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IsildurWed 11-Jun-03 11:49 AM
Member since 04th Mar 2003
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#1254, "Rebuttal."


          

Let me first say that for the most part I agree with what you wrote. At least the "spirit" of it. In a few places, though, I think you're too black-and-white about things.

>People constantly complain about ganging. My response? "Deal
>with it." If you get ganged, generally it is your fault.

Here's the first point I'd take issue with. "If you're constantly getting ganged, you must be doing something wrong." Will address below.

>However, there are some situations where you can't avoid a
>ganging, i.e. a bunch of people hidden beyond your perception
>jump out and attack you, or you get summoned right-quick by a
>group that popped up out of nowhere in your area, raids, or
>whatever.

i.e. three things that keep me awake at night.

>Back in the old days, do you think the Roman Legions turned to
>each other and said... "Oh wait, we 5,000 can't raid that
>village, that's sooooooo unfair. Okay, you 300 go, maybe some
>of you will get hurt, that otherwise wouldn't if we ALL went,
>but hey, it's more fair, ya know?"

It really pains me to do it but I'm going to quote TLB #1. It might be more realistic if the game had a defecate command. Would that make it more fun or interesting? Not really. The point being that realism *alone* isn't a good enough reason for something to be in the game. Now, there may well be reasons *other* than realism for why excessive ganging is a good thing...but that's a different argument.

>We all know that ganging is a very possible thing, and being
>well aware of that, we choose to play Carrion Fields. We all
>also know of the tremendous RP atmosphere, player interaction,
>and all the other good stuff, and being well aware of THAT, we
>choose to play Carrion Fields.

I know cheating is a very possible thing, and being aware of that, I still choose to play Carrion Fields. That doesn't make cheating an acceptable part of the game. Note: I'm not saying ganging is comparable to cheating. The argument could be made, though, that they're similar in that they both detract from the enjoyability of the game.

>If you're getting ganged constantly, you're doing something
>wrong. Swallow your pride and admit it. That's the first
>step. I'd then suggest you look over your logs, see what you
>did wrong, or at least what could have been done to avoid it.

Looking over logs is always educational. But I'm not convinced that getting ganged alot is always the gang-ee's fault. To take a page from history, consider the sylvan gang that chased Valguarnera all over Thera before eventually killing him. Old-school transmuter w/ air focus, shaman, ranger, two invokers. Air form to scout, shaman to summon, ranger to snare, invokers to spam pebble. Now, if all Valguarnera wanted to do is avoid dying, yeah, he could probably have accomplished that by just hiding somewhere and twiddling his thumbs. With that group after him, though, doing anything remotely productive or interesting suddenly becomes *extremely* risky.

Now, imagine he still has some ranking to do and that the gang immediately goes for him again as soon as he unghosts. (That part didn't happen, but judging by peoples' complaints it does nowdays.) How could he avoid being ganged? Quit or hide. Nobody's a fan of characters quitting when the odds are against them, and hiding's just boring.

>Did you type "where" enough? Or even "who pk" for that
>matter? Are you able to see invisible/hidden/camo/whatever?
>Were you trying to be a hero and fight a 1v3 battle, "standing
>up for what you believe in" and instead got your ass handed to
>you? Were you just travelling along and got jumped? See:
>"Typing WHE" above.

All good advice, but it won't always save you. You say as much later on, but I think this fact sort of invalidates the statement that people who are ganged alot are doing something wrong. Unless that "something wrong" is "not quitting out".

>Or, you could just come to the OOC forums and complain that you
>got ganged.

I could be wrong, but I think the complainers aren't so much concerned with "normal" ganging. By that I mean ganging that is RP-motivated, doesn't involve multi-killing, and isn't the *only* way those characters are ever involved in PK. From the complainers' point of view, they see a horde of good-aligned heros that all group up and go multi-kill any evil that ranks in their range, each member of the gang rarely ever fighting when not part of a large group. Surely you can see how that might get frustrating.

>Try playing a different race and/or class. You may just not
>be "into" Carrion Fields yet. Try playing an assassin, as
>they can see both hidden and invisible, or a Svirfnebli Thief,
>or a Duergar Anti-Paladin, or... If perception is your
>problem, then go for one of the combos that will allow you to
>see hidden/invis.

Good advice. It limits the combos you can play, but still good advice. This will fly in the face of role-play, but here's some more advice- once you pick a class, consider choosing your alignment and cabal to minimize the potential enemies that can make your life miserable. Maybe you choose assassin to get detect hiden and detect invis for free. Who will cause you the most problems? Thieves, for one, but there's not alot you can do about that short of an IC arrangement with the Thieves' Guild. Other than thieves, duergar and summoners can both make your life miserable. How can you best nullify the duergar threat? Join Empire. This may piss off the village, but possibly not if you play your cards right. And besides, villagers aren't likely to be in a gang with a summoner, so you're more likely to see them coming and be able to take evasive action.

Joining Empire would also get the more skilled thieves off your back, considering that's where they're most likely to end up. Navarro anyone? One downside- being an Imperial gets Sylvan on your back if you're not already a defiler. As an alternative, you could play a non-drow and remain uncaballed, then try to arrange some IC alliance to get Empire off your back. Personally I'd rather have the Warders after me, though snaring rangers w/ big gangs to back them up is pretty scary.

  

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TopicGanging, Tactics and Suggestions... Oh My! [View all] , Zepachu, Wed 11-Jun-03 11:06 AM
Reply ganging, and avoiding it, incognito, 11-Jun-03 03:12 PM, #5
Reply RE: Ganging, Tactics and Suggestions... Oh My!, Gabe, 11-Jun-03 11:49 AM, #2
Reply RE: Ganging, Tactics and Suggestions... Oh My!, Zepachu, 11-Jun-03 12:44 PM, #4
Reply Rebuttal., Isildur, 11-Jun-03 11:49 AM #1
     Reply Rebuttal and Idea!, Zepachu, 11-Jun-03 12:36 PM, #3
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