Is this true or misinformation?

Chilling Embrace adds its +8 dam through aura/barriors/shield?

Nope. It's just exactly what you see on score.

Do you think 8 dam has roughly the same value as 200 hp?

It was always much easier for me to get 8 dam worth of gear than 200 hp worth of gear in the same slots.

These are kinda apples and oranges, I know. Extra HP usually doesn't improve your chances much when you have 1200 or more already. But extra damroll is never irrelevant, even if you have 100+ dam.

It's just that 8 dam still seems too little, even considering the above.

I have to think that the two legacies are both pretty fair or I'd change them (further, in the case of Chilling), right?

I completely agree with you that it is, generally, a lot easier to gear for 8 more dam than 200 more hp -- but that's not the only thing we weighed in balancing those legacies as we did.

For the sake of getting an interesting discussion going, I'd be interested to hear what else you (or anyone) thinks should be weighed in. How much do any/each of these things make Chilling seem more or less fair?

Having high dam leads to shorter fights and thus less need for hp. Thus if your dam is already high, you are better off taking chilling than soul.

But it only applies if you are able to make use of your damroll immediately (i.e. be able to hit often through defenses without taking rounds to maledict them while they eat your face off). Flurry and riposte come to mind.

>Having high dam leads to shorter fights and thus less need
>for hp. Thus if your dam is already high, you are better off
>taking chilling than soul.

I don't think that is necessarily true. I would think the advantage would always (or almost always) be to the stat that was relatively weak.

For example -
If a character normally has 40 dam roll, then +8 dam is a 20% improvement, while for a character with a 100 dam roll chilling is an 8% increase.

Alternatively, you could see how this could play out by thinking of these numbers as high damage dealer (100 per hit avg) vs low damage dealer (40 per hit avg). Prior to getting chilling the high damage character would need 10 hits to deal at least 1000 points worth of damage while the low damage character would need 25. After chilling the high damage still needs 10 hits (at 9 he only does 972) while the low damage character only needs 21 to get there, effectively gaining 4 rounds.

HP's from soul would be similar it terms of low hp character getting a bigger boast.

Actually, I'd argue that in almost every case 1vs1 damroll is better than HP except in the case where you need time to land maledictions. 200hp is nice though because it gives you some staying power - but for 1vs1 if you take the same character and give them chilling or soul on almost every build chilling will net them more kills 1vs1.

It's not about +30% hp or +20% dam roll. It's about what types of fights you get into and what the usual problem is wherein you die or don't land the kill. I find it's very rare that you die within 200 hp of someone else and even in that case, you've hit someone *so many times* that 8 damroll clearly would've paid off over that amount of time. Your goal as a warrior is almost always to nudge the fight to where you will win in melee and then lag hopefully getting the person low enough to kill them in the lag or with a parting blow.

But since soul is defensive, it's great for when you *don't* want to fight and you're just trying like hell to land a stun or something or conversely you have heavy damage reduction that makes that 200hp feel like 600hp.

I'm not trying to suggest anything about how to play or land kills.

Only that in general, a legacy like chilling or soul that is static in its benefit (At least I don't think they do more then +8 dam and + 200 hp) will likely provide more benefit if it enhances a weakness rather than a strength because of the relative impact of the bonus to the character.

You have to look at the opportunity cost of selecting it. It's always an option but for me, I typically think there are better choices.

Didn't this legacy get reduced at one point? I'll admit I don't fully understand how the damage system calculated, except that it is fairly complex when you consider all the factors in it(weapon ave, dam redux, vulns etc...). Would you be willing to sell this legacy a little bit by talking a bit of numbers on what a difference 8 dam roll can make?

On a little side note, years ago when I started playing again, my first char back took this legacy and the warcry legacy. You made kind of a funny comment poking fun at me in the imm comments. Something about I need 50ccs of damage, stat!

>You have to look at the opportunity cost of selecting it.
>It's always an option but for me, I typically think there are
>better choices.
>
>Didn't this legacy get reduced at one point? I'll admit I
>don't fully understand how the damage system calculated,
>except that it is fairly complex when you consider all the
>factors in it(weapon ave, dam redux, vulns etc...). Would you
>be willing to sell this legacy a little bit by talking a bit
>of numbers on what a difference 8 dam roll can make?

Yes, this legacy did get reduced but it wasn't much, if I recall. In my experience, I like to group damage nouns into groups of three, like DISMEMBERS, MASSACRES, MANGLES.. etc. When I took this legacy then, without changing any weapons, or any other condition, then I'd typically go up to MANGLES, DEMOLISH, DEVASTATES. Which can make a pretty fair difference in PK, or PVE. These damage nouns would be the average, what I'd hit most often. Of course, I'd still hit above and below them too.

>
>On a little side note, years ago when I started playing again,
>my first char back took this legacy and the warcry legacy. You
>made kind of a funny comment poking fun at me in the imm
>comments. Something about I need 50ccs of damage, stat!

I believe this legacy used to be 10 damroll, if you add in Berserk for 10 or 15, or whatever it is, then cry which I believe used to be 25, and if you are a rager with a poncho, another 11 or 9 or whatever it used to be, possibly add in thirst also, for another 10 or 15, then a couple of high damroll weapons, then you're rocking some pretty high burst damage. 64 at the minimum without weapons or racial str, which is anywhere from 3-9 damroll. Some dwarf forged weapons can get up to 11 dam each, that could put you at 86 with only a poncho and weapons, and of course you'd still have to add in damroll from natural str.

It was one of the most popular legacies at the time before Imms nerfed it. How popular it is now, that I do not know.

Thank you!

I guess I should never listen to hearsay about game mechanics.