Just a random thought, but does anyone else randomly get very irritated at this phrase, and would prefer that it read along the lines of:

You are stunned, and are about to die horribly.

Like I said, random.

I at least would be in favor of changing the echo to something that better describes the situation and probable outcome. I like your suggestion a lot, here's another twist on it:

X (You) is (are) stunned, and barring some unforeseen stroke of luck, about to die (horribly =).

I changed it slightly for next reboot.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

What a disaster that little OCDness of mine caused

That we could flip and combat would stop on stunned or dying opponents who's condition was caused by us.

Reminds me of Godwars, where combat is stopped and you have to actually execute the person when they hit zero.

Very annoying if they could regenerate.

As I am talking about you the player deciding if you kill or spare your victim, not if the victim get's to decide.

Don't want to have to type kill an extra time? Don't toggle mercy on.

A-Ps and other characters that have special incentives for scoring a kill have always made me reluctant to do something like this.

I always liked the idea of a merciful paladin or warrior. Even some evil characters could have reasons not to kill people.

Maybe a one or two tick timer that doesn't allow the person who survived to attack or be attacked. That way they could get the heck out of Dodge.

Not sure what powergamey faults the idea might have though.

And there's a flip side. People have incentives not to kill as well.

Think you might be focusing on PK and missing some RP opportunity here.

I might be missing something but I can't see a down side to this.

Just make people who are stunned buy another person not count to axe count or phylacs.

What's more give edgepoints as a regular kill for people who don't kill but leave an unconcious character. After all they would (presumably) not get any gear unless a thief or possibly an orc.

So when you play characters that have incentives to kill it is up to you to toggle it. Sheesh it should not be that much of a problem unless you are a newb in which case you are fodder anyway. Have the default toggle set to on. Nofollow, autoloot, etc are all toggled so why not this?

As a function of RP like some mentioned imagine being an AP standing over someone near death and mocking them, simply a blast without having to multi-kill that damn loser who is giving you NO charges anyway.

Cheers,
Arzzra.

AP gets group of 5 together, everyone toggles no kill except ap. Guaranteed charges.

Couple ideas:

1. "No kill" only works when everyone aiming at a target has "no kill" active. This wouldn't go far enough, since the AP's entire party (including himself) could turn it off.

2. "No kill" doesn't work when multiple people are aiming at a target, regardless of the attackers' settings.

3. "No kill" not available for evils and neutrals. Only goodies.

4. Add a flag on someone who is "spared" via nokill so that if he dies to an AP in the next 1-2 hours, the AP gets no charges.

Seems like preventing abuse would take more work than this is worth. Although I suppose part of my believing that is because I think it's a stupid idea in the first place.

I was assuming guy wouldn't be stunned, but would just be taken down to 1hp and left standing there. So he could, for instance, word himself as soon as combat stopped.

In essence, the best way to practice skills.

>AP gets group of 5 together, everyone toggles no kill except
>ap. Guaranteed charges.

Basically make it so that an AP does not get charges unless he does the majority of damage instead of the last shot. You have this stat already implemented because I have seen it in the statistics for PK in PBFs. ex player X did 45% player Y did 39% and so my AP did %16 not enough for my weapon to even sense the target's soul never mind consume it.

Really an AP should not get cheap kills for charges ever so make it so that if they do the majority of damage they get the chance at charges. Now the toggle is truly meaningless for all the negative situations mentioned because an AP will get charges as long as they did the majority of damage not if they somehow seal a cheap kill.

Really this already is in play because if a target escapes but is plagued/poisoned/bleeding from the AP and dies because of it they get charges.

Now if you have a group helping the AP it REALLY makes him angry. And sure I can be the king #### of Empire as an AP but damn I really want my minions to stay the hell out of my battles.

Cheers,
UA.

EDIT: really this helps to prevent ####wads from stealing AP kills. Now Rager X can not sneak in and whap the AP's target dead and prevent charges.

If APs had to start doing the majority of damage to get charges, I think there'd be less charges being gained by APs overall.

That would be such an awesome change. I don't even care about the mercy thing.

Will never happen though--despite the near limitless power at an APs disposal.

Getting your first charges is hard. Keeping them is even harder. Very very few A-P players manage to get up that hill, because it's really steep, and pretty damn tall. Granted, once you get to the top, things get a hell of a lot easier.

>Getting your first charges is hard. Keeping them is even
>harder. Very very few A-P players manage to get up that hill,
>because it's really steep, and pretty damn tall. Granted, once
>you get to the top, things get a hell of a lot easier.

Actually would not this type of change make it easier? Not the mercy idea but the idea that the AP's charge gain depends entirely on how much damage they did to someone ere they die. If it was set to that instead of having to get the killing blow it would make more RP sense, the weapon getting to taste the victim's soul, and be more interesting. It would be cool if the AP's target suddenly knew that they were in jeopardy ... Talena's dark axe has tasted your mind and is locked onto your soul. Now you know if you die shortly you are going to feed the axe.

I like this idea a lot because with the low player base it seems to be harder to get charges. I have always wanted to try a Felar anti-paladin but the pain involved has always deterred me.

Cheers.

We're talking about a toggle (call it "Mercy") that when on, causes you to you disengage combat when your victim is stunned. But when it's off, combat would resume as usual, and you'd seal your kill.

Wouldn't A-Ps and the other characters you're referring to just... not use it, if they wanted that kill? I don't see how this impacts those guys in any way.

Splntrd

Wouldn't A-Ps and the other characters you're referring to just... not use it, if they wanted that kill? I don't see how this impacts those guys in any way.

It's if someone else knocks the victim out, then leaves the person helpless for his buddy the AP.

You'd need a large number of safeguards to prevent a large number of abuses, for a goal that I don't think is all that exciting.

I'd also be afraid it would devolve into the current state regarding gear, where if someone solos an enemy and takes one or two pieces of good gear to use for themselves, it's often met by 10 minutes of complaining.

"What? You didn't spare me? (Insert 10 minutes of complaining.)"

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

>Wouldn't A-Ps and the other characters you're referring to
>just... not use it, if they wanted that kill? I don't see how
>this impacts those guys in any way.
>
>It's if someone else knocks the victim out, then leaves the
>person helpless for his buddy the AP.

I dunno, I actually find that scenario fairly interesting, IC.

>You'd need a large number of safeguards to prevent a large
>number of abuses, for a goal that I don't think is all that
>exciting.

Is the above scenario what you'd consider an abuse of this mechanic? If it happens IC, it just sounds like one of the many interesting roleplay opportunities it provides. Even if it's arranged OOCly, it doesn't seem like they're abusing the mechanic so much as... perma'ing. Which people are going to do anyway, and is already illegal. Isn't pretty much ANYTHING and ANY kill they make while perma'ing pretty much an abuse? What's special about this one?

>I'd also be afraid it would devolve into the current state
>regarding gear, where if someone solos an enemy and takes one
>or two pieces of good gear to use for themselves, it's often
>met by 10 minutes of complaining.
>
>"What? You didn't spare me? (Insert 10 minutes of
>complaining.)"

Personally, I think most people would still prefer to seal the kill than spare it, especially if sparing DOESN'T give edge points or count towards PKwins (like Pro suggested) and killing does. I don't think sparing will ever get to be so common (except possibly immediately after its release) that people will actually come to expect it, like they expect to not to be full-looted.

In my opinion, the only reward for sparing should be the possible eventual Imm recognition for sticking to your Roleplay guns.

As a slight tangent, I guess I haven't really noticed this complaining lately. I've been fooling around with low- to mid-level PK for the last month or two and never once received (or given) a complaint from looting. Maybe it's just my perspective (being a guy who prefers casual mid-level play) but I feel like the MUD's sportsmanship level has been on a gradual upswing for awhile now. Does this sentiment not jive with your experience/perspective?

>valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Splntrd

Would it be considered abuse if it was in...no. That's why it won't go in. I'd love to be the Emperor Anti-Paladin of Empire if it did exist though. WE could be gankalicious all we wanted and I could guarantee to get the kill every time for the biggest axe you've ever seen.

You say it's an interesting roleplay opportunity...I say it's ripe for abuse to powergame the A-P class.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

Fair point.

Although, Isildur mentioned a couple restrictions above that would help keep something like this from happening. It's definitely doable to have both this interesting roleplay mechanic AND restrictions that keep it from being abused like that.

Splntrd

The last blow thrown wasn't immediatly fatal.

Maladicts could kill as could hard hits

How about if the number of charges is based on damage percentage?
As I understand it, currently the PBF system already keep track of the damage done by the various combatants.

So if a AP solo-kill (100%), he gets all the charges.
On the other hand, if he get his buddies to stun the victims, he only very small or no charges, since the killing blow is a very small percentage.

Regards

Ehh, how about we just not change 1200 things just to make a mercy toggle?

Bryan

Regardless of the mercy toggle, isn't AP charges gained based on damage dealt fairer compare to the current system?

Of course, fair may or may not mean more fun (it's a game).
But in my opinion, this change is worth considering for the fairness factor alone.

And to add, I had never played a AP before, so my opinion may be totally baseless.

Regards,
Void

I do like the idea, and have seen it before in other muds (insert sojourn, basternae, etc). One of the caveats in those muds is that paladin's can't set themselves to be vicious (kill with no mercy).

So what if the paladin class (or possibly any goodie alignment) could have this sort of toggle. It would be much more IC to view them as the only ones who would actually be merciful. And unless I'm mistaken, it would be blatantly obvious if said alignments were abusing it for the sake of an A-P.

Then it could be a reward for an evil sort if they display good RP for torture, then perhaps they could be awarded the ability to toggle that sort of thing. Again, probably far too much work for a simple RP tool, but the above would be my two cents.

Once I was attacked by a paladin during an interview for the village and I was taken to zero at the end of a tick, and before he hit me again I was back up on my feet and running for the hills.

Better to be lucky than to prep a lot.