...don't hate me Twist After reading the PBF, I just want to shed some light on why some of us weren't shocked to find out Tavlin was played by an Immortal. Most cheating accusations came from people who get their ass kicked by a powerhouse repeatedly (which you did to most people). These two points are what really caught my eye.

-Within 3 hours played time, you received role exp (1500) and immteraction experience (500) and were inducted into Scion. Your character role and character hadn't been alive for even a full day of real life time (not game time).

Not entirely sure if this was a personal one-on-one immteraction experience, but that turnaround is lightning fast. Immediately getting role return and immteraction is pretty darn rare (I've never got that lucky, I'm usually waiting awhile for role experience...and get a handful of immteraction in the lifetime of a character). Not to mention cabal induction - I do understand that there was a post about lack of leadership... maybe I should write more roles that signal I know the First Age You mentioned "Other than the early induct and early Advisordom, I didn't get early rewards." I'd say this is a pretty rare and uncommon experience for most of us and definitely a reward. You obviously caught the eye of some people immediately (which you deserved) but plenty of people that do deserve it never get seen or it takes quite awhile. Also Advisor in 22 hours is pretty nuts - even the prophet dwarf commander took 65.

-The other one...

Mon Jun 6 21:10:51 2011 by 'An Immortal' at level 51 (275 hrs):
An Immortal added 1000 exp for: How did you get mummy, continue to be a reasonable badass, and never get any more imm xp love?

At this point in your life, you already had 3675 immexp. You added no role additions and got roughly 20 kills but did make mummy pretty fast (1 day for items turned in). Was it really necessary to give you a huge 1000 experience which puts you at more immexp than most characters get their entire lives (including Paralouit, Charine, Rhone and basically every "badass" RPer over the last two years)? I know the standards of what immexp is "normal" fluctuates over the years and per immortal but just seemed a bit overboard for 70 hours of not that much...


There's other little bits but not worth dredging up (M:TG anyone?). Anyways, just had to say something. I'm probably going to be flamed to high hell for bringing this up. I just wanted to bring up that you didn't have a "normal" experience. Which is fine...Tavlin wasn't "normal" but ya get the idea. Be gentle!

htf is twist able to play so many hours a week? I want his job. But my life.

Keep it up man!

...and uses it in an internet cafe all day! He lives in a box, so no mortgage, no phone, no electricity bill. Just all CF all day for him.

Just kidding Twist! Although, I am kinda curious.

Had it been any non-imm, the PBF would have been mostly normal, with the exception of the imm induction into Scion at level 18 and 3 hours into playtime.

Daevryn (and other imms), if you want to stop the conspiracy theories, create an environment where you and the imms are beyond reproach in matters like these. There are ways you can accomplish this without IP-stalking, as you suggested. Personally, I'd prefer you play the game (harassment-free) if you want because I feel that creatively expressing yourself as a mortal keeps you somewhat in touch with the playerbase. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, Twist has had several unsuccessful mortals since his return. However, since this one was SO successful in SO many ways, it's easy to imagine behind-the-scenes tampering (whether there was any or not). Tavlin was a stellar character, nobody is denying that. Maybe he deserved even more than he got, but being that he was who he was, matters were more complicated. It's like a politician getting his picture taken with a hooker. Maybe there's a perfectly good explanation for why he happened to be there with the hooker, but people are just going to assume the worst.

Some headache cures:
- log IP tracks, publish them in PBF. For all the bitching about this thing in particular, I'm surprised this hasn't been thought of already. Probably would save you some headaches.

- imm exp averages for a given day, week, month, etc. Well, maybe Twist got a bunch of imm experience early on, but was he the *only* person to get rewarded that entire day and by that much? What if one imm was in a good mood and just handed it out like candy at their own discretion for a particular day? This is a good idea because imm experience early on offers a nice advantage in edge picking. Transparency ends speculation.

- standards for induction beyond the current scope. I've had characters make it into a cabal within a few hours of playing time too, but I've also had characters wait 50+ hours to get into a cabal. There *should* be some standards to negate either extreme. A character should be at least X hours old OR have existed for X number of real weeks. For cabal leaders and imms, it should be known how long someone is an applicant. The longer someone is an applicant for a given cabal without induction, the more priority they should be given to get inducted, or at least put on the right path if it's felt they're not ready.

>- log IP tracks, publish them in PBF. For all the bitching
>about this thing in particular, I'm surprised this hasn't been
>thought of already. Probably would save you some headaches.

by this?

If someone's IP is tracked by an Imm (assuming that it's a command and not just something that shows up next to the name in a tell), log the character's hour life to be published in the PBF.

The idea is to cut off the argument of player A who says they were treated unfairly because an imm tracked their IP and knew who they were. The argument that you got special treatment because imms knew you by your IP would be somewhat negated by knowing that imms never did any IP sniffing until much later. Though I imagine it'd come in most useful for the former rather than the latter.

But I digress. Really don't care. Just thought I'd try to offer some solutions to mitigate this headache.

>If someone's IP is tracked by an Imm (assuming that it's a
>command and not just something that shows up next to the name
>in a tell), log the character's hour life to be published in
>the PBF.

Even if that existed, how would it help? Conspiracy theorists would just say that it had been edited out of the PBF. Reasonable people already understand that nobody cheated here. Unreasonable people are going to think whatever they want. Because they're unreasonable.

A) How does it negatively affect you, or anybody?

B) How does it positively affect you, or anybody?

I'd bet that the list for B is a lot longer than the list for A (which, I can't think of one thing to put in that list, actually).

I don't understand the purpose of this post, other than to try and ruin the fun of one of the Imms who likes to play generally well-liked mortals, and who is one of the only ones to fess up to playing his (which is extremely refreshing).

Another subset likes to have things work perfectly for them and no one else and whine like scalded dogs whenever things go well for someone that is not themselves.

These groups are not mutually exclusive.

It kinda cracks me up that Torak would start this thread seeing as how him and Gaplemo (both players with whom I enjoy their characters IC) have played the same cabal like 10 times in a row They even got busted for it once and almost busted a second time.

They are like the Crafted/Tongni perma v 2.0.

Crafted and Tongni can pk.

To be honest my problem with it is the hypocrisy of it. Not sure how long you've been around but forever it's been the mantra of the staff that we all play on a completely level playing field and they don't have any advantage, yadda, yadda, yadda. Meanwhile having played from back in the day there was rampant Imm #### back then and as recently as Cabdru which I think they've finally owned up to, even if they are still spinning it a ton. So it bothers me that they still play this card of a completely fair and balanced game when it's so obviously not. Just like the IP checking thing which for years they claimed only to do in extreme circumstances is obviously very common place and definitely a large impact on the players.
So you may not care that the poker dealer is stacking the deck. However to say I need to agree with that is ####, especially considering most of us are putting hundreds of hours a year into this hobby.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

>To be honest my problem with it is the hypocrisy of it. Not
>sure how long you've been around but forever it's been the
>mantra of the staff that we all play on a completely level
>playing field and they don't have any advantage, yadda, yadda,
>yadda. Meanwhile having played from back in the day there was
>rampant Imm #### back then and as recently as Cabdru which I
>think they've finally owned up to, even if they are still
>spinning it a ton. So it bothers me that they still play this
>card of a completely fair and balanced game when it's so
>obviously not. Just like the IP checking thing which for years
>they claimed only to do in extreme circumstances is obviously
>very common place and definitely a large impact on the
>players.
>So you may not care that the poker dealer is stacking the
>deck. However to say I need to agree with that is ####,
>especially considering most of us are putting hundreds of
>hours a year into this hobby.

IMMs (specifically IMPs) have put THOUSANDS OF HOURS a year into CF. THOUSANDS.

Just wanted to touch on that point.

Also, the IP stuff just cracks me up. Unless your name is Graatch, I don't think you have anything to worry about (hehehehehehe). I mean, without looking at IPs I can figure out who half the caballed heroes at any one time are being played by certain players. And I'm usually 75%-80% right.

For example, I may rank at the same out of the way spot with all my evil characters. Imm sees one character do it. Next time IMM is snooping random character and see them ranking in that spot, they are probably going to assume it's me. Another example, say you always do a certain rare quest with every character. You're probably going to know only 5-10 people know that quest so if you see someone doing it, you know it's one of those 5-10 people.

And finally, if the IMMs really did check IPs as stringently as you claim, I wouldn't even be on these forums anymore. Thror would have never started me on the path to Commander, in fact, I'd say Cyradia would have never dinged Jindicho (because if she checked my IP she'd realize I played several non-douchey characters right before that) and I would have never quit playing for 6 months.

I've posted way too much on this topic already. I'll let other people argue now.

It's not like Twist getting rewards precludes you from getting anything. The only argument I could see is if you wanted the Advisor spot or something and didn't get it.

What you want is not a level playing field; what you want is for me to stalk Twist's characters and make very sure not to reward them even if he deserves it.

Which, actually, is pretty much what I personally did with Tavlin -- if anyone else played a role contest winning, constant RP standout, constant PK standout, cabal leader character I'd push like hell for them to get a lichquest.

And that's still not good enough for you, so #### it.

Honestly, Here's my opinion on this whole matter. Twist always plays quality mortals, Dupmasione, Hanord, Hunsobo, now Tavlin. Yes, I named his most famous, because I've interacted with three of the four, and each was great, both friendly and enemy. It's only a small percentage of the playerbase who have a problem with it, so screw them. Those of us who are mature enough to realize yeah, He "MIGHT" have somewhat of an advantage being an IMM, he still has loads more experience and skill than us, and that's why he shines out, even more than any other IMM who plays mortals.

I say stop ####footing around, and reward everyone like they deserve it, whether you know it's an IMM or not. If someone has a problem with it, just ask them to play quality characters more often, and the rewards will come their way. Simple.

Edit to add: I think he should've gotten Lich anyway. He deserves it, for playing great mortals, being a great IMM, and dealing with #### like he did for Tavlin. You're the man, Twist.

No one remembers his crappy chars (except me!), Bonthos (TRIB Fire AP) was meh, Balthudar was alright but no powerhouse or badass, and I won't even get into his BATTLE assassin (I don't want to hurt his feelings).

I'm sure he's played plenty of mediocre chars since he returned. But as I said, no one wants to talk about those chars because that would ruin their conspiracy theories.

Twist is one of the five best players on CF though.

I know he does, but hey, everyone does....If anyone remember Mestrikia, my elf invoker, she completely failed. Con death at 37...shougrah was me. But I do play some Semi-Decent characters, like Sirak (although my freaking computer died.) but My good characters when put next to his...Sirak next to Tavlin. Twist wins! I bet Bonthos would've killed Mestrikia. But hey, I'm just saying is, IMM's should stop worrying about making the few angry by rewarding another possible IMM's character, if they deserve it, give it to them. That's all I'm saying

BTW, you can always remember me, too

Seriously. Mad respect for trying something different.

At least it was only 3-2 in your favor at the end as well

Thanks man, definitely my most fun character so far. Who did I interract with you as Sirak, anyway? Kinda curious.

Dying without the head behind Cents still sucks, even when you love the character

I know your pain, my last villager got stuck so many times by Cents, while trying to get mage kills. You were a classy enemy, if only I had been able to complete Sirak's life. So many things gone with that laptop.

>Twist is one of the five best players on CF though.

I've said for a long, long time that if I were forced to pick a single best, it would be Twist because almost everyone else who's a consistent standout has a much more limited range.

But that's just me.

Jaguab a close second, with Twist in third, Intronan fourth, and whoever played Mharr/Tanith fifth

You're tied for sixth by the way. You just don't play chars longer than 150 hrs

.

nt

Not what I'm saying at all. It really has nothing to do with Twist, and more about heaping rewards over and over on the same char while the vast majority see nothing. Twist just happens to have great char. I'm not saying don't reward him, I'm saying does a already powerful char need a 3rd legacy and a 3rd spec and 3 extra cabal edges and 20k Imm Xp so they can get every warrior edge there is? While I see other well played characters who are lucky if they get a custom title. Take Sivyh for example, I think everyone can agree he was an excellently RP/PK character, who was extremely long lived, and played in good times and bad. He got jack #### as rewards compared to Tavlin except a custom title. Also you of all people should stop playing the victim card every time this is brought up. Also I wouldn't have had an issue with Tavlin getting a Lich quest, what I would have had issue is if you gave him the +con spell on top of him liching.

P.S. I don't get the "HOW DARE YOU EVEN QUESTION THESE THINGS!?" outrage I'm getting from these posts(mostly from a few players). I know it's not a democracy but I shouldn't players be able to express their opinions on things like this and be allowed to question things from time to time?

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

...you're saying that Tavlin as a lich without RoC would have been *more* fair than Tavlin as a mummy with RoC?

Just want to be clear that you are actually saying that.

Yes because any well RP'd necro should get a Lich quest so to me that's fair, and Tavlin was definately well RP'd enough to get one. Getting granted bonus skills/spells/edges above and beyond something like that is what I have the issue with.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

of what would be fair. You do realize RoC granted Tavlin nothing, right? And that being a lich instead of a mummy would have made Tavlin far, far more deadly?

What forest?! All I see are these stupid trees everywhere!

Are you saying a spell that lets a character who will never, ever run out of CON gradually recover that CON by request-like lagging himself in probably dangerous locations isn't a big help?

I'm getting jaded by how ungrateful you are for your many rewards!

I believe you have every right to every perk a normally well played character would get. Why shouldn't you Lich? I think being able to restore your Con on Tavlin was extremely OP. Look you were very tough as Tavlin, but not unbeatable. Eventually we could have con killed you and ended the rain of terror at a con a pop. But if you can have a chance to give yourself con back with each kill? How is that not OP?

My biggest qualm is characters like Rhone, Ghurlzgred, Sivyh, Mhladramn(sp?), Mundin. All long lived impressive characters got pretty much nothing in terms of rewards, but a Flaayin, Paralouit or a Tavlin get Monty Halled for lack of a better term. Just seems like a big disconnect. I'm not saying your characters shouldn't be rewarded but why not the other ones? Just seems like Imm/Ex-Imm seem to be the ones with the big rewards while other deserving char get next to nothing.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

>But if you can have a chance to give
>yourself con back with each kill? How is that not OP?

And he wasn't the first person to get it. Many liches have had it prior to Tavlin. Also in the case of a mummy, it's about 1/3rd as effective as on a lich. So even if you used it on every kill you made you won't be getting con for it.

>Eventually we could have con killed you and ended the rain of
>terror at a con a pop.

And these days, his reign of terror would end at a specific time, since even the undead "age die" now.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

Wait I thought mummies are 1 death 1 con? Did that get changed so they are 1/3 like everyone else?
With the spell though it's basically guranteed he will age die, instead of being able to con kill him(Not that it would be an easy task but at least possible). That still seems like an insanely good perk to me.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

Is what he is saying.

He is saying RoC isn't full proof to get CON even on a lich. It's even WORSE (1/3 as effective) on a mummy.

Mummies have been 2 deaths to a con for a long while now. It's one of their few upsides vs. a lich.

Realistically, no, no one would have ever run Tavlin out of con, not even if he somehow got an extra thousand hours to play, not even if he got full looted.

Did you even *read* my goodbye thread? SO many of the points you are trying to make I already addressed there.

Tavlin deleted with 19 CON and I still had a train left. I'd been killed precisely twice in about a month.

There's no way anyone was going to con kill me. If I had such a bad run that I dropped 37 deaths prior to age death/boredom, I'd have simply deleted.

Cotzibue got RoC before me. For nothing other than being a long-lived character that was pretty cool. Mine came with a pricetag of 2000 gold (which, thanks to Tavlin's in-game contacts and already hefty bank account, wasn't a terrible burden). The difficulty isn't really the point. The point is that a non-imm-played mummy during the same timeframe received the same perk (and it was actually VERY useful to that char, as it kept her alive for a few more deaths) for nothing.

For Tavlin, getting RoC was essentially a RP mechanic. Instead of emoting doing nasty things to a recently slain victim, I could cast a spell that did nasty(er) things to that victim.

Your arguments are beginning to sound more and more silly, I have to say.

As for the other mortals you mention, I haven't looked at them thoroughly, but I know that Sivyh got tattooed, immxp from Enlilth, edgepoints (for a quest), 2 trains worth of hp and immxp (for another quest), immxp for good roleplay, a custom title and custom long desc.

I wouldn't have been opposed to him getting more, honestly, for how long he played the character. Against some really crappy odds at times. When his whole Empire essentially stopped showing up to support him. Many of them playing alts. But I don't necessarily think he got shorted.

Rhone got Shokai's tattoo, which is a nigh impossibility these days. He also got imm lovin' for leading the group that was the first to kill Tiamat. He got an OP 1000xp bonus for being long lived and a good leader, like Tavlin got. He got immxp for various RP opportunities and quests ala Sivyh up above.

And I wouldn't have been opposed to him getting more, either. But I don't necessarily think he got shorted.

Gurzgred got Maranated "early". He got edgepoints via a quest. He got Captain'd despite an early rage delete. He got immxp for RP. He got an absolute TON of immteraction via the whole Borkahd thing, and then a CON quest. All in just over 300 hours. And most actually was done pre-200 hours.

I could go on but I'm done.

within 30 minutes of adding my role yesterday I got 1500 immexp. I bet I get inducted within 30 minutes of seeing my cabal leader too or barring that I imagine the cabal imm will induct me within 2 hours.

Sometimes it just goes that way.

Sometimes it is like other characters where I go 20 hours without role immexp, never see the cabal leader and am thoroughly ignored out of no merit of my own. CF is weird like that.

I for one wish Tavlin had been a lich and people grew the balls to gank the piss out of him like they did lichees of old. A soft player base and anti-gank code allowed Tavlin to thrive.

This is just ironic on many levels - but a few facts:

An immortal can NEVER see an IP address of another immortal higher level than him. So while it may have been pretty obvious later in life, no one knew who Tavlin was at first.

It's considered kind of a "faux pas" upstairs in Asgaard for a lower level imm to ask or even talk to a higher level imm about their morts.

It might have been easy later to guess that it was Twist, but there's no way anyone knew at level 20 or 3 hours or whatever. There's no special flag that says "Hey I'm an imm flag my shiz!!".

Twist actually wanted to lich quest and I specifically suggested he go mummy instead so there would be no cries of unfairness about how that was handled. In many situations, Tavlin did NOT receive rewards because it was known who he was (again LATER in the char's life).

It frankly sucks that we have to go out of our way to not reward imm mortals "too much" and have to tip toe around things the way we do. But I don't know the solution - you can be like Daevryn and just be too burned out by the drama to kype to a character or like Twist and just weather the storm.

End of story, Tavlin deserved more than what he got.

I'm amazed Twist even finds enjoyment in playing, knowing what he knows. And not only that, he does it regularly with high quality characters that up the bar.

So, if that brings an extra level of danger, challenge and excitement to the game, I don't see how you can be against that. Actual cheating would have to be handled, ofcourse, but that being the case just seems unlikely.

It's more like seeing the same old guys keeping the same 10/15+ year old grudges alive and well, for whatever reason.

I'm not saying anything about him cheating cause I digged Tavlin and agree with you.

But you say no IMM can see the IP of any IMM higher than them? Like on Nukhav's PBF you said something about having a salty taste in your mouth that he had a well houred alt and blah blah so you guys obviously IP check. But I mean, Twist has played countless characters, I doubt you guys don't recognize his IP by now. And if you're saying it just doesn't come up even on the mort, then you would still know it's an IMM higher than you.

>I'm not saying anything about him cheating cause I digged
>Tavlin and agree with you.
>
>But you say no IMM can see the IP of any IMM higher than them?
>Like on Nukhav's PBF you said something about having a salty
>taste in your mouth that he had a well houred alt and blah
>blah so you guys obviously IP check. But I mean, Twist has
>played countless characters, I doubt you guys don't recognize
>his IP by now. And if you're saying it just doesn't come up
>even on the mort, then you would still know it's an IMM higher
>than you.

You're assuming that a lower level imm would get a message saying "You can't see that IP address."

Silly assumption.

Someone lower than me who could check IPs (which is not Reksah, btw) would simply see the IP address that Tavlin has played from and would have no way of knowing that was my IP unless they had jotted down "Ok, Brom was on this IP and Twist posted that he played Brom so that's clearly Tavlin."

Only imms of a certain level can even see IP's. Otherwise, they have to check with we higher ups to see if their mortal leader that has stopped showing up did so to play alts or just really hasn't been around.

> I doubt you guys don't recognize
>his IP by now.

Speaking for myself, there literally is no one whose IP I recognize on sight.

(What's much more common is a given player's playstyle is something I can recognize on sight, which I then may confirm via IPs if I have any doubt. For example, I have no idea where Funnyone plays from or what his IP is, but if I see even one tell from him I usually know right away.)

As a new imm it is disheartening to immediately face accusations of cheating. It certainly does little to encourage me to contribute in any way to the game.

You and some others are convinced there is a conspiracy here and no further fortification of the truth will change your mind, so instead I will ask you for your advice regarding the matter you felt compelled to bring up.

What changes would you see made to the system to prevent this from happening again? Would you have these changes only be applied to immortals, or to all characters?

Seriously.

Keep up the good work.

Seriously, I *never* said he cheated. I said people claimed he cheated - I just was not overly surprised an Immortal played a character that got insane early loving like that. I also said repeatedly, here and in his goodbye that Tavlin was an awesome character - it's just that his rise to fame was pretty insanely fast for most standards.

My only real suggestion is just some kind of standard pacing established. Randomly giving someone 1k immexp for really nothing is pretty nuts and probably should be looked at (a 33% gain in immexp, putting him over the top of most lifers, for 75 hours of 18 kills and no role updates?). As I said about the other, Tavlin did deserve the early rewards but it doesn't surprise me of his background for them.

I've seen awesome characters from many people and the love just isn't....well, normal across the board. I really don't know how to fix it.

Anyways, enough rambling. As I said I knew I'd get flamed for this but not this bad. Tavlin was awesome - he got some really nuts loving. I never said it was BECAUSE he was an Immortal, I said I wasn't surprised he WAS one. IT IS NOT SOME CONSPIRACY.

Sheesh!

Well maybe posting this who quest outside of facebook, many of us aren't on it would have encouraged more people to take part and Twist wouldn't have had to jump in and go with it. Seems like most people had no idea about it.
As for everything else, it just seems like certain characters get a ridiculous amount of perks and goodies while the rest of us get next to nothing. The problem is most likely that Imms know how to game a system in the sense that they know what to say, do, and write to get other imms to pony up the good stuff that most of us non-imms can't come close to. In 15 years of playing I have never had even my best characters get a fraction of the rewards that some of these uber characters have gotten. Maybe I'm just terrible at the game, but sometimes it feels like the rich always get richer. Not to pick on Twist because I do think he is a great Imm, but he fesses up to his char so it's easier to spot. But if I get one of these perks in an entire char life it's a big deal.

Hunsobo: Tat'd, extra Legacy, bunch of special edges, special desc, Emperor, RC winner, more imm xp then 10 normal char combined in fact in a 2 hour period alone he got 4500 imm xp which is 1200 more then my current titled char has all together in 350 hours.

Feilinal: Tat'd, Extra legacy, Cabal Edged, Sunwarden First nonrole imm xp 7 hours, ton of imm xp

Woldrum: Tat'd, Extra Legacy, Extra Weapon Spec, lots of bonus edges, RC winner, got con even before he finished his con quest, 10x a normal char imm xp, Commander of Battle

Hanord: Tat'd, cabal edged, Emperor, special desc, First norole Imm Xp 2 hours, probably an RC winner too, ton of Imm xp. Rumor has it Ckath wanted someone else for War Master but Enlilth stepped in and made them fight for it and Hanord won.

Tavlin: Tat'd, cabal edged, 22 hours Advisor, inducted scion in 3 hours, first imm xp 3 hours, RC winner(comment missing from PBF about what he got), special desc, +con power for mummies, was offered a tour of the Shadow Plane

These are all great characters, I'm not arguing that point at all and I'm sure I could find non Imms who have gotten some nice perks. Just sometimes seems excessive on characters who are already beating everyone's ass to just heaping the rewards on them like this.

My solution would to be spread out the love a little more and if there is some kind of special Imm quest maybe not always have other Imms be the main protagonist which seems to happen a ton. Again sorry Twist not trying to shine a spot light on you. Flame Away.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

>Hunsobo: Tat'd, extra Legacy, bunch of special edges, special
>desc, Emperor, RC winner, more imm xp then 10 normal char
>combined in fact in a 2 hour period alone he got 4500 imm xp
>which is 1200 more then my current titled char has all
>together in 350 hours.

Hunsobo (and several other characters at the time) benefitted from being an active character when edges were first introduced. So pre-edges, he was getting what would now be considered to be ludicrous amounts of immxp for things. At the time he was getting the xp, it really had no effect whatsoever on gameplay. This is part of the reason the immxp add amounts have been tweaked so that imms have a standard - previously some imms would give like 5000xp for a role they liked, and others would give 1000. If you look at other big name characters pre-edges, you'll see similar amounts.

>Feilinal: Tat'd, Extra legacy, Cabal Edged, Sunwarden First
>nonrole imm xp 7 hours, ton of imm xp

>Woldrum: Tat'd, Extra Legacy, Extra Weapon Spec, lots of bonus
>edges, RC winner, got con even before he finished his con
>quest, 10x a normal char imm xp, Commander of Battle

>Hanord: Tat'd, cabal edged, Emperor, special desc, First
>norole Imm Xp 2 hours, probably an RC winner too, ton of Imm
>xp. Rumor has it Ckath wanted someone else for War Master but
>Enlilth stepped in and made them fight for it and Hanord won.

Pretty sure your rumor is false. At least, that's how Ckath put it to me.

>Tavlin: Tat'd, cabal edged, 22 hours Advisor, inducted scion
>in 3 hours, first imm xp 3 hours, RC winner(comment missing
>from PBF about what he got), special desc, +con power for
>mummies, was offered a tour of the Shadow Plane

For winning the RC Tavlin got two edges, one was the cabal edge you mention, one was the edge that makes your PWK and PWD more potent.

Given that, since you're "not trying to shine a spot light on me" but are managing to do so anyway, I'd like you to compare JUST my own characters. Compare Tavlin's amount of rewards to Woldrun and Hunsobo, and tell me if you think they are equal, or if Tavlin got less than the other two.

>These are all great characters, I'm not arguing that point at
>all and I'm sure I could find non Imms who have gotten some
>nice perks. Just sometimes seems excessive on characters who
>are already beating everyone's ass to just heaping the rewards
>on them like this.

MY suggestion would be for you to examine the characters you think got a ton of imm rewards (not just mine) and see if you can find a common thread. I can. Almost all of them are character who were played to the exclusion of any alts, which in turn made it so they clearly played at all kinds of odds. Also they were characters that could turn cabal wars around just by logging in.

Three that I'm thinking of that got a fair amount of complaining about:

Paraliout, Niheriva, Flaaayin.

All three of these were extremely well rp'd, extremely pk-competant, and very good about playing regardless of odds. And all of them got rewards that some considered excessive but in reality probably weren't.

I think it was something like me promising two people warmaster. Or at least one of them. Then to have some fun with it I decided that those two should fight over it. Enlilth had nothing to do with it, no imm did.

I wanted the warrior to become warmaster really, and thought the fight would be super easy... The poor warrior ran out of detect invis potions and the bard used that to gain an advantage. Quite a big one, and won. Was kinda bummed out at the moment, yet I was laughing in my chair about it as the warrior told me that he had just given a prep-sack filled with detect invis potions to the bard minutes prior to the battle.

Always shoot first and then call whatever you hit the target.

Paraliout, Niheriva, Flaaayin. Has any mortal every admitted to playing any of these? Seems very strange for such power house characters.


Also just want to say I'm sorry again, I have trouble keeping my mouth shut and this whole thing came off as sour grapes. Your probably hate me now, and I guess I deserve some of that but I do still think you are one of the better Imms and I'm not saying you cheat in any way. What I think is funny a lot of people who bitched to me about Tavlin getting hooked up were pissed because they thought it was Nep but when it turned out to be you were completely ok with it. So the MUD still loves you big guy.

On a side note I think I need to stop listening to all the Imm gossip I hear, even though a shocking amount turns out to be right(plenty that is wrong too). I think it makes me a little too paranoid.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

But won't know one way or the other until they fess up

is that TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE they weren't played by an Imm.

I know for a fact Niheriva wasn't, and I don't believe the other two were either.

But I might be wrong! It could have been an imm lower than me that played solely from a different IP than they play their imm char from. Or another IMP.

It's obvious I'm not any of them. They all have way too many hours played. 200 hours on a character is a lot for me and to the best of my recollection I haven't made a character that's hit 300 this millenium.

an ex imm at that

great player

I am 99.9% positive I know who Flaaayin is, and he was never an ex-IMM.

He's also a former arch-nemesis of mine

Can you point out to me the post where this guy you're 99.9% positive about fessed up Flaaayin?

I am just saying, the style of both of those characters was a bit different.

I know who the Forsaken thinks played both of those characters, and I agree with him on Paralouit. I disagree that the same player played both of those characters though.

So what I am saying is I am 99.9% positive I know who Flaaayin is, but I'll never truly know unless the player fesses up to him.

And I'm pretty sure he is still buddy buddy with alot of the staff, or at least a few key members. So if anything that proves my point.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

Source/proof? I don't think either of those characters is really his style.

Because of the role style (Vermin - Khaso religion talked about hornets and hives), his ability to play an evil without being a douche, and the fact that he had a badass felar ranger in Sylvan in like 2000 (Flontinot...sp?) which shows he was comfortable with playing a felar. Also, from a complete heresay/rumor factor, I've been told Khaso works with the NFL and Paralouit stopped playing right when the NFL season started.

I DO NOT think he played Flaaayin though. But that's just me.

Edited to add: Both of them could have been played by someone like ProudBlade aka Valguarnera as well

I didn't see a huge amount of Flaaayin, but I spent a fair amount of time talking to Paraloiut and just did not get the Khaso vibe.

I've been wrong about this kind of thing before, and maybe I am again here, but that's my opinion.

gr

You're such an asshole now. I remember when we used to talk over IM's and you were all goofy and happy go lucky.

Now you're just a giant douchey twat. Go you?

nt

nt

...and that's mitigated by the fact he was in Battle (who needs all the love they can get).

Something you don't mention about any of these characters is they were all long-lived (300+ hrs) and leaders of cabals. If you look at a sampling of leader chars with +300 hrs, you'll find what Twist got isn't out of the realm of average amoungst those chars.

Seriously. This just seems like a bunch of sour grapes for you folks. It's like 'Waaah, Twist got way more rewards than I did, he cheats, you immortals are ####'.

Maybe the answer is just Twist is that much better at CF than you.

No offense but between you and daurwyn we could see who suckles the Imm nuts the hardest, and I think you'd win, so I'm not really shocked you disagree. I never said Twist cheats, I said Imms tend to heap rewards on the same characters.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

Yeah, I love the IMMs so much I posted a 7000 word diatribe against several of them and quit the game for 5 months.

The answer to this is, I'm mature enough (most of the time) to look at things objectively, and it's obvious that you along with several other players cannot (or will not...I'm unsure). Do I think Twist has advantages over 99% of the mortals on CF? Yes, because Twist HAS PLAYED THIS GAME SINCE IT WAS IN BETA. He doesn't have to be an IMP to be a badass player. He's forgotten more things than I've probably ever learned on CF.

Sometimes the RNG is not in your favor. And that's not just on skills/battles, that's in everyday CF life. You could have an awesome role idea for a class/race, and it would play completely different at two different times of the year based on who your enemies would be, who is playing those enemies, who your allies would be, who is playing those allies, etc.

I'd argue someone like Yhorian or Shamamman has received just as much love from the IMMs throughout all of their characters, but those dudes aren't as good at PK or aren't IMMs (heh) so they don't catch any flak.

x

Seriously. His roles are OMFGBBQ good.

He has (had?) a talent for coming up with a character/RP concept that would set him clearly apart from all other characters of the time, in a good way, and put the energy into it in play to really bring it to life.

Like, I thought I was a good writer, and then I read some of his roles.

I felt like I just flunked 8th grade English

I would argue that the no-longer-playing Jaguab is also great at what you described, but as stated, he no longer plays.

But you're right, I should give him more credit than that. Lightmage is also BY FAR the best shifter player in CF history. And it's really not even a contest.

>If
>you look at a sampling of leader chars with +300 hrs, you'll
>find what Twist got isn't out of the realm of average amoungst
>those chars.

This. If you're leader leader (not like provincial or sect leader but at the very top level of your cabal) and you're long lived and you're decent at RP or PK at all, some kind of love will tend to flow to you.

Some people tend to play characters that are more purely invested into PK or are more under the radar. They tend not to get as much stuff. I'm certainly in this mold myself - I'd be hard pressed to name the last character of mine that got some kind of extra thing that didn't come from a role contest win.

You have to also consider that I'm probably one of the more notorious "gift whore" Imms that can tend to overdo it with rewards.

I had just returned to the game when Woldrun (whom I had no clue was Twist) was Battle leader and had launched a Thror returns quest which highly involved him, Susubienko and several other characters.

Leader characters are observed, rewarded and scrutinized more than any other character. Have them be long-lived and the rewards might seem like a bit much.

Yes but what I like about you is that you are very good about spreading the love. I honestly think the village is usually one of the best examples of fairly rewarding lots of people instead of piling it on one or two favorites.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

See this is where I have the issue. Take my example of Sivyh he age died and was very good rp/pk and was a game changer but as far as I see he got no perks at all. Also others like Mharlndarn, Rhone, Ghurzghred, to a lesser extent Mundin. All long lived leaders who were above average and got no special perks at all as far as I can see. That's where I'm seeing the disconnect.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

I don't think there was any wrong-doing. Nor do I think Torak was saying there was. He was pointing out that people might get that idea, though. Don't sweat it Reksah, everyone is glad that both you and Twist are around.

Many players feel like they get overlooked though. I feel like it quite a bit, insofar as rewards go.

I've never had an extra legacy, cool ability, quest form, etc., and I've played since the mid-90's and have led cabals, had oodles of tats, etc. It's those ultra-cool (beyond tat), UNIQUE things that everyone would like to get more of a piece of.

I think most of us realize that's just the way the cookie crumbles and it's not really anyone's fault.

I've had several extra legacies, quest skills, long-titles, etc....

...but until my most recent char, I had never gotten tattoed And I had to continuously whore myself out to Twist to get it (seriously, it was like my third follower of his).

I actually would rather have a tattoo than a quest form/skill/legacy. But that's just me.

It's all about different strokes for different folks. You'll never EVER have the consistency you really want for a game like this. It's run by several different people who all have differing ideas on what is "great".

-Within 3 hours played time, you received role exp (1500) and immteraction experience (500) and were inducted into Scion. Your character role and character hadn't been alive for even a full day of real life time (not game time).


I am by no means a successful well-known player of any kind. I have a couple no-name heroes under my belt, and a bunch of relatively unimportant mid-level heralds I've had fun with.

But I have received role exp and interaction on my character's first log-on session before - so even though the induct is an interesting bone to toss, I don't really see this as any sign of anything. Extremely uncommon - but probably not unjustified considering the quality and especially the content of the role.

Splntrd

... so what, really, in the big scheme of things. This is pretty tame compared to stuff that's gone on in the past (Damn Iunna and her pfile fudgery!), and I sure as hell wasn't rolling a scion necro.

There will always be conspiracy theories.

Hopefully there will also always be Imms who are loose with the immteraction and xp.

Though i'm sure as hell there is some shady games behind the scenes, i totally disagree with your arguments. And this is why:

1. I am pretty sure that i am being threatened as one of the worst players in the game;
2. I am pretty sure imms quite dislike me (mostly for my topics on those forums);
3. But despite that, almost all my characters getting immexp bonuses for roles in the same session i've add them, or next one. I am getting from 500 to 1500. Keep in mind that my roles are terrible due to my poor knowledge of english.

So, knowing Twist, knowing his ability to RP, after reading his role - does that really surprising that he got so many immexp?

Lastly, my current active character got 5000 immexp at the same time as Twist (about 280 hours i think). And this is only a mid of my character's life (maybe closer to the end - but far not the end yet). AND keep in mind points 1. and 2.

And i do not think it is something unique. If you play, if you put effort, if you are effective, if you have a good role and stay in role - no matter of who you are you will have immexp. Tested by me - believe me, if *I* have it, everyone else should have *a lot* more immlove.

Edited to add: i'm talking about current rewards, where cap is 2000 immexp for something amazing, and normal rewards from 300 to 800 (while earleir i've been receiving and 2k, and 4k, and 6k immexp per reward, but as i understand, stakes are not so high nowdays and 400 immexp is good).

I also think he was a quality character and that sometimes, characters just have it all lined up for them in a row.

If Twist just played one mortal every 2 or 3 years and they were all rewarded this damn fast, that'd be a little sketchy. But he's played tons of mortals, at a very consistent rate over the past several years. And almost none of them reached the notoriety that Tavlin has.

And although most of them are very high quality characters, I don't think any of them were even really close to the standard of reward + power Tavlin achieved. Maybe Hunsobo and one or two others. And you can't even attribute Hunsobo's leader position to pure immproval, because Imms can't really rig the votes for emperor, thats almost entirely in mortal hands.

So I think its more that Twist continually churns out pretty decent characters and occasionally one gets recognized and rewarded like crazy, but I think other people who churn out quality characters in a consistent way could do the same. I mean, Reksah's already run his necro quest so I don't think anyone else is going to advisor in 20 hours, but...

Long story short, I think my point is that anyone who throws out characters with strong presence, PK skill, and quality RP is going to eventually get some crazy rewards on their hands too.

I don't think its really imm connections which made Twist characters so successful, though I suppose there's a definite advantage from seeing things with an imm perspective - you'll know which roles are boring and which roles are not, what kind of character is annoying and what kind of behaviors are not, and can freely plagiarize some really good RP ideas while snooping people

>If Twist just played one mortal every 2 or 3 years and they
>were all rewarded this damn fast, that'd be a little sketchy.
>But he's played tons of mortals, at a very consistent rate
>over the past several years. And almost none of them reached
>the notoriety that Tavlin has.

That's the main thing I think people always miss.

Without taking the time to search old forums / pbf's, most people will be lucky to name more than 2-3 characters I've played in the last ten years.

I've played probably a hundred characters in the last ten years. The ones where timing or luck worked out my way on the important stuff are the ones you can name.

I'd bet most people can't do much better with Twist, and unlike me he cops to most of his post-deletion which should make it ridiculously easy.

just out of curiosity sake

I can't recall any since your elf warrior and gay storm giant. Would love to know.

...and a Nexus Arial assassin.

He actually admitted to those ones.

kimemrak (neat role and 42-0)?

I think in another thread, whereas he says something like 'I had an assassin that recently autoed...'.

I may be mis-remembering, but he definitely copped to that arial assassin in Nexus.

And people still accuse him of cheating with that char. There's NO reason for him to tell you guys who he plays beyond wanting to enflame the conspiracy theorists. And that's too bad really.

Seriously, I don't even REMEMBER that char, which tells me Nepenthe was totally under the radar (which is probably how he likes it).

I also had a blast fighting him in various guises through the years. His battle scout thief and my first floofi invoker had some good battles, as did assorted lowbies over the years.

Only char of his I had a slight problem with was Cabdru, but that's mostly because your husband is a jerk and wouldn't take me exploring anywhere

I'd draft them as follows:
Fort: Reksah, Thror, Neltouda (we all know they need lovin the most)
Empire: Marcatis, Ysal
Scion: Zulgh, Enlilth
Battle: Twist, Baer
Outie: Iunna, Cyradia
Nexus: Daev (so he can kill all the other ones)
Herald: Scarabeus (for his insane RP skills)
And maybe get some others in there too, like Kasty and Amaranthe

I just imagine what those types of chars could do for CF, and I have to admit, it'd be pretty damn sweet. Exceptional RP skills, coupled with decent to insane PK. Yep. Good times. Plus, it's always fun to find out you killed an Imm's mort

Saying he has decent to insane PK? Oh mercy

Love ya Enlilth

Hah I love Nexus. Find a decent, competent, and relatively quiet Nexus character that flames out around level 30 and it's probably me.

Vanguard's about the most underrated cabal power ever.

We're playing their game and they should be able to have fun with it however they want. The only thing I don't like is when they don't take ownership in the system benefiting them.

I mean most people wait weeks IC to get inducted into Scion, sure there was a quest going on but...3 hours? Acolyte of the Fortress in less than 60 with cabal members that said you didn't RP often?

I'm of the don't pee on my head and tell me its rain crowd.

Yeah I agree with this, I don't mind them hooking themselves up within reason. But to pretend that being an Imm doesn't have these kind of perks is just insulting when it's so blatant sometimes.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

What it comes down to is: what you're saying only makes sense if you believe Reksah knew who Tavlin was that early.

Which, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe that.

Every post from you just sounds like oh boo hoo, so and so char got rewards before me or faster than I thought they should have.

You also cried when Ghrimriddor got battle leader early as hell because it wasnt your char and he sure isnt an imm.

>I'm of the don't pee on my head and tell me its rain crowd.

So you're of the "Reksah ####ing cheated to hook Twist up" crowd?

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

gr

Seriously. Just don't tell him it's rain and he's cool with it.

Looking back at my PBF, I was getting some pretty high rewards for only having barely over 100 hours. 5.6k imm exp. Don't forget I suck at this game.

Other characters that I feel I put similar work into didn't get nearly as much.

I think Twist is just good at the game.

Also, like you said, rewards in general just tend to fluctuate.

He had 2k Imm xp and was inducted into Scion within 3 hours of real time, was made advisor at 22 hours! This isn't being good at the game this is having an Imm. Also to say it was the necro quest, almost positive there was a hero necro in Scion at the time already. Love Twist but don't tell us that had nothing to do with that.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

And he waited before he rolled his necro. Reksah wanted a necromancer, if I had the ability to play the class and not have a mortal I probably would have given it a shot.

In this instance, the opportunity to get those early perks and such were there for the taking. Nobody jumped on it until eventually Twist rolled the necro. Can't hold that against him.

Time to roll up a necro? the Archmage of Eternal Night: The Omens foretell the dark horror of the grave. The next Advisor will be a necromancer, but there are none that have pledged themselves to our cause of that guild. Be watchful for signs, my scholars. -March 15 at 9:14am

Tavlin rolled on Fri Apr 1st. (That's kind of funny, actually)

IIRC, Reksah's bait didn't get a lot of bites, probably because Scion necro takes a pretty skilled player to pull off, especially with the heat something like this is probably going to put on the character.

Personally, I think anyone who would have taken Reksah up on his offer (so to speak) and had come forward with a decent role, solid RP, etc., would have seen pretty much the same rewards early on. The subsequent stuff probably has a lot to do with Twist just being the veteran he is, but you can't fault a guy for that.

Either way, it was all on the level and even after the player base pretty much ignored the golden opportunity they were given, someone competent stepped forward and helped put Scion back together after what was a pretty bleak time for the cabal and its applicants.