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Top Non-CF Discussion "What Does RL Stand For?" Topic #1287
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EskelianWed 22-Aug-07 01:00 PM
Member since 04th Mar 2003
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#1380, "RE: Final thoughts."


          

>Actually when it comes to discussions like these one can in
>my opinion work three different points.
>
>1. Direct evidence. This requires deep understanding of the
>subject and the ability to read and understand science papers
>and reports correctly.

See below. Burden of proof isn't on my shoulders.

>2. My scientists are better than your scientists. Pointing out
>flaws in the other ones scientists and their failed reasoning
>and/or their hidden agendas.

I don't understand what you're implying with this. Science will concede that Newton's laws are approximations, but you can't concede that evolution is as well?

>3. A whole different philosophy/background. Like introducing
>god into a scientific discussion. Then it becomes more about
>the scientific method and its faults vs some different view on
>the world.

The problem is more that some people won't admit that the scientific method contains faults. It is not the equivalent of a mathematical proof.

>Problem I see here is that you refuse to do 1. because you
> much like me) don't know enough to refute 1000+ advanced
>science papers. The second one you say is a authority argument
>and that leaves the third one. But the problem is you seem to
>refuse to apply it on anything else than evolution.

Why do I have to do your homework? I say I'm not certain, you say you are. That indicates the burden of proof is on your shoulders. Saying "I don't know" doesn't require a proof. Saying "I do know" does.

>This all shows how hard it is to discuss a subject like this
>because it can only be true or false. A discussion about for
>example "Are the US doing good in Iraq" can be filled with
>opinions like "Because of X I think they suck" or "Nah, if you
>look at Y I think it will turn out alright".
>
>So what should I say. What is it you don't trust about it? The
>evidence? The scientists? The scientific method/our view at
>world?

I view the theory of evolution as a partial explanation to one factor of the very broad question of "Why and how are we here?" Like I said in my first post - its a piece of a far larger puzzle, one riddled with complexities and uncertainties. As such, claiming there's one golden answer to the whole problem to me seems unintuitive and improbable.

We're adding to the theory of evolution regularly and still looking for evidence to prove any number of models for the origin of life - I'd say at this point its fair to say the jury isn't in yet on the matter.

  

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HOT TopicAbout evolution [View all] , Nightgaunt_, Mon 20-Aug-07 09:43 AM
Reply Final thoughts., Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 08:25 AM, #72
Reply RE: Final thoughts., Nightgaunt_, 22-Aug-07 12:30 PM, #76
Reply RE: Final thoughts., Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 01:00 PM #78
     Reply I've got to tell you:, Daevryn, 22-Aug-07 01:16 PM, #79
     Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 01:22 PM, #80
          Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Tac, 22-Aug-07 01:37 PM, #83
          Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Valguarnera, 22-Aug-07 03:06 PM, #86
          Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 09:51 PM, #90
               Reply Actually, Nightgaunt_, 23-Aug-07 01:49 AM, #93
               Reply RE: Actually, Eskelian, 23-Aug-07 08:17 AM, #99
                    Reply RE: Actually, Nightgaunt_, 23-Aug-07 09:42 AM, #104
               Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Valguarnera, 23-Aug-07 07:25 AM, #95
          Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 09:44 PM, #89
               Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Nightgaunt_, 23-Aug-07 09:50 AM, #105
          Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Daevryn, 22-Aug-07 03:16 PM, #87
          Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 09:40 PM, #88
               Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Daevryn, 22-Aug-07 11:04 PM, #92
                    Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Eskelian, 23-Aug-07 08:01 AM, #97
                         Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Daevryn, 23-Aug-07 08:11 AM, #98
                         Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Eskelian, 23-Aug-07 08:25 AM, #100
                              Reply RE: I've got to tell you:, Daevryn, 23-Aug-07 08:52 AM, #101
                              Reply If you read something you believe to be true, Leprechaun, 23-Aug-07 09:11 AM, #102
                         Reply RE: Book Larnin, Valguarnera, 23-Aug-07 09:12 AM, #103
                              Reply RE: Book Larnin, Eskelian, 23-Aug-07 01:18 PM, #106
                                   Reply RE: Book Larnin, Valguarnera, 23-Aug-07 02:03 PM, #107
                                        Reply RE: Book Larnin, Eskelian, 03-Sep-07 03:09 PM, #112
          Reply Water is wet ..., Leprechaun, 23-Aug-07 03:18 AM, #94
     Reply RE: Final thoughts., Nightgaunt_, 22-Aug-07 01:23 PM, #81
          Reply RE: Final thoughts., Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 01:32 PM, #82
               Reply RE: Final thoughts., Nightgaunt_, 22-Aug-07 01:48 PM, #84
Reply The problematic of the issue, DurNominator, 26-Aug-07 10:18 PM, #108
Reply I feel that this is on topic, DurNominator, 12-Sep-07 04:10 PM, #117
Reply RE: About evolution, Tac, 20-Aug-07 04:52 PM, #9
Reply RE: About evolution, Daevryn, 20-Aug-07 10:02 PM, #13
     Reply RE: About evolution, Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 08:47 AM, #18
          Reply RE: About evolution, Nightgaunt_, 21-Aug-07 09:02 AM, #21
          Reply RE: About evolution, Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 09:06 AM, #23
               Reply And the bottom line..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 09:16 AM, #25
               Reply RE: And the bottom line..., Valguarnera, 21-Aug-07 12:31 PM, #44
                    Reply RE: And the bottom line..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 12:37 PM, #47
                         Reply Silly?, GinGa, 22-Aug-07 08:47 AM, #73
               Reply Sorta side-track, but ..., Leprechaun, 21-Aug-07 10:10 AM, #29
          Reply RE: About evolution, Daevryn, 21-Aug-07 09:38 AM, #28
Reply RE: About evolution, Isildur, 20-Aug-07 11:25 AM, #4
Reply RE: About evolution, Nightgaunt_, 20-Aug-07 01:29 PM, #6
     Reply RE: About evolution, Isildur, 20-Aug-07 05:11 PM, #10
          Reply RE: About evolution, Nightgaunt_, 21-Aug-07 08:54 AM, #20
               Reply RE: About evolution, Isildur, 21-Aug-07 11:03 AM, #38
                    Reply Do you consider it possible to prove God exits?, Tac, 21-Aug-07 11:53 AM, #40
                         Reply RE: Do you consider it possible to prove God exits?, Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 12:31 PM, #43
                         Reply RE: Do you consider it possible to prove God exits?, Tac, 21-Aug-07 12:33 PM, #45
                              Reply RE: Do you consider it possible to prove God exits?, Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 12:38 PM, #48
                                   Reply Seriously?, Tac, 21-Aug-07 12:50 PM, #53
                                        Reply RE: Seriously?, Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 01:12 PM, #56
                                             Reply RE: Seriously?, Tac, 21-Aug-07 02:09 PM, #58
                                                  Reply RE: Seriously?, Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 08:49 AM, #74
                         Reply RE: Do you consider it possible to prove God exits?, Isildur, 21-Aug-07 03:26 PM, #61
Reply Yes, very much so, Leprechaun, 20-Aug-07 10:11 AM, #2
Reply RE: Mutation rates, Valguarnera, 20-Aug-07 10:43 AM, #3
     Reply Hey cool, thanks for the info nt, Leprechaun, 20-Aug-07 12:10 PM, #5
     Reply On the subject of mutation: Cancer, Leprechaun, 21-Aug-07 06:54 AM, #15
          Reply RE: On the subject of mutation: Cancer, Valguarnera, 21-Aug-07 12:40 PM, #49
               Reply A small addition, GinGa, 22-Aug-07 10:12 AM, #75
Reply RE: About evolution, Valguarnera, 20-Aug-07 10:02 AM, #1
     Reply RE: About evolution, Eskelian, 20-Aug-07 03:49 PM, #7
          Reply RE: About evolution, Nightgaunt_, 20-Aug-07 04:10 PM, #8
          Reply RE: About evolution, Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 08:43 AM, #17
          Reply RE: Irreducible complexity, Valguarnera, 20-Aug-07 08:50 PM, #11
          Reply RE: Irreducible complexity, Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 08:37 AM, #16
               Reply About random, Nightgaunt_, 21-Aug-07 08:52 AM, #19
                    Reply RE: About random, Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 09:20 AM, #24
                         Reply RE: About random, Nightgaunt_, 21-Aug-07 09:22 AM, #26
                              Reply RE: About random, Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 09:29 AM, #27
                                   Reply RE: About random, Nightgaunt_, 21-Aug-07 09:45 AM, #30
          Reply RE: About evolution, Daevryn, 20-Aug-07 09:49 PM, #12
               Reply Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be incor..., Leprechaun, 21-Aug-07 05:19 AM, #14
               Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 09:03 AM, #22
                    Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Valguarnera, 21-Aug-07 09:50 AM, #31
                         Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 10:26 AM, #32
                         Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Nightgaunt_, 21-Aug-07 10:18 AM, #33
                         Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 10:29 AM, #34
                              Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Nightgaunt_, 21-Aug-07 10:39 AM, #36
                                   Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 10:47 AM, #37
                         Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Valguarnera, 21-Aug-07 12:22 PM, #42
                              Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 12:35 PM, #46
                                   Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Valguarnera, 21-Aug-07 12:41 PM, #50
                                   Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 12:44 PM, #51
                                        Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Valguarnera, 21-Aug-07 12:47 PM, #52
                                             Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 12:51 PM, #54
                                                  Reply RE: Solipsism:, Valguarnera, 21-Aug-07 02:13 PM, #59
                                                       Reply RE: Solipsism:, Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 05:02 PM, #63
                                                            Reply RE: Solipsism:, Valguarnera, 22-Aug-07 07:43 AM, #68
                                   Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Daevryn, 21-Aug-07 01:10 PM, #55
                                        Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 01:34 PM, #57
                                             Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Nightgaunt_, 21-Aug-07 02:14 PM, #60
                                                  Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Eskelian, 21-Aug-07 04:57 PM, #62
                                                       Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Nightgaunt_, 22-Aug-07 04:22 AM, #65
                                                            Reply RE: Observables, Valguarnera, 22-Aug-07 07:35 AM, #67
                                                            Reply RE: Observables, Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 08:06 AM, #70
                                                                 Reply RE: Observables, Valguarnera, 22-Aug-07 08:14 AM, #71
                                                                      Reply RE: Observables, Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 12:49 PM, #77
                                                                           Reply RE: Observables, Valguarnera, 22-Aug-07 02:57 PM, #85
                                                                           Reply RE: Observables, Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 10:27 PM, #91
                                                                           Reply RE: Observables, Valguarnera, 23-Aug-07 07:24 AM, #96
                                                                           Reply RE: Observables, DurNominator, 27-Aug-07 12:33 AM, #110
                                                                           Reply RE: Observables, Eskelian, 27-Aug-07 10:32 AM, #111
                                                                           Reply Then don't, DurNominator, 03-Sep-07 03:42 PM, #113
                                                                           Reply RE: Then don't, Eskelian, 03-Sep-07 10:10 PM, #114
                                                                           Reply Re: Trolling, Daevryn, 03-Sep-07 10:41 PM, #115
                                                                           Reply RE: Re: Trolling, Tac, 04-Sep-07 08:34 AM, #116
                                                                           Reply RE: Re: Trolling, Eskelian, 18-Sep-07 10:14 PM, #118
                                                                           Reply RE: Observables, DurNominator, 26-Aug-07 11:46 PM, #109
                                                            Reply RE: Basically any theory is valid unless proven to be i..., Eskelian, 22-Aug-07 08:00 AM, #69
                         Reply Sure but txt, Larcat, 21-Aug-07 10:39 AM, #35
                              Reply RE: Sure but txt, Tac, 21-Aug-07 11:50 AM, #39
                              Reply RE: Sure but txt, Valguarnera, 21-Aug-07 12:03 PM, #41
               Reply RE: About evolution, Straklaw, 22-Aug-07 03:33 AM, #64
                    Reply RE: Mathematics, Valguarnera, 22-Aug-07 07:23 AM, #66
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