As many people witnessed, a person claiming to be a newbie had a meltdown on the newbie channel. I have my doubts it was actually a real newcomer to the MUD, as it seemed way too emotional to be someone just here to check it out for the first time.

That said, a few other newbies agreed and some may have ditched. The complaint: It's too hard to survive without a cabal and cabals are too tough to get into.

Thoughts?

Imagine you were a brand new player to the CF who didn't necessarily feel like sticking it out through countless frustrations and spend 400 hours con-dying five characters to get adept at it. (When I started years and years and years and years ago, I had the time and patience to do that... I wouldn't today, which is why I haven't even tried playing other muds for long, if at all).

Another MUD I once played had a cabal specifically for newbies and those who want to help them. It believe it did not permit evil players, but allowed good and neutrals.

The roleplay was it was a guild formed for adventurers and explorers. The powers were pretty much player versus environment... think explorer ranger minus wanderlust and scatter.

None of those powers compare in PvP battles to Nexus or Battle or Empire, etc. But they might prevent you from dying to bleeding or poison. Maybe anti-gang code could be upped for those in this guild (both offensive and defensive).

The joining could be automated, a la bloodoathing to Empire, and perhaps the mobs inside could give quests for exp or to illustrate game mechanics. Vet players in the guild could get leader spots with better, VERY exploration-useful powers or other perks as a reward for basically devoting a char to helping newbs (and exploring).

Thoughts? (Especially you new players)

I would love it. Not for any special powers gained but just to be in an association of likeminded players with the only goal being to learn the game.

Don't Heralds basically fill this gap? And if they don't, maybe we could repurpose Herald TO fill it?

sd

Yes, we all saw the thread where the sarcasm bug crawled up your ass and died. No, Herald is not at all what is described above. Maybe instead of spending all that time and effort trying to be witty, you should have read the post. I typically like you from what you write on these forums, but your reply was counterproductive.

The Inn has a niche that would not be attractive or fitting for a complete newbie for the following reasons:

First, Herald is mostly dead most of the time, it takes work to get into and requires an IMM/leader induction. Automated induct, perhaps with one way via a quest that starts in the academy, would help tons.

Second, the powers only help you inside the Inn, not when you're out actually trying to explore.

Third, it's less about learning the MUD mechanics and areas than it is about mixing drinks and holding events. The MUD's all the richer for it, but it isn't doing anything, at all, whatsoever, to make the learning curve a little less steep.

Fourth, if you don't like hanging around in the Inn now, wouldn't you be even less inclined if it were full of newbs still trying to calibrate their RP? For many on the outside, "RP" means everything said without OOC: in front of it.

Fifth, yeah, it would be work - but I can't imagine it would really take *THAT* much. All you'd need is a mob like a stationary Imperial Recruiter, a four-room area attached to Galadon or Dagdan (with a food/potion/map vendor, of course) and 3-4 incredibly simple and straightforward survival powers, like "create newbie bredz". Maybe one of the powers could be nice enough to be an incentive for the vets, but nothing crazy or complex would be necessary.

Perhaps being an auto-herald would not preclude you from being in another cabal. If you ever initiate combat within the inn, you're auto-booted from Herald. I'm sure there's a few other cases which would have to be handled, but it might help make the Inn a more popular place again.

Cabal duties in -other- cabals seem to take up so much of one's time, I can't imagine doing both without severely watering down what Heralds actually do, since one's "primary" cabal will receive priority.

What's more important to Aco-guy, his Fort duties or his Inn duties? It's acceptable to say Fort duties, but that's why this kind of thing would neuter Herald a little more than it already is.

Splntrd

Sorry

All day long I write emails that are written with a "sarcastic bug up my ass" that I then must delete in the interest of being professional and providing for my family.

I saw my shot to let the bug out.

I took it.

Let's still be friends, okay?

A.) Herald is the hardest cabal to get into because... well its dead and has been for a few years (rarely see a leader, not much in the way of consistant inn sitters anymore, etc)
B.) The RP standards of herald tend to be beyond what at least I would describe as a true newbie (even if they are all lesbian felars who use the hug social way too often)
C.) Heralds don't have powers that help them outside the inn.
D.) While I always assumed heralds were supposed to be more go out into the world oriented they are really just sit at the inn because they don't participate in cabal wars in any way. This kind of limits them to explore trips and sitting around. Explore trips happen less often and for the most part if players are just going to be sitting around for extended periods of time they log off these days.

>A.) Herald is the hardest cabal to get into because... well
>its dead and has been for a few years (rarely see a leader,
>not much in the way of consistant inn sitters anymore, etc)

It is hard to get into, just because of meeting leaders, but it is not the hardest. "Inn Sitting" is honestly a discouraged practice.

>B.) The RP standards of herald tend to be beyond what at least
>I would describe as a true newbie (even if they are all
>lesbian felars who use the hug social way too often)

I don't think this is true. Roleplay skillz are acquired over time, and through many different games. Most people who come to CF are already experienced roleplayers - the nuances of roleplay in CF are simply things one has to add to the pile of stuff they already know.

The hardest part of this game isn't roleplay - it's mastering MUD mechanics, PVP, and item/gear knowledge.

Because of this, nooby folks who can't regear but can roleplay fun characters get into Herald all the time.

>C.) Heralds don't have powers that help them outside the inn.

Being able to get a free beer in most inns across Thera is pretty cool. Otherwise, you're right.

>D.) While I always assumed heralds were supposed to be more go
>out into the world oriented they are really just sit at the
>inn because they don't participate in cabal wars in any way.
>This kind of limits them to explore trips and sitting around.
>Explore trips happen less often and for the most part if
>players are just going to be sitting around for extended
>periods of time they log off these days.

Heralds ARE supposed to go out into the world. Inn Sitting isn't encouraged. If someone chooses to Inn Sit instead of interacting, he has only himself to blame for being bored. And exploring and raiding are not the only ways to interact with Thera - you can interact in any way you can think of. A noob is not limited in this respect - except that they don't know all that they can do in Thera yet.

Splntrd

>Heralds ARE supposed to go out into the world. Inn Sitting isn't >encouraged. If someone chooses to Inn Sit instead of interacting, >he has only himself to blame for being bored. And exploring and >raiding are not the only ways to interact with Thera - you can ?>interact in any way you can think of. A noob is not limited in this >respect - except that they don't know all that they can do in Thera >yet.


Correction. You can interact with other people in ways they are willing to interact with you. Getting people to do things other then explore/gear/pk/cabal wars is a challenge mostly because a lot of people are only interested in interacting in those ways. The time spent on those activities is pretty heavily weightd toward the PK/Cabal wars side so if you aren't involved in those then you are not going to find as much interaction.


I am all for herald being more active in PK, if I ever made one it would definentally have a pk bend to it and would get heavily involved in cabal wars (what better way to come up with stories of thera then to participate in them right?)

>>Heralds ARE supposed to go out into the world. Inn Sitting
>isn't >encouraged. If someone chooses to Inn Sit instead of
>interacting, >he has only himself to blame for being bored.
>And exploring and >raiding are not the only ways to interact
>with Thera - you can ?>interact in any way you can think of. A
>noob is not limited in this >respect - except that they don't
>know all that they can do in Thera >yet.
>
>
>Correction. You can interact with other people in ways they
>are willing to interact with you. Getting people to do things
>other then explore/gear/pk/cabal wars is a challenge mostly
>because a lot of people are only interested in interacting in
>those ways. The time spent on those activities is pretty
>heavily weightd toward the PK/Cabal wars side so if you aren't
>involved in those then you are not going to find as much
>interaction.

While you're right about how people's activities are weighted, I think you're not considering how many different kinds of interaction there are. Sure - Getting 10 people in one place for some kind of roleplay mission outside of PK is difficult. But there are many more options you can take that constitute as interesting interaction ourside of face to face roleplay time, and you can interact with people DURING PK/Cabal/Ranking activities, too.

>I am all for herald being more active in PK, if I ever made
>one it would definentally have a pk bend to it and would get
>heavily involved in cabal wars (what better way to come up
>with stories of thera then to participate in them right?)

Active in cabal wars is a no-no currently for Herald. But active PK has always been fine, so long as one's problems don't become Herald's problems.

Splntrd

Maybe tweak them to have a power or two from the original suggestion, like purge poison/disease or staunch limited to their own use, but only if inflicted by a MOB (don't know if this is possible).

I think you might have to update their mission statement for this, dedicated to not only history and entertainment, but also to adventure (without war).

I think it would be really cool to enable some sort of functionality for heralds (especially explorer heralds) to add an equipment directory to the lyceum. It'd have to have restrictions, like no explore areas, and no wands (poison/trap ingredients up to you guys) - but it might go a long way to helping newbs gear without needing as much out of game help.

I feel like I could expound on these ideas if this is a direction you all are open to.

PS, I still remember my failed heroimming - i know you guys have a lot on your plate, so thanks.

Give them powers that don't affect PK at all. I would also lean toward not giving them powers that are useful for PvE because that will just attract power gamey, ultra-conservative, explore types.

The focus of the whole cabal could be more RP since the initial complaint here was actually that not enough people were RPing with him. Also it's easy to get good at RP and I feel like if people do that first they get hooked and will suffer the PK learning curve as a result.

We should give this new cabal a place they can go that is relatively safe so they can roleplay in peace. Maybe put some kind of a guard on the door that let's you in if you want to roleplay, but doesn't let you in if you're more of a killer type. Like if you attack people in this place the guard stops letting you in after a while, or if you're a criminal it won't let you in ever.

I'd go a step further and say you could put a mob in every room that will rescue the non-aggressor in a PK situation and then fight the aggressor. Maybe don't make it totally impossible to kill in this place (that's not very CF) but just a lot more difficult and potentially impossible to at lower levels.

Then give these newbies powers that make them attractive for other characters to RP with. I don't know - maybe they could put on little shows or recite poetry. Let them cook food and make drinks for adventurers or something. Maybe every once in a while they could do little "Events" and everyone who participates could get imm xp. (OP? I dunno.)

By and large they shouldn't accept evils - and really they'll be passive enough that as long as you're not a mage it would be considered bad form to continually kick your ass. If a guy were to join this cabal and be like a neutral bard he probably would have no enemies or at least very few.

This would give newbies a chance to learn the ropes in a non aggressive way. They could trust their allies in this cabal and probably get taken on lots of adventures with other cabals as well.

OH I KNOW! There could be some kind of, like, library or something where they could compile all the info they collect on their adventures. That way these newbies could actually feel like they've left their mark and contributed to the CF culture.

But this is probably all too much work for the staff. (Just think of all the coding!) It will probably never come to be, but we can dream, right guys?

Guys?

unless you play 4-8 hours a day almost every day

I'm inclined to believe that it was real because, according to the log on dio's, he appeared on the newbie channel as "a curious newcomer." Unless this is one man's conspiracy, I don't see a CF vet ever answering yes to the question that leads to that newbie channel status.

Anyway, I don't think the issue is that this guy couldn't get into a cabal, though that may have helped down the road. I think the issue is threefold.

1. Some of you don't RP. You'll bash down a level 11 character, take their coins and march off without a word in response. It's bound to make the casual observer question the "RP enforced" aspect of the MUD.

2. Some of you are pricks. That's just a fact. For every Twist or Isildur who tries to make the game fun for everyone, there's someone who thinks that their self-worth hinges on whether or not they can multikill the same guy in fine leathers who's trying to buy a boat at the leather shop in Galadon.

3. A lot of the finer aspects of RP unfortunately don't manifest until higher levels or once in a cabal. I'm not sure that a newbie cabal is the answer to this, though.

What's the solution? RP and don't be a prick. I feel like I say this a lot, but try to remember, it's a game. If you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong. I'll add to that, if you're screwing up someone else's ability to have fun (other than the standard sting of losing) you're doing it wrong.

Who are you to judge whether or not me bashing down a level 11 character is RP or not? If I'm a level 15 orc and they're a level 11 elf I am not required to give a reason why you get bashed down. Hell even if I was a level 15 human and you were an elf I still don't have to give you a reason. Maybe I'm mute. Maybe it's within my role to not give reasons to those who I kill because they're beneath me. Maybe you were a mage and I needed that 1 PK win to get Applicant status. Maybe you're a dwarf and I'm an Outlander. Maybe I just don't like your race. Maybe I just don't like your name. Maybe I was bored and wanted to see what bashing down a level 11 feels like.

Do people always give reasons why they do things IRL to the people they do it to? Nope.

RP-enforced merely means that everything done should remain within the confines of the game, i.e. in-character. It doesn't mean that I have to explain my actions to you. You are not an IMM or an ally of mine (at that point in time). It also doesn't mean that you enforce what you think is RP on me and expect me to follow it. It means that if I bash you down and loot your newbie bread and that shiny sword you got and then you go off on me about how I should enjoy my armors cause I'm the reason why this game has less players then one of us is RPing and the other is taking it OOC.

>Who are you to judge whether or not me bashing down a level
>11 character is RP or not?

I don't think he's saying your bashing down a level 11 guy is bad RP. His complaint is more about the refusal to interact afterwards. I'm with you; you don't always need to explain yourself. At the same time, if the dude is like, "Why did you kill me?" and you won't even give him the time of day...that's weak.

You don't have to launch into a philosophical treatise. Just be like, "Elf taste gud. Smash elf make orc happy. Like eat brains."

I don't care who is bashing down whom at level 11. I just think that the frequent lack of interaction is pretty lame. I also think that a lot of the pricks who play CF use "I'm an evil loner, grrrr," as an excuse to not Rp. I think that's doubly lame.

And in a novel, readers will get dissatisfied if there are no explanations. So there definitely should be interaction after PK.

>I'm inclined to believe that it was real because, according
>to the log on dio's, he appeared on the newbie channel as "a
>curious newcomer." Unless this is one man's conspiracy, I
>don't see a CF vet ever answering yes to the question that
>leads to that newbie channel status.

Without commenting on the rest of this, I can say for sure that some veteran players pick the newbie choice, I won't say most of the time, but not rarely.

Either that or there exist some 'new to CF' people who can give advice on the newbie channel and run 20-0 in PK.

Why, I couldn't tell you.

it was like 3 am in the morning when I rolled him up and I hit y on the wrong question by accident and I didn't care enough to reroll once I figured out my mistake.

But I definitely wasn't even close to 20-0, maybe more like 0-20, so I'm probably not that guy you're talking about.

if you select newbie, you get one free recall from a cursed zone before lvl 10

OTOH you can't turn on brief mode. I like brief mode more than a free recall.

> cabals are too tough to get into.

Clearly this is a lie spread by the Maran heathens to sabotage Imperial recruitment efforts.

I suspect Eavesdropping

I suspect Eavesdropping

In fact, if you want to live longer you're usually better off not joining a cabal at all. This was especially true for me once I hit hero with my first character. At the hero range levels most of the game is centered around cabal raiding. If you're part of one of the cabals that's a part of this, which is every cabal except Herald, your chances of dying in PK are increased.

If you're thinking well hey I just want to have allies on my way to hero, then you're still usually better off not joining a cabal. Because again as long as you're part of a cabal if there's someone during a raid or counter-raid who is in your PK range, you're expected to come deal with that person. Unless you're seriously outnumbered. And even if there's no one in your PK range from the opposing cabal, you can bet that some random dude in your PK who's checking out the cabals for raids will show up out of nowhere just to PK you.

In short, if you're part of a cabal it makes it that much easier for your enemies to find you. In my opinion you're usually better off making allies outside of being in a cabal. This is obviously a lot easier as a good-aligned character. But you can do it with neutral and evil as well. Like the people who you form groups with.

The only cabals that are really hard for a new player to join, imho, are probably:
Battle (PK requirement + recommendations + Battle history knowledge + whatever other hoops they got)
Scion (10 player limit + game knowledge/competency)
Fortress (Maran (PK requirement))

But that still leaves you with Tribunal, Outlander, Empire, Herald and Fortress (Acolyte).

Empire, Tribunal, and Outlander have ethos/alignment restrictions. Tribunal is Orderly only. Outlander is any ethos/align except for Orderly. Empire is Orderly Evil but taking the bloodoath from any PC automatically changes your ethos/alignment to the correct one for the cabal. Herald will take anybody. Being evil makes it harder to get in though.

EDIT: It should go without saying that Fortress has an alignment restriction in that GOOD ONLY.

>Another MUD I once played had a cabal specifically for newbies
>and those who want to help them. It believe it did not permit
>evil players, but allowed good and neutrals.

Herald is kinda like this in some ways. It's not specifically for newbies, but you kinda can't fail to get in (within reason) and it's just kind of a kick back and relax thing.

That said, I really don't think being in a cabal helps you die less in CF. What it does give you is a bunch of people to give you advice if they're in the mood. I'd be in favor of an easy in easy out model, except that then you'll *really* be making people mad and driving them away. A newbie who gets kicked out of a cabal for not understanding some cabal rule (what, you mean anti-paladins count as mages?) is going to be more annoyed than if he never got in.

If anything were to be done along these lines, it would be just adding an "explorer" path to the heralds that gives some kind of pve powers. Not sure what those would be. Certainly immunity to bleed or poison death is too strong. Anti-gang code won't help newbies that much because they're dieing to solo killers just as much.

Good explorer/newbie powers are things like:
For exploring:
Confounding - Mobs are slow to attack when chasing
Sensitive - You can see if mobs are aggro on scan
Lifeline - word of recall from cursed area (not in affects) every 24 hours with 8-round pre-lag

For PK:
Dangersense - as exists
Outclassed - If your opponent reduces your health by 80% and you reduce his by less than 20% from first hit until up to 5 ticks, all damage results in lag cleared and wimpy firing.
Tough - Leader con

Outclassed is really too overpowered in some situations and useless in others, but I kind of like it as way of throwing a bone to newbies who just get completely steamrolled. Basically it's an attempt to say that if the fight isn't even close to even, the wimpy guy gets a chance to escape.

Damn, I like those ideas.