrated in the short term and not thinking clearly) that if they do full loot someone, or heaven forbid full sac someone, even for a perfectly valid IC reason, there will be a log of it up on qhcf within 10 minutes outting their character to the world as a jerk with a big target on his back now. Or they'll get a title like 'worthless vulture' or nasty Imm comments and therefore no immexp love later, possibly.

I guess what I'm trying to get around to saying in my own clumsy way is that I feel that there must be a way to have a full loot or even a sometimes full sac in the game without this being a national tragedy. It's a game mechanic, it's not inherently evil, it can be used for good as well as evil.

All I can liken what I see is we spent a lot of time throwing around a lot of antibiotics to cure coughs and mild headaches. Lots of people got together and said 'regearing is a pain' let's not do it. But that is causing it's own problems, namely, the odd super virus that wipes out (discourages enough to quit) players. There's a lot fewer people, but at least they don't have to regear as often, right? Can I prove that direct connection with numbers? No, but that's what I feel happened in the last few years.

It's totally possible I'm wrong, and I know I'm in the minority on this, but it's what I believe. Thanks for talking about it civily with me. I appreciate it.

Funnyone, take Isildur's comments to heart is my advice to you. Your non-sensical rant is so flawed, there is no point to even begin to deconstruct it. And I can't even begin to describe how wrong you are in some of these assumptions. Kijah was a heavily OOC char that I hope got cut a lot of slack under the assumption that you were very new. I hope you learned from this and I hope your next character will not be a complete and total douche.

>1. Did I ever fully loot people? NO!! I never do, and never
>have. Strike one!

I'm not going to invest the time in researching this, but I suspect at some point one of your characters has.

>2. Did I loot kills that weren't mine? No! I did not. Strike
>two!

That's not what the logs say, unless you've got some kind of definition for 'your kills' that can involve never fighting someone, and then looting them.

>3. Dont trick out of pk people out of their gear. I didn't do
>this on purpose. Plus, i was going to give it back once I
>could reconnect, but couldn't reconnect. Dont be such a know
>it all who just proves he didn't know anything about kijah.

Uh... yeah. You ask someone to ID some of their gear, they give it to you, and you immediately quit.

I'll repeat that. You didn't lose link, you quit.

You know who would think that's shady? Everyone. Count yourself lucky that wasn't my bust.

>I was a half-drow transmuter and had about 14 or sokills. Cry
>me a damn river if you died to me. I took at Femur from the
>gnome in the bar. That gnome cried to the immortals, and i'm
>pretty such it was an immortal character.

Pretty sure not, but you're such a ####ing nutjob that I'm not even sure why I'm arguing with you.

>People assume to much, especially when they dont know what
>they're talking about.

Yeah, I hate it when that Funnyone guy does that.

You know what?? I had alot written here, but i truly dont care. I dont give a crap what the imm daervyn or whatever his name is says. He's wrong. I dont care. Say all you want. You know nothing of me, but I know alot about you from your postings.

Look it up know it all. Tell me I fully looted? You base your words on assumptions and I could care less. have fun with your life

>You know what?? I had alot written here, but i truly dont
>care. I dont give a crap what the imm daervyn or whatever his
>name is says. He's wrong. I dont care. Say all you want. You
>know nothing of me, but I know alot about you from your
>postings.
>
>Look it up know it all. Tell me I fully looted? You base your
>words on assumptions and I could care less. have fun with your
>life

It's like this:

You made a bunch of claims.

I can prove more than one of them false via the logs.

Thus I'm not wasting my time to try to prove the rest.


(Edited to add: I realized I had already checked out multiple claims, not just one.)

>People assume to much, especially when they dont know what
>they're talking about.

Not everything in that list was directly related to something Kijah did. #3 and #4 are the only ones I had direct experience with.

>3. Dont trick out of pk people out of their gear. I didn't do
>this on purpose. Plus, i was going to give it back once I
>could reconnect, but couldn't reconnect.

I think I remember Kijah being online at the same time as that other guy some time *after* the point where you couldn't reconnect. Could you have returned it then?

You very much did #4. But, maybe that's RP. Maybe.