>
>>Can you remember the last really scary ranger?
>
>Hegobi, but, well...Delanan. If we move down the ranks from
>Hero there have been plenty of deathful rangers.
>
Delanan? Only one I can think of that even remotely scared me was Phinitz. Others could kill me if I got careless, but Phinitz had talent.

>
>>Or the last Orc that ruled the school?
>
>Nazgauga, but, well...Entropy. Grumplestein, Chuntog,
>Mordizzug were all pretty hoss.
>
I don't want to leak past chars, but I mopped up with all of these.

>
>>How about a thief that terrorized the populace?
>
>Barczack, but, well...Ehren. Nvranjol? Jubair?
>
>They were annoying, but not scary like Matrien or Wollscheid were scary.


>>An arcane transmuter that was more than a one trick pony?
>
>There are plenty of one trick ponies that I consider
>extremely scary. Rituuraj for example, but, well....Dale
>cemetery.
>
Never heard of him. And why is everyone so scared of the cemetary? They key ain't hard to find.

>
>>And when you compare these classes to classes such as conjurors
>>and transmuters that can feasibly be dynamos with only
>>minimal practice...someone high up must like playing 'em,
>>because if game "balance" is what you're aiming for...
>
>I found it far more difficult to kill people with my LG
>Conjie and air/offense tranny than with my thieves and
>assassins. Unfortunately I never hero'd any of the thieves
>and assassins, so maybe that would change my mind. But I
>killed more people from ranks 1-35 with each deleted
>assassin/thief than my air/offense shifter did over 350
>hours. Not for lack of effort either.

You're given me the sad sack with a LG char? And sure, you can sit at lvl 30 with a human thief and be the boss. Hell, I did it for a month or so with Enbuergo. But after you rape that stupid storm giant who just doesn't learn so many times, it gets boring. Let's focus on hero level play, alrighty?


>>I don't play thieves for the firepower, I play them because
>>I like being the underdog (and underdogs they are). I can
>>steal. I can annoy. I am quite a capable killer...but John
>>Q Average Cf'er can be five times the killer I am by
>>choosing air/offense as his next shifter form (not to
>>mention an instant built in cloaking device just by typing
>>"fly").
>
>Assuming I'm not a rager, can't see hidden and don't have
>perma-fly, I'm going to be more scared of the "competant and
>well-geared" thief than of the "competant and well-geared"
>air/offense shifter. Unless perhaps the shifter is acting
>as scout for a huge roaming gang. Say you're playing a
>warrior with a race vuln. Would you rather be chased by a
>Viornsra (sans acidic bite) or jacked by an Enbuergo?

Good question. Let me answer it like this: I would rather be jacked by an Enbuergo than chased by ME in an airform. If I fail the bind, or land a weak backstab with Enb, bye bye...anyone who has half a brain can run away. Fortunately, the recent trend in the cf populace is to leave their brains at home.


>
>>I would imagine not too many immortals watch me, not
>>being in a cabal and all, but I wish someone was trailing me
>>the time I tripped and killed Shilite, landing every
>>cheapshot, and almost dying myself just to his shield. If
>>he had cast a spell--even one--it woulda been coitans.
>
>To me, you just shot down your own argument with this one
>phrase, "hitting every cheapshot". You took a class like
>Invoker, which many people bitch and moan about being
>overpowered, and killed him without him having *any* chance
>to escape. There was nothing he could do but sit there and
>watch himself die. That's not overpowered?

Hitting every cheapshot. Have any idea how lucky that was? Even at 100%? ONE spell off and I woulda died. One. And I'm not bitching or moaning: I'm responding to a point about balance. When extreme fluke luck keeps someone in combat for several ticks (yes, ticks, not rounds--it took me that long to kill him through shields), I have a hard time hearing about how I'm shooting down my own argument.



>I think the point of miscommunication between players and
>staff is in what each means by "overpowered". Most of those
>who complain seem to define it as "difficult or impossible
>to take down in a straight up fight". This would certainly
>include classes like paladin, good conjurer, shifter, and
>invoker. I think the staff, however, consider a class to be
>"overpowered" if it can be used by a skilled player to
>*completely discount* opponents' skill and preparation. In
>other words, if you can use a class/race/cabal combo to bowl
>over highly competant people using an easily repeatable
>method, then that class/race/cabal combo is overpowered.

I still maintain I could do this with ease. And no, I'm not going to, so don't bother telling me to roll up a conjuror to see how tough they really have it.

>A good example of this would be Rituraaj and the Dale
>cemetery. When gaunted there was little chance to escape,
>even if you were carrying the key. So changes were made to
>disable this strategy. Another one is Delanan, the sylvan
>shaman with wall and insects. It's now extremely difficult
>to reproduce this combo.
>
>Given this, I'd put at the top of the list necros, assasins,
>conjies, druids, rangers, and maybe thieves and invokers.
>

I can see where you're coming from, but you're wrong on a few counts. Rangers and thieves are nowhere near the top "pure power"-wise. Smart players can do well with them, but could do better if they wanted *pure pking power* with other classes (by the way, shamen should but up there--just because we've had a rash of incompetant shamen lately doesn't mean they aren't powerful).


>Necros:
>Pros: Sleep + forget + curse + scourge/etc.
>Cons: Skilled people will see you coming and act
>accordingly. Also save vs. spell.

Unfriggin believable powers. But they earn it by getting an ass beating by people like me for 40 ranks. No complaints there.

>
>Conjies:
>Pros: Gaunts + wands + mazey cursed places.
>Cons: Skilled people will take precautions not to be
>gaunted. Furthermore, gaunting is a time-consuming and
>frustrating process.

Gaunts have been, and always will be, completely ridiculous. I will keep saying this until nail shut my coffin.

>
>Assassins:
>Pros: Assassinate.
>Cons: Not many. Skilled or not, unless you have certain
>virtues or can see hidden there's the possibility you'll get
>taken down.

No argument here

>
>Druids:
>Pros: The Hunt. What a crock.
>Cons: Limited to a certain time of the month. Skilled
>people will avoid wildnerss like the plague during this
>time.

Druids can be scary son. Trust me.

>
>Rangers:
>Pros: Snare + bearcharge + scroll use.
>Cons: People can *somewhat* avoid wildneress areas. Bash
>protection nullifies bearcharge.

Stupid people tend to favor rangers, although this doesn't really have anything to do with anything *wink*

>Thieves:
>Pros: Jack + steal + cheap shot + bind + scroll use. Ugly.
>Cons: Not many.

Cons: Only 4 skills to use in combat, three of which are disarm, kick, and dirt kick. Woo.

>Invokers:
>Pros: Invulnerable to most lag, insane damage. Quicksand +
>earthbind.
>Cons: Hard to lag others. With utility spells this argument
>loses force.

Not only does it lose force, this argument is busy pushing up daisies