Some beer + some free time = (Illusionary)

I've put in a bunch of safeguards so you shouldn't be able to ever get an Illusionary piece of gear, and if you do IT IS A BUG. If we find you abusing a bug like this you will be punished.



See suggestion thread:
http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=32472&mesg_id=32472&page=

From HELP LIMITED

As you explore the realm of Thera you will likely come across people who carry
Illusionary gear. These are merely illusions of the limited gear they
normally carry when they are not over the limit.

Left happy for the newbies.

i think it is a cool change. I would really like to see it where it goes to things in chests and stuff like that. One of the hardest things about the game is getting prep knowledge. I see all kinds of empty things that I go check all the time and almost never have anything. I bet there are tons of places i have looked a few times and then given up on. i think it would give the vets and/or hoarders less of an advantage if everyone could find out that something comes from there. just curious on your thoughts about this.

I won't say never, but it's not high on my list. I looked into it briefly and there are many more gotchas I'd have to figure out a good way to address.

This probably isn't anywhere near as easy as it seems at first glance, but would it be possible to create it so that if an item loads with "illusionary", it also loads without a "take" flag? Seems like it wouldn't break the mob half, and might prevent me from being able to grab stuff.

>This probably isn't anywhere near as easy as it seems at
>first glance, but would it be possible to create it so that if
>an item loads with "illusionary", it also loads without a
>"take" flag? Seems like it wouldn't break the mob half, and
>might prevent me from being able to grab stuff.

I had a similar thought, but instead of that, making it so there is a check in get, steal, give, and plant (request is already handled and I can't think of any other commands that transfer objects from one place {NPC, ground, etc) to another) that checks for illusionary flags and will cause the item to crumble (dispel the illusion) if it has one. If you made sure that PC's were the only ones who cause a crumble, a mob can get disarmed and re-get it's weapon, but a PC tries to get it, and it crumbles. An NPC can loot illusionary items, but the PC can never get them since that would dispel the illusion. Seems like it would be feasible from my limited knowledge of the coding involved.

Tac

Can you locate illusory items?

n/t

Just like phantasmal killer, the illusionary weapon would poof after it whooped on you for a while, only to respawn later with the mob.

Even though it got me killed because I got overjoyed at seeing all the good gear inn and didn't notice the new flag... =(

Not hating on it, just curious.

And from what I get from magus' post, you cannot disarm these weapons?

n/t

So what about mobs that have (illusionary) weapons that use spec skills? Like paladins, warriors, thieves, etc. You can't disarm these illusionary weapons, therefore, you just get beat on even worse.

Just seems like an unintentional problem.

>So what about mobs that have (illusionary) weapons that use
>spec skills? Like paladins, warriors, thieves, etc. You can't
>disarm these illusionary weapons, therefore, you just get beat
>on even worse.
>
>Just seems like an unintentional problem.

Or an intentional one. The downside to knowing where everything comes from.

I'm sure you guys threw this around... but what about making it disappear when you pick it up? Then you could disarm it and the mob could get it back, but if you picked it up it would vanish and allow you to keep that tactic viable.

n/t

So is there now a flag that says (Illusionary) next to it?

And only illusionary items are nodisarm, while the real ones are disarm-able?

... Yes, limited items that are maxed out have an Illusionary flag next to them.

Illusionary items are nodisarm yes. BUT the real thing might not be. It depends on the area builder... Just as before.

Just curious.

I thought it was a nice balance to the fact that you are guaranteed to know what items a mob has. It is an illusion to you, but it can still whup you (just like the phantasmal killer).

Edited to add...another reason is that it makes dealing with illusionary gear much simpler (someone mentioned when "you" grab it that it disappears, which is possible, but much more complex when you're trying to find out who is a valid "you", and who would cause it to disappear).

Why would making something that is an illusion harm you the same as if it were real make any sense in a world striving for realism. We want people to RP well and act like the game is real, and then we put in equipment that can harm you but isnt? That just seems very odd to me. Nothing gainst you Z, but I don't agree with your thinking on this one and I'm willing to voice that opinion.

It is cool to know what gear comes from where, but I don't think the drawbacks outweigh the positives in this one. IMHO.

>Why would making something that is an illusion harm you the
>same as if it were real make any sense in a world striving for
>realism.

I'll point you to the entire bard class...

>We want people to RP well and act like the game is
>real, and then we put in equipment that can harm you but isnt?
> That just seems very odd to me.

And yet we have illusions that already can destroy you that really only exist in your head (Mmmm...phantasmal killers)

>Nothing gainst you Z, but I
>don't agree with your thinking on this one and I'm willing to
>voice that opinion.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, thanks for sharing yours.

>It is cool to know what gear comes from where, but I don't
>think the drawbacks outweigh the positives in this one. IMHO.

I think you might be in the minority on this one. This is a change that is not really catering to the veterans of the game, but making things a bit easier for those just joining the game.

My complaint is that it isn't balanced in my opinion since I know where virtually all EQ already comes from. It's not really a "balance" to me (the person). It's more like a penalty. But you pretty much already said this.

On the plus side, it's fun to me because I like the challenge of facing the mob the way they were designed and ranking in some areas "IS" more fun cause now you can't do it with any pack of idiots and you actually have to have some folks that know some mojo to rank in some places. In the end, I think it's a good change and would like to see some of the more "legendary" items (valued via legendary awareness) that were on the ground or in containers pop up.

What you need to do now is put it in the Academy (since it's intended for the new guys) so they aren't freaked out by it in the "real game".

I won't go so far to say I disagree completely against this change. In some ways, it can be helpful. Not so much to me, since I already know where a good number of things come from to begin with. But helpful for newer players.

If these things are illusionary, then I agree with the above post that says mental saves should help against these items. Specifically, I feel that resist mental should protect against illusionary weapons the same way it helps protect against other mental assaults. I mean, if you want to get nitpicky, this idea is entirely inline with your counterpoint to Minyar's post.

But then you're opening a huge can of balance worms. "Oh, I can smoke all these BADASSMOBS easily because I have my resist mental on and their weapons are Illusionary."

Let's face it, mobs aren't the same as PCs. That's why you can't bash and trip to stop them from casting, and that's why resist mental doesn't help versus Illusionary. For now, I don't see a problem with it at all.

However, I'll admit, I wish there were less discrepancies between fighting NPCs and PCs. It would be nice if fighting mobs prepared people better for fighting PCs. Like bash protection, flying, dispel, etc. Would be hard to balance it so adventuring and exploring is still fun, but I think it could be worth it.


Hutto, the Sleepy Nitpicker


'Sorry, I'm not 72323slhlst. Or however you say Elite'
-Vynmylak

I have no idea how this works code-wise, and maybe the illusionary flag could have that part tied in (that resist mental works), but would making this mental resist affected necessitate making illusionary weapons mental damage to begin with? Which would utterly F*** over cloud giants? Your argument mandates that it should, and that would suck. Or do you want a way to always resist a mob's illusionary weapon damage now by just getting resist mental, and so make them easier, which defeats some of the positives vets said they like, that mobs are tougher and require maybe a touch more thought at times?

The change works, it's good for a lot of players. Nitpicky is basing an argument on the flag being called illusionary. It's a word. He could have picked anything else and would you still have this problem with it? I'd say probably not. Call them ethereal (soul- bound maybe), the creature's will enables it's possessions to exist when it can not have what it should, and without the creature being alive it fades away. There. It's real and not mental. Plus it's CF, a fantasy realm. Arguing for complete realism is a little silly.

I'm pro-change completely.

If you allowed me to make a suggestion, I'd like to see legendary awareness allow a character to see through the illusion so the mob then no longer wields or wears whatever it has that is illusionary.

Very few chars get this before hero so it wouldn't impact the ease of ranking.

But if it was a coding nightmare, man, please forget about it and have fun doing whatever it is you want to do!

and people who don't play in the pre planned explore permas. It is somewhat silly that there are parts of hell left untouched because everyone is still using the playbook of the immortal only group that went through way back in the day.

That said unless they toned down some of the mobs it would not be realistic to see a group of players willing to spend the time to get deep into hell and then die trying new things and repeat until they figure out new things, at least not without being a pre planned and very comitted perma.

I think the change as a whole is AWESOME, for areas like hell and areas explore it will really drive people to wander back and check for things again.

On the other hand, its going to totally KILL the viability of some of the best ranking areas in the game, ruins of the deep being one of them. :(

That's what you guys said when mobs started picking up and rewielding disarmed weapons :P

I agree that it certainly will change things though. Might be a bit too early to say it's going to totally kill areas.

I think that Ruins of the Deep was way TOO easy to rank in. Though it always was such a good feeling when they no longer had their swords, once you stopped ranking and another group came in, it was such easy pickings for them that the area became like the crypts of arkham.

Basically, after the first group who came in and did all the hard work, the area became too easy to rank in.

On the other hand, XP values for spec mobs that will always have weapons now probably will go up. (Although they haven't yet.)

>On the other hand, XP values for spec mobs that will always
>have weapons now probably will go up. (Although they haven't
>yet.)

As long as that value is balanced by the fact that weapons that are rarely, if ever, at max that can still be sac'd so you can still have the "easy road".

Why not just have disarmed illusionary weapons vanish, and respawn in 5 minutes on the Mob?

nt

I ran into this with a hero recently and died to a relatively average mob, and i don't think it's a reasonable tradeoff by any means. It complicates a great many things, ie, ranking, or even killing mobs for other gear when they always have their weapon, can't be disarmed, and pwn your face with eyejabs/lashes/entwines/etc etc etc.

Can we PLEASE make it so they can be disarmed, they just dissapear when they hit the ground?


Thank you!

Zen

Real inconvenience.

There's something to be said for having NPC encounters consistently at the difficulty envisioned by the area author, and for high-end ranking to be consistently challenging. We've made a lot of changes that have made the player vs. environment aspect of the game much easier-- Edges stand out, but examples abound.

Also, I do like that this change disproportionately benefits newer/intermediate players at the expense of veterans. Being a veteran on a game of our complexity already comes with massive advantages, and narrowing that gap is appealing.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Why would being able to disarm this be a problem? In the game that is what we as players do to rank on lets say, the elven archers in the past. We disarm the real limited item and take it so they can't. I think illusionary should be able to be disarmed and then picked up and have it poof. Just hitting the ground shouldn't.

I understand what you are saying about the PVE and wether I agree or not a lot of folks are saying "Hey, at least do this" and it will really make this more like how it is. Why is this meeting so much flack? If the answer is that we can't do it, or haven't figured it out to do it that way...fine...say that, but some of us are also thinking about the newbies in the game who will get owned worse than the veterans because some of us will know to just avoid it.

ntnt

Or will you see illusionary items in chests/etc too?

n/t

Love the change, great to see it in place Zulgh. And anything that makes mobs even harder I'm all in favor of.