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DelananThu 17-Jun-04 06:20 PM
Member since 04th Mar 2003
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#4814, "The real issue"


          

The real issue is the absurd amounts of time CF requires. It's a steep curve - you can't really do much on CF with less than, say, 6* hours a week. Moreover, the sucky parts of CF (ranking, prepping, etc.) are mostly fixed costs and come out of that six hours first. Why don't I play much anymore? I've got a job and school and I just don't have time to commit myself to ten+ hours a week to get a good character going.

* - Please don't bother nitpicking this number. If you disagree, substitute it with whatever number makes you happy.

CF tends to be a very insular community, which leads to rather warped expectations of time expenditure. Try telling a random friend you put 100 hours into one character in a game and see what the look you get is -- I guarantee it's not going to be "You heroed in 100 hours? How fast!". That's like six days of doing nothing but waking up and playing CF. Stop and think about that for a moment.

CF is trending towards a game that has 500 players who play an average of 20 hours a week rather than one that has 2000 who play 5 hours a week.

I think the imm dancing around on the practice issue is generally a coy response to the fact that they really don't mind it at all -- having more people logged in spam practicing is only to the good as far as they're concerned, since it stops "too few players on, log right back off" syndrome that starts creeping in at off hours, and it's probably more fun to be an immortal with 100 people on than 50. But I think this is shortsighted in the long run, because having robocop logged in for an extra 2 hours spamming a day is going to add far less to the game than the guy that was driven away and doesn't play his 1 hour a day.

The immortals are a group of intelligent people. I have no doubt that putting an end to the practicing "arms race" (which benefits people who have the time to undergo utter drudgery at the cost of people who don't have that much spare time but would like to play anyway) would take about an hour of their time, to close all the spam practice loopholes and create a system whereby only 'natural' increases in skills are viable. Certainly, there should be rewards brought on to those who play more, but I think CF has skewed way too far to the "power to those who play most" side and it's hurt the game and driven away casual players.

Bottom line, my solution: ranking isn't too bad, but it's time to replace the practice system with a realistic system that doesn't hurt people who don't have 900 hours to spam bash. Easiest solution that comes to mind is that there's a hidden timer after a skill improve where the same skill won't improve again (exception: spam required classes like invokers). Problem solved.

  

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HOT TopicPracticing. [View all] , zod, Thu 17-Jun-04 04:42 PM
Reply RE: Practicing., Hutto, 22-Jun-04 03:49 PM, #87
Reply RE: Practicing., Mekantos, 22-Jun-04 04:54 PM, #88
Reply RE: Practicing., Nhiala, 22-Jun-04 06:35 PM, #89
Reply if you did this you'd also want..., incognito, 23-Jun-04 05:47 AM, #96
Reply RE: if you did this you'd also want..., Hutto, 23-Jun-04 11:24 AM, #103
Reply Level based, RealShea, 23-Jun-04 09:13 AM, #100
Reply RE: Practicing., Hutto, 23-Jun-04 11:11 AM, #102
Reply I throw in my vote for "Descriptors" of skill level. N..., Straklaw, 22-Jun-04 09:22 PM, #90
     Reply RE: I throw in my vote for, Jhyrbian, 22-Jun-04 11:27 PM, #92
          Reply Improvement messages, Clumber, 23-Jun-04 06:30 AM, #97
Reply Sounds like the topic of a new survey:, RealShea, 23-Jun-04 09:41 AM, #101
Reply Ranking, not practicing., Nivek1, 18-Jun-04 09:23 AM, #64
Reply Agreed. n/t, Little Timmy (Anonymous), 18-Jun-04 05:51 PM, #69
Reply The real issue, Delanan, 17-Jun-04 06:20 PM #39
Reply Oh and one more question inside:), zod, 17-Jun-04 04:55 PM, #25
Reply RE: Oh and one more question inside:), Zulghinlour, 17-Jun-04 04:59 PM, #27
     Reply Actually..., MIKEN, 17-Jun-04 05:52 PM, #34
     Reply RE: Oh and one more question inside:), RealShea, 18-Jun-04 08:56 AM, #63
          Reply RE: Oh and one more question inside:), Jhyrbian, 20-Jun-04 08:40 AM, #79
Reply Another subject on the same idea.., jaynus, 17-Jun-04 03:43 PM, #14
Reply RE: Another subject on the same idea.., Phaelim (Anonymous), 17-Jun-04 04:06 PM, #20
Reply RE: Another subject on the same idea.., jaynus, 17-Jun-04 07:19 PM, #42
     Reply RE: Another subject on the same idea.., Phaelim (Anonymous), 17-Jun-04 07:36 PM, #45
     Reply RE: Another subject on the same idea.., jaynus, 17-Jun-04 08:04 PM, #47
     Reply RE: Another subject on the same idea.., Nhiala, 17-Jun-04 10:01 PM, #49
     Reply RE: Another subject on the same idea.., vargal, 17-Jun-04 08:20 PM, #48
          Reply RE: Another subject on the same idea.., Phaelim (Anonymous), 18-Jun-04 02:00 AM, #52
               Reply Isildur's idea -- kobolds!, Little Timmy (Anonymous), 21-Jun-04 08:52 PM, #82
     Reply ranking and rp can co-exist, incognito, 18-Jun-04 07:51 AM, #55
          Reply RE: ranking and rp can co-exist, Vorgish, 23-Jun-04 06:57 PM, #105
Reply A reply!, nepenthe, 18-Jun-04 07:31 AM, #54
     Reply RE: A reply!, Valkenar, 18-Jun-04 11:30 AM, #66
     Reply RE: A reply!, Nhiala, 18-Jun-04 12:56 PM, #67
          Reply RE: XP for PK., Valguarnera, 18-Jun-04 01:26 PM, #68
     Reply Hero's all..., Cassman, 19-Jun-04 10:12 AM, #72
     Reply RE: Hero's all..., Valguarnera, 19-Jun-04 12:10 PM, #74
     Reply RE: A reply!, Bring_The_Pain, 19-Jun-04 05:12 PM, #75
          Reply I asked myself if this was serious, incognito, 19-Jun-04 06:04 PM, #76
               Reply RE: I asked myself if this was serious, Bring_The_Pain, 19-Jun-04 11:15 PM, #77
                    Reply RE: I asked myself if this was serious, Nhiala, 20-Jun-04 12:47 AM, #78
                         Reply RE: I asked myself if this was serious, Bring_The_Pain, 21-Jun-04 06:32 PM, #80
                              Reply RE: I asked myself if this was serious, Nhiala, 21-Jun-04 09:33 PM, #84
                              Reply RE: I asked myself if this was serious, Bring_The_Pain, 22-Jun-04 11:36 PM, #93
                                   Reply RE: I asked myself if this was serious, Nhiala, 23-Jun-04 09:13 AM, #99
                                        Reply RE: I asked myself if this was serious, Bring_The_Pain, 23-Jun-04 11:53 PM, #106
                              Reply RE: Distention, Balrahd, 22-Jun-04 01:17 AM, #85
                                   Reply RE: Distention, Bring_The_Pain, 22-Jun-04 11:04 PM, #91
                                   Reply RE: Distention, Bring_The_Pain, 22-Jun-04 11:39 PM, #94
                                        Reply RE: Ahh, Balrahd, 23-Jun-04 03:39 AM, #95
                                             Reply RE: Ahh, Bring_The_Pain, 23-Jun-04 07:54 AM, #98
Reply RE: Practicing., nepenthe, 17-Jun-04 12:47 AM, #1
     Reply RE: Practicing., zod, 17-Jun-04 01:06 AM, #2
          Reply RE: Practicing., Valguarnera, 17-Jun-04 08:37 AM, #3
          Reply RE: Practicing., MIKEN, 17-Jun-04 02:20 PM, #4
          Reply RE: Practicing., Nhiala, 17-Jun-04 03:26 PM, #9
          Reply RE: Practicing., Chalupah, 17-Jun-04 03:56 PM, #17
          Reply RE: Practicing., MIKEN, 17-Jun-04 04:26 PM, #21
               Reply RE: Practicing., Nhiala, 17-Jun-04 04:58 PM, #26
          Reply RE: Practicing., Valguarnera, 17-Jun-04 04:03 PM, #18
               Reply RE: Practicing., Nightgaunt_, 17-Jun-04 05:39 PM, #30
          Reply RE: Practicing (Ranking.), Chalupah, 17-Jun-04 02:26 PM, #5
               Reply RE: Practicing (Ranking.), Valguarnera, 17-Jun-04 02:58 PM, #6
                    Reply RE: Practicing (Ranking.), zod, 17-Jun-04 03:04 PM, #7
                    Reply RE: Practicing (Ranking.), Evil Genius (Anonymous), 17-Jun-04 03:22 PM, #8
                    Reply RE: Practicing (Ranking.), zod, 17-Jun-04 03:32 PM, #11
                    Reply RE: Practicing (Ranking.), Nhiala, 17-Jun-04 03:30 PM, #10
                    Reply Hehe, zod, 17-Jun-04 03:36 PM, #13
                    Reply Playerbase size, and content., Valguarnera, 17-Jun-04 04:23 PM, #22
                    Reply RE: Playerbase size, and content., Chalupah, 17-Jun-04 06:15 PM, #38
                         Reply RE: Playerbase size, and content., Valguarnera, 18-Jun-04 07:59 AM, #56
                              Reply RE: Playerbase size, and content., Little Timmy (Anonymous), 18-Jun-04 05:56 PM, #70
                                   Reply RE: Playerbase size, and content., Nhiala, 19-Jun-04 12:48 AM, #71
                                        Reply I can agree to this., Cerunnir, 19-Jun-04 11:34 AM, #73
                                        Reply RE: Playerbase size, and content., Little Timmy (Anonymous), 21-Jun-04 08:48 PM, #81
                                        Reply See my ne thread for my answers. nt, Nivek1, 23-Jun-04 11:29 AM, #104
                    Reply RE: Hehe, nebel, 17-Jun-04 07:27 PM, #43
                         Reply RE: Hehe, zod, 17-Jun-04 07:33 PM, #44
                              Reply RE: Hehe, nebel, 17-Jun-04 07:40 PM, #46
                              Reply RE: Hehe, Valguarnera, 18-Jun-04 08:05 AM, #61
                    Reply RE: Practicing (Ranking.), Chalupah, 17-Jun-04 03:53 PM, #16
                    Reply RE: Practicing (Ranking.), Nhiala, 17-Jun-04 05:03 PM, #28
                         Reply RE: Practicing (Ranking.), zod, 17-Jun-04 06:09 PM, #36
                    Reply Its not black and white., MIKEN, 17-Jun-04 04:26 PM, #23
                         Reply are you kidding?, incognito, 18-Jun-04 08:05 AM, #59
                    Reply Yeah..., Phaelim (Anonymous), 17-Jun-04 03:35 PM, #12
                    Reply RE: Yeah..., Chalupah, 17-Jun-04 04:05 PM, #19
                         Reply Leave the sarcasm at the door, Phaelim (Anonymous), 17-Jun-04 04:19 PM, #24
                              Reply RE: Leave the sarcasm at the door, Chalupah, 17-Jun-04 05:42 PM, #31
                                   Reply RE: Leave the sarcasm at the door, Phaelim (Anonymous), 17-Jun-04 06:37 PM, #40
                                        Reply Leave the sarcasm at the door - how about both?, Nivek1, 18-Jun-04 08:08 AM, #62
                                        Reply Okay, so you like ranking. NOBODY ELSE LIKES RANKING OK..., Little Timmy (Anonymous), 21-Jun-04 08:59 PM, #83
                    Reply to be quite frank, incognito, 18-Jun-04 08:02 AM, #57
                    Reply RE: Practicing (Ranking.), Lochzan, 17-Jun-04 03:45 PM, #15
                         Reply My pledge to you., Nhiala, 17-Jun-04 05:15 PM, #29
                              Reply RE: My pledge to you., MIKEN, 17-Jun-04 05:50 PM, #33
                              Reply RE: My pledge to you., Nhiala, 17-Jun-04 06:13 PM, #37
                                   Reply RE: My pledge to you., Nivek1, 18-Jun-04 08:05 AM, #60
                                        Reply RE: My pledge to you., Nhiala, 18-Jun-04 10:20 AM, #65
                              Reply this is more in re: phaelim, Chalupah, 17-Jun-04 05:54 PM, #35
                              Reply RE: this is more in re: phaelim, Nhiala, 17-Jun-04 06:41 PM, #41
                              Reply RE: My pledge to you., Lochzan, 18-Jun-04 12:14 AM, #50
                                   Reply RE: My pledge to you., Lochzan, 18-Jun-04 12:16 AM, #51
                                   Reply RE: My pledge to you., Nhiala, 18-Jun-04 03:26 AM, #53
                                   Reply As a spam practicer....., Laearrist, 22-Jun-04 02:24 PM, #86
                                   Reply RE: My pledge to you., Valguarnera, 18-Jun-04 08:04 AM, #58
          Reply I can't say i fully agree with Nepenthe, however.., Jhyrbian, 17-Jun-04 05:47 PM, #32
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