Subject: "RE: First of all I strayed when I agreed with your genocide issue. I don’t think Maran would be down with that." This topic is locked.
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TsunamiSat 09-Jun-12 08:38 PM
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#45735, "RE: First of all I strayed when I agreed with your genocide issue. I don’t think Maran would be down with that."


          

First, this post is meant to be insult free. However if one slips in it is purely by accident. You are misreading or I miswrote.


>Not if the gene pool you are wiping out are Aliens that lay
>eggs in your stomach to propagate. The orcs, goblins, and
>Ogres are around so we can have guilt free racism and
>zealotry, which is at the heart of the game. The goblinoids
>have a Red Aura because it is in their very nature to take the
>most selfish and self serving road possible. Want what your
>brother has? Kill him. Want what your cousin has? Rape her..
>wait that’s Arkansas.. Anyway that’s that. They are born
>evil.

So genocide is ok because of their alignment. We have established now that the Carrion Fields alignment does not directly correlate to real world morality. Since in real life, it doesn't matter if it is aliens, fish, or black people. Genocide is generally seen as wrong and/or evil. This of course can depend on the person, as morality is subjective. Morality is not subjective in CF. We have set definitions and only nine different choices.

>
>Conversely I see the Red Aura-ed sinners such as the hookers
>in Voralian as trapped into an evil life and thus tainted by
>it, but slaughtering them for personal renown would be cruel
>and wicked in its own right.

Ah, see now we are deviating from the standard "evil aura dies." This is where our RP has an affect on how we interact with the world. It creates the individual stories of CF. This is good, but not everyone agrees on it.

>
>I think a Paladin raiding the Goblin village and killing pan
>wielding goblin mothers is a pretty sad assed Paladin by
>virtue of the example he set. Killing off their military
>class would be fine.
>

Again. Your subjective interpretation of it. I doubt Baerinika (the God, not the player) would have a problem with a paladin slaying evil babies to prevent them from becoming evil adults.

>
>Nexuns are just plain evil. You are never going to convince me
>otherwise. There is no other rational way to describe them.
>And again, No to Maran genocide.

Yet they aren't evil. Clearly only true neutrals can be Nexuns in the world of Carrion Fields. I respect that you changed your opinion on whether or not Maran should commit genocide. However, that doesn't change the murderous bent of the Maran that would never be considered "good" by your own standard of morality in the real world. It's ok though, because we have an out for that. Morality works different in Carrion Fields. Yes, it's arbitrary and may not make complete sense to everyone. That's up to the individual and likely colored by their own perception of real world morality. No way around it, thus we have a group of people to set the rules (rules which, by the way, still remain flexible based on roleplay). I'm not trying to convince you that Nexuns are not evil by real life standards of morality. By my own real world morality, Nexuns are far from evil and in fact are more "good" than the Maran. That's my real world morality coloring it much like yours does the other direction.


> A maran should consider his actions. He may have killed
>Madam Suzzie Rotten Crotch and her girls with the red auras
>and the (Herpes) flags, but is that really an epic canticle
>that represents Maran values? Or does throwing himself at the
>Orc Chief and his horde?
>

I've played both Maran and Nexus. The Nexuns have to consider their actions far more than a Maran. Their dilemmas are hundred times more complex. By Maran dogma, killing Madam Suzzie Rotten Crotch is just as important as killing those orcs. Maran don't kill to have songs written about them. That's battle ragers. Maran kill to eradicate evil in all its forms. I see it that way and everything I've read about cabal dogma seems that way. However, one can still apply their own views on it and play as they wish.


> Killing isn’t in and of its self evil. There are many good
>reasons to kill. Killing a Nexun would be one example. Killing
>a home invader another.

I thought Nexuns were evil because they commit genocide. Which is a form of killing. This argument makes me think you simply don't like the cabal. Which is fine.

>I do, but Nexun is so obviously should be an enemy of Fort,
>Spire, Empire, Outlander that it’s crazy to have to even
>argue about it.

If it was so obvious, I hope I would see it that way. You yourself said I'm an intelligent individual. Perhaps it is only obvious to you because of how the concept interacts with your own personal, real-world, moral code. Which isn't the same as how mine interacts with it. I honestly see the Nexus as far more "good" in a real world sense than I do the Maran. It's like when you kill an enemy combatant. It's an evil act by my morality, but sometimes it is for the greater good. Nexus fights for the greater good. No, I'm not a liberal hippy. More of an open-minded libertarian.


>You can act however you want. If you want to ignore that
>cruelty that Nexun perpetuates to balance out your good, then
>that’s fine. But I would think that if your life means less
>to you than the life of some innocent soul somewhere, you
>would wack that Nexun, or take your own life so someone else
>doesn’t die in your place… to a Nexun.

I don't think it should be ignored at all. Most Maran that I play would kill a neutral committing an evil act. However, my Maran would also recognize that one evil action does not make one evil. Because in Carrion Fields it doesn't.

>I’m not saying it can’t. I’m saying that eventually, if
>you want to do the right thing and kill Nexuns, you get
>canoewacked out of the cabal.

That may be so. The reason is because in Carrion Fields the Fortress, who is lead by fictional gods with a fictional set of pseudo morals deem that their mortal followers should act a certain way. I don't agree that "killing Nexuns" is the right thing to do. I also don't mind a Maran that thinks "killing Nexuns" IS the right thing to do. With the caveat that he realizes he won't be a "Maran" for long (because he isn't one). The true test of the mettle is if that player continues to play their character out and becomes a righteous Nexus hunter.

Let's not also forget that killing a Nexun won't get you booted from the cabal. Hunting a Nexun (who is neutral, whether your personal moral code agrees with that or not) should never come before hunting an evil (red aura guy).

I get that people are upset the administration just can't see the "obvious" truth that Nexus are evil (by real world standards). However, there are many, many things in Carrion Fields morality that doesn't stand up to real world morality (ie. murderous "good" Maran).

  

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HOT Locked TopicI'm starting an Occupy Nexun movement. [View all] , Alston, Thu 07-Jun-12 07:51 PM
Reply The problem, Graatch, 12-Jun-12 10:54 AM, #114
Reply RE: The problem, Daevryn, 12-Jun-12 10:56 AM, #115
     Reply The real problem is Pro and Graatch, Tac, 12-Jun-12 11:02 AM, #116
     Reply RE: The problem, Graatch, 12-Jun-12 11:03 AM, #117
          Reply RE: The problem, Daevryn, 12-Jun-12 11:05 AM, #118
               Reply RE: The problem, Graatch, 12-Jun-12 11:13 AM, #120
               Reply RE: The problem, Daevryn, 12-Jun-12 11:20 AM, #122
                    Reply RE: The problem, Graatch, 12-Jun-12 11:23 AM, #123
               Reply Maaaaaan. Are you serious? Did you just say that after ..., Alston, 12-Jun-12 11:18 AM, #121
Reply Couple points, Valkenar, 10-Jun-12 09:28 PM, #66
Reply RE: Couple points, Graatch, 10-Jun-12 10:14 PM, #67
Reply RE: Couple points, Rayihn, 11-Jun-12 06:05 AM, #68
     Reply You told my Paladin to talk to and forgive them. , Alston, 11-Jun-12 07:47 AM, #69
     Reply Case by case basis, Rayihn, 11-Jun-12 08:37 AM, #72
     Reply RE: Couple points, Graatch, 11-Jun-12 09:43 AM, #73
          Reply RE: Couple points, Rayihn, 11-Jun-12 10:40 AM, #76
          Reply RE: Couple points, Graatch, 11-Jun-12 01:38 PM, #80
               Reply RE: Couple points, lasentia, 11-Jun-12 02:13 PM, #81
               Reply They should be killed on sight., Alston, 11-Jun-12 06:34 PM, #91
               Reply RE: Couple points, Daevryn, 11-Jun-12 03:15 PM, #82
               Reply Because Nexus is Chaotic Evil. n/t, Alston, 11-Jun-12 06:28 PM, #87
                    Reply RE: Because Nexus is Chaotic Evil. n/t, Daevryn, 11-Jun-12 06:33 PM, #90
                         Reply Okay. Not to troll. But can you explain how they aren't..., Alston, 11-Jun-12 06:39 PM, #93
                              Reply Do you listen to yourself?, laxman, 11-Jun-12 08:29 PM, #96
                              Reply RE: Okay. Not to troll. But can you explain how they ar..., Daevryn, 11-Jun-12 09:10 PM, #97
                                   Reply To use the P and G point, Artificial, 11-Jun-12 09:17 PM, #98
                                   Reply Speaking of retards,,,,, Alston, 11-Jun-12 09:23 PM, #99
                                   Reply For you and laxman above., Alston, 11-Jun-12 09:39 PM, #100
                                        Reply RE: For you and laxman above., Daevryn, 11-Jun-12 09:43 PM, #101
                                        Reply Let me be helpful., Scrimbul, 11-Jun-12 10:32 PM, #102
                                        Reply RE: Let me be helpful., Daevryn, 11-Jun-12 10:40 PM, #103
                                        Reply That's just it. It should be., Alston, 11-Jun-12 10:47 PM, #104
                                             Reply Fortress can better influence neutrals towards goodly b..., DurNominator, 12-Jun-12 01:05 AM, #105
                                                  Reply You can't unrape someone, or unkill them., Alston, 12-Jun-12 07:47 AM, #108
                                                       Reply puhg said it below, you are thinking like a neutral or ..., laxman, 12-Jun-12 08:59 AM, #111
                                                            Reply How do you forgive someone for killing someone else? Yo..., Alston, 12-Jun-12 09:43 AM, #112
                                                                 Reply in cf people die and come back, its not as big a deal a..., laxman, 12-Jun-12 10:31 AM, #113
                                                                 Reply All your arguments are rooted in OOC mechanics. n/t, Alston, 12-Jun-12 11:12 AM, #119
                                        Reply Your view of "good align" seems far more similar to a n..., Puhguly, 12-Jun-12 05:17 AM, #107
                                             Reply You're opinion seems to be rooted in moral bankruptcy., Alston, 12-Jun-12 07:58 AM, #109
               Reply You are dumb, laxman, 11-Jun-12 04:23 PM, #83
                    Reply Yeah, you pretty much misunderstand what he's saying. Y..., Alston, 11-Jun-12 06:33 PM, #89
          Reply Was that with your elf invoker?, TMNS, 11-Jun-12 04:37 PM, #85
Reply I'm not missing anything. I said exactly that., Alston, 11-Jun-12 07:55 AM, #70
     Reply RE: I'm not missing anything. I said exactly that., DurNominator, 11-Jun-12 08:31 AM, #71
          Reply Wait a minute., Alston, 11-Jun-12 10:16 AM, #74
               Reply RE: Wait a minute., Daevryn, 11-Jun-12 10:37 AM, #75
               Reply FYI... I think Fortress would be raiding about everyone..., Alston, 11-Jun-12 12:18 PM, #77
                    Reply There are evil tribs, and neutral ones doing evil thing..., lasentia, 11-Jun-12 01:15 PM, #78
                         Reply I can't believe I have to spell this out., Alston, 11-Jun-12 06:31 PM, #88
                              Reply RE: I can't believe I have to spell this out., lasentia, 12-Jun-12 08:48 AM, #110
               Reply It's like this., DurNominator, 12-Jun-12 04:33 AM, #106
Reply Alas, the majority and imms disagree with you. And tyra..., Batman (Anonymous), 09-Jun-12 06:30 AM, #34
Reply Would all of the people who hate on Nexus please name t..., Puhguly, 08-Jun-12 04:38 PM, #21
Reply This kills me., Alston, 08-Jun-12 07:17 PM, #22
Reply The reason I bring it up is this, Puhguly, 08-Jun-12 08:15 PM, #26
     Reply Yes I can. God that's a stupid argument., Alston, 08-Jun-12 10:07 PM, #29
     Reply You don't even understand neutrality properly., DurNominator, 09-Jun-12 05:42 AM, #33
          Reply Of course I do. And I don't think Nexun is the only int..., Alston, 09-Jun-12 08:52 AM, #37
               Reply I don't remember any AD&D class required to be lawful., Homard, 09-Jun-12 09:07 AM, #39
               Reply I meant Monks., Alston, 09-Jun-12 10:49 AM, #41
                    Reply Yep, Tsunami, 09-Jun-12 10:57 AM, #42
                    Reply They could never be Lawful Good. Because you can't sudd..., Alston, 09-Jun-12 11:41 AM, #46
                         Reply You just kind of said that Maran cant be good with that..., Puhguly, 09-Jun-12 12:52 PM, #48
                         Reply Maran want genocide vs dark-elf nt, Tsunami, 09-Jun-12 03:27 PM, #50
                              Reply Yep. Where's the disconnect here? But to be more clear...., Alston, 09-Jun-12 04:12 PM, #51
                                   Reply So..., Tsunami, 09-Jun-12 04:31 PM, #52
                                        Reply First of all I strayed when I agreed with your genocide..., Alston, 09-Jun-12 04:58 PM, #53
                                             Reply RE: First of all I strayed when I agreed with your geno..., Tsunami, 09-Jun-12 08:38 PM #57
                                                  Reply My beef with Nexus is how we are forced to accept them., Alston, 10-Jun-12 08:33 AM, #60
                                                       Reply Play something other than Fortress, Malakhi, 10-Jun-12 10:31 AM, #61
                                                       Reply I have followed through on my threats. Thank you very m..., Alston, 10-Jun-12 11:22 AM, #62
                                                            Reply No, you haven't., Malakhi, 11-Jun-12 12:53 PM, #79
                                                            Reply n/t, Alston, 11-Jun-12 06:40 PM, #92
                                                       Reply You are forced to accept neutrals of Battle and Outland..., DurNominator, 10-Jun-12 11:50 AM, #63
                                                            Reply They should. And I do on an indiviual basis., Alston, 10-Jun-12 11:54 AM, #64
                                                                 Reply You're unnecessarily limiting yourself., Homard, 10-Jun-12 12:45 PM, #65
                    Reply Thanks. Bringing it all back. n/t, Homard, 09-Jun-12 11:16 AM, #44
               Reply Neutral ragers and outlanders frequently hunt goodies., DurNominator, 09-Jun-12 11:31 AM, #45
                    Reply I think Ragers should be enemies of the Fortress too., Alston, 09-Jun-12 11:44 AM, #47
     Reply Seconded, DurNominator, 09-Jun-12 05:40 AM, #32
          Reply Thirded, lasentia, 09-Jun-12 09:26 AM, #40
Reply I've had several, and I still loathe the cabal. , Vladamir, 09-Jun-12 07:09 AM, #36
Reply I've played several Nexuns., TMNS, 11-Jun-12 04:31 PM, #84
     Reply RE: I've played several Nexuns., Graatch, 11-Jun-12 05:54 PM, #86
Reply Everyone already has their minds made up. There's no co..., Treebeard, 08-Jun-12 12:16 PM, #18
Reply Re: Nexun = Chaotic evil., Shapa, 08-Jun-12 08:58 AM, #14
Reply Am I the only one..., Tac, 08-Jun-12 08:48 AM, #13
Reply Take care of this in game., The Heretic, 08-Jun-12 08:29 AM, #11
Reply Nexus = true neutral, DurNominator, 08-Jun-12 07:07 AM, #6
Reply Irrelevant, Graatch, 08-Jun-12 07:22 AM, #7
     Reply RE: Irrelevant, Daevryn, 08-Jun-12 07:36 AM, #8
     Reply RE: Irrelevant, orangepowered, 08-Jun-12 07:58 AM, #9
     Reply Wouldn't ragers be always my enemy if I see them hit my..., DurNominator, 08-Jun-12 08:15 AM, #10
     Reply you missed half the argument, was that intentional?, laxman, 08-Jun-12 08:37 AM, #12
     Reply That's simply not true., Graatch, 08-Jun-12 10:27 AM, #15
          Reply I guess I don't know what you are trying to say, laxman, 08-Jun-12 11:12 AM, #16
          Reply RE: I guess I don't know what you are trying to say, Graatch, 08-Jun-12 11:20 AM, #17
          Reply I get what he's saying, it's the law of increasing retu..., Vladamir, 08-Jun-12 02:30 PM, #19
               Reply Everyone does., Tsunami, 08-Jun-12 02:45 PM, #20
               Reply Wrong., Alston, 08-Jun-12 07:24 PM, #23
                    Reply Well, Tsunami, 08-Jun-12 09:21 PM, #27
                         Reply Quick addition, Tsunami, 08-Jun-12 09:23 PM, #28
                              Reply The Staffs very specific enforcment of it is thus..., Alston, 08-Jun-12 10:33 PM, #30
                                   Reply That's fine by me, Tsunami, 09-Jun-12 12:28 AM, #31
                                   Reply I personally think it's the opposite., Alston, 09-Jun-12 09:04 AM, #38
                                   Reply RE: The Staffs very specific enforcment of it is thus....., Daevryn, 09-Jun-12 11:12 AM, #43
                                        Reply I understand the first half, the second half is just du..., Alston, 09-Jun-12 02:07 PM, #49
                                             Reply RE: I understand the first half, the second half is jus..., Daevryn, 09-Jun-12 06:30 PM, #54
                                                  Reply It's the soldier in me that keeps this festering., Alston, 09-Jun-12 06:52 PM, #55
                                                  Reply Possible solution, if you want to try it., Akresius, 09-Jun-12 08:13 PM, #56
                                                       Reply Do you have any idea how broad my paint brush is?, Alston, 10-Jun-12 07:44 AM, #59
                                                  Reply as Celebrimbor, I had the Marans take the key a few tim..., Vladamir, 10-Jun-12 04:28 AM, #58
               Reply RE: I get what he's saying, it's the law of increasing ..., Elerosse, 08-Jun-12 07:42 PM, #24
          Reply RE: That's simply not true., Daevryn, 09-Jun-12 06:56 AM, #35
               Reply Which doesn't forgive attrocity. n/t, Alston, 11-Jun-12 06:51 PM, #94
                    Reply You dont seem to appreciate, Artificial, 11-Jun-12 07:40 PM, #95
     Reply RE: Irrelevant, Elerosse, 08-Jun-12 07:53 PM, #25
Reply I'm starting an Occupy Pro Movement..., Welverin, 08-Jun-12 05:51 AM, #4
Reply I thought your post would be, Artificial, 08-Jun-12 07:00 AM, #5
Reply RE: I'm starting an Occupy Nexun movement., orangepowered, 07-Jun-12 11:57 PM, #3
Reply RE: I'm starting an Occupy Nexun movement., Daevryn, 07-Jun-12 08:08 PM, #1
     Reply Alright. I wasn't sure how you felt about it. I won't b..., Alston, 07-Jun-12 09:00 PM, #2
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