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EskelianTue 21-Aug-07 12:31 PM
Member since 04th Mar 2003
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#1341, "RE: Do you consider it possible to prove God exits?"


          

...certainly less speculative than believing extra-terrestrial influence in the process...

I'm just curious, how would you justify it is less speculative in any sort of manner that isn't a logical fallacy?

At the heart of that argument, should it be boiled down far enough, you find yourself addressing "First cause".

The primary argument in favor of science can represented as "there must be a physical cause and effect in all systems". Macroevolution is the effect of mutations (the cause), which in turn have inner cause/effects, which have inner cause/effects. Every observable, natural behavior is deterministic to some degree or another and science is the art of figuring out what the factors are. Religion states that things are supernatural, that things merely are. If you follow either path, you're left with a paradox. If everything is a cause/effect, then its inherently paradoxical leading towards the infinite. However if there is a "first cause", what came before that, who decided that is the nature of things?

I'd argue that saying either is more speculative than the other is pretty hard to determine.

  

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HOT TopicAbout evolution [View all] , Nightgaunt_, Mon 20-Aug-07 09:43 AM
Reply Final thoughts., Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 08:25 AM, #72
Reply RE: Final thoughts., Nightgaunt_, 22-Aug-07 12:30 PM, #76
Reply RE: Final thoughts., Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 01:00 PM, #78
     Reply I've got to tell you:, Daevryn, 22-Aug-07 01:16 PM, #79
     Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 01:22 PM, #80
          Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Tac, 22-Aug-07 01:37 PM, #83
          Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Valguarnera, 22-Aug-07 03:06 PM, #86
          Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 09:51 PM, #90
               Reply Actually, Nightgaunt_, 23-Aug-07 01:49 AM, #93
               Reply RE: Actually, Eskelian, 23-Aug-07 08:17 AM, #99
                    Reply RE: Actually, Nightgaunt_, 23-Aug-07 09:42 AM, #104
               Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Valguarnera, 23-Aug-07 07:25 AM, #95
          Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 09:44 PM, #89
               Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Nightgaunt_, 23-Aug-07 09:50 AM, #105
          Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Daevryn, 22-Aug-07 03:16 PM, #87
          Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 09:40 PM, #88
               Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Daevryn, 22-Aug-07 11:04 PM, #92
                    Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Eskelian, 23-Aug-07 08:01 AM, #97
                         Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Daevryn, 23-Aug-07 08:11 AM, #98
                         Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Eskelian, 23-Aug-07 08:25 AM, #100
                              Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Daevryn, 23-Aug-07 08:52 AM, #101
                              Reply If you read something you believe to be true, Leprechaun, 23-Aug-07 09:11 AM, #102
                         Reply RE: Book Larnin, Valguarnera, 23-Aug-07 09:12 AM, #103
                              Reply RE: Book Larnin, Eskelian, 23-Aug-07 01:18 PM, #106
                                   Reply RE: Book Larnin, Valguarnera, 23-Aug-07 02:03 PM, #107
                                        Reply RE: Book Larnin, Eskelian, 03-Sep-07 03:09 PM, #112
          Reply Water is wet ..., Leprechaun, 23-Aug-07 03:18 AM, #94
     Reply RE: Final thoughts., Nightgaunt_, 22-Aug-07 01:23 PM, #81
          Reply RE: Final thoughts., Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 01:32 PM, #82
               Reply RE: Final thoughts., Nightgaunt_, 22-Aug-07 01:48 PM, #84
Reply The problematic of the issue, DurNominator, 26-Aug-07 10:18 PM, #108
Reply I feel that this is on topic, DurNominator, 12-Sep-07 04:10 PM, #117
Reply RE: About evolution, Tac, 20-Aug-07 04:52 PM, #9
Reply RE: About evolution, Daevryn, 20-Aug-07 10:02 PM, #13
     Reply RE: About evolution, Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 08:47 AM, #18
          Reply RE: About evolution, Nightgaunt_, 21-Aug-07 09:02 AM, #21
          Reply RE: About evolution, Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 09:06 AM, #23
               Reply And the bottom line..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 09:16 AM, #25
               Reply RE: And the bottom line..., Valguarnera, 21-Aug-07 12:31 PM, #44
                    Reply RE: And the bottom line..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 12:37 PM, #47
                         Reply Silly?, GinGa, 22-Aug-07 08:47 AM, #73
               Reply Sorta side-track, but ..., Leprechaun, 21-Aug-07 10:10 AM, #29
          Reply RE: About evolution, Daevryn, 21-Aug-07 09:38 AM, #28
Reply RE: About evolution, Isildur, 20-Aug-07 11:25 AM, #4
Reply RE: About evolution, Nightgaunt_, 20-Aug-07 01:29 PM, #6
     Reply RE: About evolution, Isildur, 20-Aug-07 05:11 PM, #10
          Reply RE: About evolution, Nightgaunt_, 21-Aug-07 08:54 AM, #20
               Reply RE: About evolution, Isildur, 21-Aug-07 11:03 AM, #38
                    Reply Do you consider it possible to prove God exits?, Tac, 21-Aug-07 11:53 AM, #40
                         Reply RE: Do you consider it possible to prove God exits?, Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 12:31 PM #43
                         Reply RE: Do you consider it possible to prove God exits?, Tac, 21-Aug-07 12:33 PM, #45
                              Reply RE: Do you consider it possible to prove God exits?, Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 12:38 PM, #48
                                   Reply Seriously?, Tac, 21-Aug-07 12:50 PM, #53
                                        Reply RE: Seriously?, Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 01:12 PM, #56
                                             Reply RE: Seriously?, Tac, 21-Aug-07 02:09 PM, #58
                                                  Reply RE: Seriously?, Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 08:49 AM, #74
                         Reply RE: Do you consider it possible to prove God exits?, Isildur, 21-Aug-07 03:26 PM, #61
Reply Yes, very much so, Leprechaun, 20-Aug-07 10:11 AM, #2
Reply RE: Mutation rates, Valguarnera, 20-Aug-07 10:43 AM, #3
     Reply Hey cool, thanks for the info nt, Leprechaun, 20-Aug-07 12:10 PM, #5
     Reply On the subject of mutation: Cancer, Leprechaun, 21-Aug-07 06:54 AM, #15
          Reply RE: On the subject of mutation: Cancer, Valguarnera, 21-Aug-07 12:40 PM, #49
               Reply A small addition, GinGa, 22-Aug-07 10:12 AM, #75
Reply RE: About evolution, Valguarnera, 20-Aug-07 10:02 AM, #1
     Reply RE: About evolution, Eskelian, 20-Aug-07 03:49 PM, #7
          Reply RE: About evolution, Nightgaunt_, 20-Aug-07 04:10 PM, #8
          Reply RE: About evolution, Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 08:43 AM, #17
          Reply RE: Irreducible complexity, Valguarnera, 20-Aug-07 08:50 PM, #11
          Reply RE: Irreducible complexity, Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 08:37 AM, #16
               Reply About random, Nightgaunt_, 21-Aug-07 08:52 AM, #19
                    Reply RE: About random, Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 09:20 AM, #24
                         Reply RE: About random, Nightgaunt_, 21-Aug-07 09:22 AM, #26
                              Reply RE: About random, Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 09:29 AM, #27
                                   Reply RE: About random, Nightgaunt_, 21-Aug-07 09:45 AM, #30
          Reply RE: About evolution, Daevryn, 20-Aug-07 09:49 PM, #12
               Reply Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be incor..., Leprechaun, 21-Aug-07 05:19 AM, #14
               Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 09:03 AM, #22
                    Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Valguarnera, 21-Aug-07 09:50 AM, #31
                         Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 10:26 AM, #32
                         Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Nightgaunt_, 21-Aug-07 10:18 AM, #33
                         Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 10:29 AM, #34
                              Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Nightgaunt_, 21-Aug-07 10:39 AM, #36
                                   Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 10:47 AM, #37
                         Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Valguarnera, 21-Aug-07 12:22 PM, #42
                              Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 12:35 PM, #46
                                   Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Valguarnera, 21-Aug-07 12:41 PM, #50
                                   Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 12:44 PM, #51
                                        Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Valguarnera, 21-Aug-07 12:47 PM, #52
                                             Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 12:51 PM, #54
                                                  Reply RE: Solipsism:, Valguarnera, 21-Aug-07 02:13 PM, #59
                                                       Reply RE: Solipsism:, Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 05:02 PM, #63
                                                            Reply RE: Solipsism:, Valguarnera, 22-Aug-07 07:43 AM, #68
                                   Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Daevryn, 21-Aug-07 01:10 PM, #55
                                        Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 01:34 PM, #57
                                             Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Nightgaunt_, 21-Aug-07 02:14 PM, #60
                                                  Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 04:57 PM, #62
                                                       Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Nightgaunt_, 22-Aug-07 04:22 AM, #65
                                                            Reply RE: Observables, Valguarnera, 22-Aug-07 07:35 AM, #67
                                                            Reply RE: Observables, Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 08:06 AM, #70
                                                                 Reply RE: Observables, Valguarnera, 22-Aug-07 08:14 AM, #71
                                                                      Reply RE: Observables, Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 12:49 PM, #77
                                                                           Reply RE: Observables, Valguarnera, 22-Aug-07 02:57 PM, #85
                                                                           Reply RE: Observables, Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 10:27 PM, #91
                                                                           Reply RE: Observables, Valguarnera, 23-Aug-07 07:24 AM, #96
                                                                           Reply RE: Observables, DurNominator, 27-Aug-07 12:33 AM, #110
                                                                           Reply RE: Observables, Eskelian, 27-Aug-07 10:32 AM, #111
                                                                           Reply Then don't, DurNominator, 03-Sep-07 03:42 PM, #113
                                                                           Reply RE: Then don't, Eskelian, 03-Sep-07 10:10 PM, #114
                                                                           Reply Re: Trolling, Daevryn, 03-Sep-07 10:41 PM, #115
                                                                           Reply RE: Re: Trolling, Tac, 04-Sep-07 08:34 AM, #116
                                                                           Reply RE: Re: Trolling, Eskelian, 18-Sep-07 10:14 PM, #118
                                                                           Reply RE: Observables, DurNominator, 26-Aug-07 11:46 PM, #109
                                                            Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 08:00 AM, #69
                         Reply Sure but txt, Larcat, 21-Aug-07 10:39 AM, #35
                              Reply RE: Sure but txt, Tac, 21-Aug-07 11:50 AM, #39
                              Reply RE: Sure but txt, Valguarnera, 21-Aug-07 12:03 PM, #41
               Reply RE: About evolution, Straklaw, 22-Aug-07 03:33 AM, #64
                    Reply RE: Mathematics, Valguarnera, 22-Aug-07 07:23 AM, #66
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