>I'd disagree with you here, champ. I can pretty much site a
>definitive hierarchy to cf classes.

Me too, but I'm thinking it's probably different from yours.


>Can you remember the last really scary ranger?

Hegobi, but, well...Delanan. If we move down the ranks from Hero there have been plenty of deathful rangers.


>Or the last Orc that ruled the school?

Nazgauga, but, well...Entropy. Grumplestein, Chuntog, Mordizzug were all pretty hoss.


>How about a thief that terrorized the populace?

Barczack, but, well...Ehren. Nvranjol? Jubair?


>An arcane transmuter that was more than a one trick pony?

There are plenty of one trick ponies that I consider extremely scary. Rituuraj for example, but, well....Dale cemetery.


>And when you compare these classes to classes such as conjurors
>and transmuters that can feasibly be dynamos with only
>minimal practice...someone high up must like playing 'em,
>because if game "balance" is what you're aiming for...

I found it far more difficult to kill people with my LG Conjie and air/offense tranny than with my thieves and assassins. Unfortunately I never hero'd any of the thieves and assassins, so maybe that would change my mind. But I killed more people from ranks 1-35 with each deleted assassin/thief than my air/offense shifter did over 350 hours. Not for lack of effort either.


>I don't play thieves for the firepower, I play them because
>I like being the underdog (and underdogs they are). I can
>steal. I can annoy. I am quite a capable killer...but John
>Q Average Cf'er can be five times the killer I am by
>choosing air/offense as his next shifter form (not to
>mention an instant built in cloaking device just by typing
>"fly").

Assuming I'm not a rager, can't see hidden and don't have perma-fly, I'm going to be more scared of the "competant and well-geared" thief than of the "competant and well-geared" air/offense shifter. Unless perhaps the shifter is acting as scout for a huge roaming gang. Say you're playing a warrior with a race vuln. Would you rather be chased by a Viornsra (sans acidic bite) or jacked by an Enbuergo?


>I would imagine not too many immortals watch me, not
>being in a cabal and all, but I wish someone was trailing me
>the time I tripped and killed Shilite, landing every
>cheapshot, and almost dying myself just to his shield. If
>he had cast a spell--even one--it woulda been coitans.

To me, you just shot down your own argument with this one phrase, "hitting every cheapshot". You took a class like Invoker, which many people bitch and moan about being overpowered, and killed him without him having *any* chance to escape. There was nothing he could do but sit there and watch himself die. That's not overpowered?

I think the point of miscommunication between players and staff is in what each means by "overpowered". Most of those who complain seem to define it as "difficult or impossible to take down in a straight up fight". This would certainly include classes like paladin, good conjurer, shifter, and invoker. I think the staff, however, consider a class to be "overpowered" if it can be used by a skilled player to *completely discount* opponents' skill and preparation. In other words, if you can use a class/race/cabal combo to bowl over highly competant people using an easily repeatable method, then that class/race/cabal combo is overpowered.

A good example of this would be Rituraaj and the Dale cemetery. When gaunted there was little chance to escape, even if you were carrying the key. So changes were made to disable this strategy. Another one is Delanan, the sylvan shaman with wall and insects. It's now extremely difficult to reproduce this combo.

Given this, I'd put at the top of the list necros, assasins, conjies, druids, rangers, and maybe thieves and invokers.

Necros:
Pros: Sleep + forget + curse + scourge/etc.
Cons: Skilled people will see you coming and act accordingly. Also save vs. spell.

Conjies:
Pros: Gaunts + wands + mazey cursed places.
Cons: Skilled people will take precautions not to be gaunted. Furthermore, gaunting is a time-consuming and frustrating process.

Assassins:
Pros: Assassinate.
Cons: Not many. Skilled or not, unless you have certain virtues or can see hidden there's the possibility you'll get taken down.

Druids:
Pros: The Hunt. What a crock.
Cons: Limited to a certain time of the month. Skilled people will avoid wildnerss like the plague during this time.

Rangers:
Pros: Snare + bearcharge + scroll use.
Cons: People can *somewhat* avoid wildneress areas. Bash protection nullifies bearcharge.

Thieves:
Pros: Jack + steal + cheap shot + bind + scroll use. Ugly.
Cons: Not many.

Invokers:
Pros: Invulnerable to most lag, insane damage. Quicksand + earthbind.
Cons: Hard to lag others. With utility spells this argument loses force.