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Zulghinlour | Sun 16-May-10 12:46 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
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#2332, "(Illusionary)"
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Some beer + some free time = (Illusionary)
I've put in a bunch of safeguards so you shouldn't be able to ever get an Illusionary piece of gear, and if you do IT IS A BUG. If we find you abusing a bug like this you will be punished.
See suggestion thread: http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=32472&mesg_id=32472&page=
From HELP LIMITED
As you explore the realm of Thera you will likely come across people who carry Illusionary gear. These are merely illusions of the limited gear they normally carry when they are not over the limit.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
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Entered thread hoping for illusionists....,
Larcat,
19-May-10 10:37 AM, #40
any chance it will ever be put in for containers too?,
dude,
18-May-10 06:44 PM, #34
It's much more complex,
Zulghinlour,
18-May-10 06:48 PM, #36
Random thought,
Straklaw,
19-May-10 10:37 AM, #39
RE: Random thought,
Tac,
19-May-10 05:09 PM, #41
Locate?,
Valkenar,
18-May-10 06:44 PM, #31
No (n/t),
Zulghinlour,
18-May-10 06:46 PM, #35
Idea: Mental saves protect against illusionary gear?,
Quixotic,
17-May-10 09:53 AM, #23
Love the change. Thank you!,
Asthiss,
17-May-10 08:45 AM, #22
Can you explain the point of this?,
sleepy,
16-May-10 12:58 PM, #8
Go read the original thread (n/t),
Zulghinlour,
16-May-10 12:59 PM, #9
RE: (Illusionary),
_Magus_,
16-May-10 11:37 AM, #4
RE: (Illusionary),
Zulghinlour,
16-May-10 11:39 AM, #5
Just a thought,
trewyn,
16-May-10 12:58 PM, #6
I did contemplate that, and decided against it (n/t),
Zulghinlour,
16-May-10 01:00 PM, #10
Hm...some more questions for clarification.,
sleepy,
16-May-10 03:09 PM, #11
Yes and not so easy to answer...,
Amberion,
16-May-10 05:18 PM, #12
What made you decide against it?,
trewyn,
16-May-10 08:35 PM, #15
RE: What made you decide against it?,
Zulghinlour,
16-May-10 08:59 PM, #19
I have to ask...,
Minyar,
17-May-10 09:12 PM, #24
RE: I have to ask...,
Zulghinlour,
17-May-10 09:15 PM, #25
Yeah....,
trewyn,
17-May-10 09:46 PM, #26
RE: I have to ask...,
_Magus_,
18-May-10 11:24 AM, #27
RE: I have to ask...,
Hutto,
18-May-10 06:44 PM, #29
RE: I have to respond...,
thendrell,
18-May-10 06:44 PM, #32
Good change, I like it.,
Dallevian,
18-May-10 06:44 PM, #28
RE: I have to ask...,
laxman,
18-May-10 06:44 PM, #33
Say goodbye to ranking in the ruins of the deep anymore...,
Gaplemo,
16-May-10 05:18 PM, #13
RE: Say goodbye to ranking in the ruins of the deep any...,
Adekar,
16-May-10 08:35 PM, #14
Meh.,
sleepy,
16-May-10 08:35 PM, #16
RE: Say goodbye to ranking in the ruins of the deep any...,
Daevryn,
16-May-10 07:50 PM, #17
Meh...,
Zulghinlour,
16-May-10 08:48 PM, #18
RE: Meh...,
ORB,
17-May-10 08:45 AM, #20
Even without, im all for the illusionary change, the go...,
Gaplemo,
17-May-10 08:45 AM, #21
Not being disarmable on specc'd mobs,
Zen,
18-May-10 06:44 PM, #30
This is my only real discontent. ~,
_Magus_,
18-May-10 08:29 PM, #37
Hello. Kitty. Island. Adventure.,
Valguarnera,
18-May-10 08:36 PM, #38
Maybe I'm missing something.,
Minyar,
19-May-10 05:09 PM, #42
This is pretty great! :) n/t,
Daning,
16-May-10 11:37 AM, #3
Does this just go for items that are carried on mobs?,
Java,
16-May-10 02:30 AM, #1
Mobs (n/t),
Zulghinlour,
16-May-10 02:30 AM, #2
RE: Mobs (n/t),
lasentia,
16-May-10 12:58 PM, #7
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Larcat | Wed 19-May-10 10:05 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
495 posts
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#2382, "Entered thread hoping for illusionists...."
In response to Reply #0
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Left happy for the newbies. "New payment options w/ Iron Realms"
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dude | Tue 18-May-10 06:07 PM |
Member since 10th Aug 2008
77 posts
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#2373, "any chance it will ever be put in for containers too?"
In response to Reply #0
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i think it is a cool change. I would really like to see it where it goes to things in chests and stuff like that. One of the hardest things about the game is getting prep knowledge. I see all kinds of empty things that I go check all the time and almost never have anything. I bet there are tons of places i have looked a few times and then given up on. i think it would give the vets and/or hoarders less of an advantage if everyone could find out that something comes from there. just curious on your thoughts about this.
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Zulghinlour | Tue 18-May-10 06:48 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
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#2375, "It's much more complex"
In response to Reply #34
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I won't say never, but it's not high on my list. I looked into it briefly and there are many more gotchas I'd have to figure out a good way to address. So long, and thanks for all the fish!
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Tac | Wed 19-May-10 12:28 PM |
Member since 15th Nov 2005
2050 posts
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#2383, "RE: Random thought"
In response to Reply #39
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>This probably isn't anywhere near as easy as it seems at >first glance, but would it be possible to create it so that if >an item loads with "illusionary", it also loads without a >"take" flag? Seems like it wouldn't break the mob half, and >might prevent me from being able to grab stuff.
I had a similar thought, but instead of that, making it so there is a check in get, steal, give, and plant (request is already handled and I can't think of any other commands that transfer objects from one place {NPC, ground, etc) to another) that checks for illusionary flags and will cause the item to crumble (dispel the illusion) if it has one. If you made sure that PC's were the only ones who cause a crumble, a mob can get disarmed and re-get it's weapon, but a PC tries to get it, and it crumbles. An NPC can loot illusionary items, but the PC can never get them since that would dispel the illusion. Seems like it would be feasible from my limited knowledge of the coding involved.
Tac
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Valkenar | Tue 18-May-10 03:05 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
1203 posts
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#2370, "Locate?"
In response to Reply #0
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Can you locate illusory items?
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Zulghinlour | Tue 18-May-10 06:46 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
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#2374, "No (n/t)"
In response to Reply #31
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n/t So long, and thanks for all the fish!
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Quixotic | Mon 17-May-10 09:15 AM |
Member since 09th Feb 2006
830 posts
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#2359, "Idea: Mental saves protect against illusionary gear?"
In response to Reply #0
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Just like phantasmal killer, the illusionary weapon would poof after it whooped on you for a while, only to respawn later with the mob.
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Asthiss | Mon 17-May-10 01:53 AM |
Member since 26th Oct 2004
191 posts
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#2358, "Love the change. Thank you!"
In response to Reply #0
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Even though it got me killed because I got overjoyed at seeing all the good gear inn and didn't notice the new flag... =(
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sleepy | Sun 16-May-10 12:46 PM |
Member since 24th Jul 2007
223 posts
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#2340, "Can you explain the point of this?"
In response to Reply #0
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Not hating on it, just curious.
And from what I get from magus' post, you cannot disarm these weapons?
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Zulghinlour | Sun 16-May-10 12:59 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
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#2341, "Go read the original thread (n/t)"
In response to Reply #8
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n/t So long, and thanks for all the fish!
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Zulghinlour | Sun 16-May-10 11:39 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
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#2337, "RE: (Illusionary)"
In response to Reply #4
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>So what about mobs that have (illusionary) weapons that use >spec skills? Like paladins, warriors, thieves, etc. You can't >disarm these illusionary weapons, therefore, you just get beat >on even worse. > >Just seems like an unintentional problem.
Or an intentional one. The downside to knowing where everything comes from. So long, and thanks for all the fish!
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trewyn | Sun 16-May-10 12:22 PM |
Member since 04th Jan 2005
269 posts
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#2338, "Just a thought"
In response to Reply #5
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I'm sure you guys threw this around... but what about making it disappear when you pick it up? Then you could disarm it and the mob could get it back, but if you picked it up it would vanish and allow you to keep that tactic viable.
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Zulghinlour | Sun 16-May-10 01:00 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
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#2342, "I did contemplate that, and decided against it (n/t)"
In response to Reply #6
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n/t So long, and thanks for all the fish!
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sleepy | Sun 16-May-10 02:25 PM |
Member since 24th Jul 2007
223 posts
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#2343, "Hm...some more questions for clarification."
In response to Reply #10
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So is there now a flag that says (Illusionary) next to it?
And only illusionary items are nodisarm, while the real ones are disarm-able?
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Amberion | Sun 16-May-10 03:39 PM |
Member since 06th Jun 2007
945 posts
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#2344, "Yes and not so easy to answer..."
In response to Reply #11
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... Yes, limited items that are maxed out have an Illusionary flag next to them.
Illusionary items are nodisarm yes. BUT the real thing might not be. It depends on the area builder... Just as before. Always shoot first and then call whatever you hit the target.
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trewyn | Sun 16-May-10 06:22 PM |
Member since 04th Jan 2005
269 posts
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#2349, "What made you decide against it?"
In response to Reply #10
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Zulghinlour | Sun 16-May-10 08:51 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
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#2354, "RE: What made you decide against it?"
In response to Reply #15
Edited on Sun 16-May-10 08:59 PM
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I thought it was a nice balance to the fact that you are guaranteed to know what items a mob has. It is an illusion to you, but it can still whup you (just like the phantasmal killer).
Edited to add...another reason is that it makes dealing with illusionary gear much simpler (someone mentioned when "you" grab it that it disappears, which is possible, but much more complex when you're trying to find out who is a valid "you", and who would cause it to disappear). So long, and thanks for all the fish!
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Minyar | Mon 17-May-10 03:52 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
504 posts
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#2361, "I have to ask..."
In response to Reply #19
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Why would making something that is an illusion harm you the same as if it were real make any sense in a world striving for realism. We want people to RP well and act like the game is real, and then we put in equipment that can harm you but isnt? That just seems very odd to me. Nothing gainst you Z, but I don't agree with your thinking on this one and I'm willing to voice that opinion.
It is cool to know what gear comes from where, but I don't think the drawbacks outweigh the positives in this one. IMHO.
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Zulghinlour | Mon 17-May-10 09:15 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
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#2362, "RE: I have to ask..."
In response to Reply #24
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>Why would making something that is an illusion harm you the >same as if it were real make any sense in a world striving for >realism.
I'll point you to the entire bard class...
>We want people to RP well and act like the game is >real, and then we put in equipment that can harm you but isnt? > That just seems very odd to me.
And yet we have illusions that already can destroy you that really only exist in your head (Mmmm...phantasmal killers)
>Nothing gainst you Z, but I >don't agree with your thinking on this one and I'm willing to >voice that opinion.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, thanks for sharing yours.
>It is cool to know what gear comes from where, but I don't >think the drawbacks outweigh the positives in this one. IMHO.
I think you might be in the minority on this one. This is a change that is not really catering to the veterans of the game, but making things a bit easier for those just joining the game. So long, and thanks for all the fish!
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trewyn | Mon 17-May-10 09:35 PM |
Member since 04th Jan 2005
269 posts
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#2363, "Yeah...."
In response to Reply #25
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My complaint is that it isn't balanced in my opinion since I know where virtually all EQ already comes from. It's not really a "balance" to me (the person). It's more like a penalty. But you pretty much already said this.
On the plus side, it's fun to me because I like the challenge of facing the mob the way they were designed and ranking in some areas "IS" more fun cause now you can't do it with any pack of idiots and you actually have to have some folks that know some mojo to rank in some places. In the end, I think it's a good change and would like to see some of the more "legendary" items (valued via legendary awareness) that were on the ground or in containers pop up.
What you need to do now is put it in the Academy (since it's intended for the new guys) so they aren't freaked out by it in the "real game".
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Hutto | Tue 18-May-10 11:55 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
234 posts
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#2367, "RE: I have to ask..."
In response to Reply #27
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But then you're opening a huge can of balance worms. "Oh, I can smoke all these BADASSMOBS easily because I have my resist mental on and their weapons are Illusionary."
Let's face it, mobs aren't the same as PCs. That's why you can't bash and trip to stop them from casting, and that's why resist mental doesn't help versus Illusionary. For now, I don't see a problem with it at all.
However, I'll admit, I wish there were less discrepancies between fighting NPCs and PCs. It would be nice if fighting mobs prepared people better for fighting PCs. Like bash protection, flying, dispel, etc. Would be hard to balance it so adventuring and exploring is still fun, but I think it could be worth it.
Hutto, the Sleepy Nitpicker
'Sorry, I'm not 72323slhlst. Or however you say Elite' -Vynmylak
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thendrell | Tue 18-May-10 04:56 PM |
Member since 08th May 2009
134 posts
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#2371, "RE: I have to respond..."
In response to Reply #27
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I have no idea how this works code-wise, and maybe the illusionary flag could have that part tied in (that resist mental works), but would making this mental resist affected necessitate making illusionary weapons mental damage to begin with? Which would utterly F*** over cloud giants? Your argument mandates that it should, and that would suck. Or do you want a way to always resist a mob's illusionary weapon damage now by just getting resist mental, and so make them easier, which defeats some of the positives vets said they like, that mobs are tougher and require maybe a touch more thought at times?
The change works, it's good for a lot of players. Nitpicky is basing an argument on the flag being called illusionary. It's a word. He could have picked anything else and would you still have this problem with it? I'd say probably not. Call them ethereal (soul- bound maybe), the creature's will enables it's possessions to exist when it can not have what it should, and without the creature being alive it fades away. There. It's real and not mental. Plus it's CF, a fantasy realm. Arguing for complete realism is a little silly.
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Dallevian | Tue 18-May-10 11:35 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
1620 posts
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#2366, "Good change, I like it."
In response to Reply #25
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I'm pro-change completely.
If you allowed me to make a suggestion, I'd like to see legendary awareness allow a character to see through the illusion so the mob then no longer wields or wears whatever it has that is illusionary.
Very few chars get this before hero so it wouldn't impact the ease of ranking.
But if it was a coding nightmare, man, please forget about it and have fun doing whatever it is you want to do!
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laxman | Tue 18-May-10 05:14 PM |
Member since 18th Aug 2003
1867 posts
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#2372, "RE: I have to ask..."
In response to Reply #25
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and people who don't play in the pre planned explore permas. It is somewhat silly that there are parts of hell left untouched because everyone is still using the playbook of the immortal only group that went through way back in the day.
That said unless they toned down some of the mobs it would not be realistic to see a group of players willing to spend the time to get deep into hell and then die trying new things and repeat until they figure out new things, at least not without being a pre planned and very comitted perma.
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sleepy | Sun 16-May-10 07:49 PM |
Member since 24th Jul 2007
223 posts
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#2350, "Meh."
In response to Reply #13
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I think that Ruins of the Deep was way TOO easy to rank in. Though it always was such a good feeling when they no longer had their swords, once you stopped ranking and another group came in, it was such easy pickings for them that the area became like the crypts of arkham.
Basically, after the first group who came in and did all the hard work, the area became too easy to rank in.
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Daevryn | Sun 16-May-10 07:50 PM |
Member since 13th Feb 2007
11117 posts
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#2351, "RE: Say goodbye to ranking in the ruins of the deep any..."
In response to Reply #13
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On the other hand, XP values for spec mobs that will always have weapons now probably will go up. (Although they haven't yet.)
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Zulghinlour | Sun 16-May-10 08:48 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
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#2353, "Meh..."
In response to Reply #17
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>On the other hand, XP values for spec mobs that will always >have weapons now probably will go up. (Although they haven't >yet.)
As long as that value is balanced by the fact that weapons that are rarely, if ever, at max that can still be sac'd so you can still have the "easy road". So long, and thanks for all the fish!
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ORB | Mon 17-May-10 12:23 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
993 posts
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#2356, "RE: Meh..."
In response to Reply #18
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Why not just have disarmed illusionary weapons vanish, and respawn in 5 minutes on the Mob? That which does not kill us, makes us stronger.
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Gaplemo | Mon 17-May-10 12:59 AM |
Member since 06th May 2010
618 posts
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#2357, "Even without, im all for the illusionary change, the go..."
In response to Reply #17
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Zen | Tue 18-May-10 12:53 PM |
Member since 26th Sep 2007
61 posts
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#2369, "Not being disarmable on specc'd mobs"
In response to Reply #5
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I ran into this with a hero recently and died to a relatively average mob, and i don't think it's a reasonable tradeoff by any means. It complicates a great many things, ie, ranking, or even killing mobs for other gear when they always have their weapon, can't be disarmed, and pwn your face with eyejabs/lashes/entwines/etc etc etc.
Can we PLEASE make it so they can be disarmed, they just dissapear when they hit the ground?
Thank you!
Zen
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_Magus_ | Tue 18-May-10 08:21 PM |
Member since 05th Dec 2006
430 posts
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#2377, "This is my only real discontent. ~"
In response to Reply #30
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Minyar | Wed 19-May-10 03:48 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
504 posts
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#2384, "Maybe I'm missing something."
In response to Reply #38
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Why would being able to disarm this be a problem? In the game that is what we as players do to rank on lets say, the elven archers in the past. We disarm the real limited item and take it so they can't. I think illusionary should be able to be disarmed and then picked up and have it poof. Just hitting the ground shouldn't.
I understand what you are saying about the PVE and wether I agree or not a lot of folks are saying "Hey, at least do this" and it will really make this more like how it is. Why is this meeting so much flack? If the answer is that we can't do it, or haven't figured it out to do it that way...fine...say that, but some of us are also thinking about the newbies in the game who will get owned worse than the veterans because some of us will know to just avoid it.
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Daning | Sun 16-May-10 03:11 AM |
Member since 12th Dec 2003
19 posts
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#2335, "This is pretty great! :) n/t"
In response to Reply #0
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Zulghinlour | Sun 16-May-10 02:30 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
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#2334, "Mobs (n/t)"
In response to Reply #1
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n/t So long, and thanks for all the fish!
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lasentia | Sun 16-May-10 12:39 PM |
Member since 27th Apr 2010
987 posts
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#2339, "RE: Mobs (n/t)"
In response to Reply #2
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Love the change, great to see it in place Zulgh. And anything that makes mobs even harder I'm all in favor of.
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