> Put bluntly I think berserkers shouldnt be honourbound at all, the fact they are called berserkers means that they should attack on sight.

OK. Apparently though this is not how Ordasen saw it, which is the important thing.

> However as I said before I can not for the life of me remember perma gank groups in battle.

I can't name any permagangs, but I have been ganged 4 on 1 by battle a few times over the years and not in a raid situation (unless you count chasing someone from eastern road into holy grove when they've not been near a cabal as a raid situation).

> Especially in comparison to all the others in other cabals. People accept ganks from them, but choose not to from ragers who are at a massive no magic disadvantage.

Most people complain about ganks whereever they come from. IC, however, it's really only 'zerkers and paladins that have any sort of restriction unless an individual chooses to make it part of their rp.

> In reguards to the fight on the sea, personaly from my stand point I think its legit. Even if it doesnt fit the knights code of honour conduct that jinroh and ordansen have decided to gayly put on berserkers. AND which jinroh is now trying to enforce on other ragers +####ING GAY.

> You had traba earlier on, traba was only in Hamsah, if your fighting two on two, and considering sammie I think was sub 45, they were taking advantage of the tactical edge that you and your zombies were alone.

I didn't have Traba. Traba came to help me kill a storm giant and zombify it, but then I finished it myself before Traba reached me, and he left. After that I had no idea where he was. However, I did call to him when I saw both villagers.

> You and traba jumped adgrizn when he was alone, ####it you know what Im getting at.

You're missing a crucial point here. First thing that happened was two attacked me on open sea. I ran into Hamsah. Adgrizn attacked me in Hamsah, becoming a criminal. At that point he is wanted and the vindicator becomes obliged to hunt him. Had he not struck me in the city then Traba would not have become involved. And on top of that, the spire can vouch for their being plenty of times when I asked them to stand aside and let me deal with a criminal alone in order to demonstrate the spire's strength. I would have thought the village berserkers would want something similar. But this is really secondary to the next point.

> #### shouldnt apply unless its for both sides.

OK. This is where I really disagree. That's like saying paladins shouldn't have to show honor, and should be allowed to murder groupmates because the evils get to.

The point is that berserkers get their powers at a cost. The cost is that you aren't meant to use them with the numbers that ended up being used. If you were, they'd get toned down.

> PS: this isnt a personaly jab at anyone for ganking, or lack of skill in pking etc. Its just a simple statement.

I appreciate that. But I don't agree with the statement. As Gratch likes to tell us, the village has a history above and beyond that of the other cabals. They get some of the strongest powers (not deathblow) but not without a cost in terms of their behavior. It's a bit like tribunals. If tribunals were to start flagging lowbies and taking their gear, they'd get the boot as soon as they were caught. The powerful (with the city) trib powers come with behavioral obligations.