>>You've played enough ragers to know Vladamir. What gets me,
>>is that you continue to try to bend the policies. Each time
>>you are called out on it, you cry foul. Sorry, but the
>>standards don't change based on how many ragers you've
>>played.
>
>This was actually my first uninduction, so I don't know how
>"each time" I can cry foul, but ok.

I'm talking about the ragers you play, not necessarily what happens to them in the long run. Grolgthus for example.

>>Exactly. Think leaders haven't been booted for similar
>>crap? You've got a head on your shoulders, use it. Just
>>because tyrannical governments had strong authority figures
>> Hitler, Fidel Castro, Hussein) doesn't mean those
>>individuals were 'right'. Again, you've played enough
>>ragers to know that scapegoating your mistakes on the
>>leaders is basically futile.
>
>I just don't see how you can hand out praise to one person,
>and punishment to another for doing the same damn thing.
>Actually what I did was a far cry from some of the utter
>crap I've seen from some of the titled ragers and leadership
>types.

Again, time and situation matter. I'll praise anyone for taking out a critical defender of the Scion cabal before the raid. Use your head about how the odds need to be for this. No one who plays this game deserves to be ganged by a team of 8. I've seen the crap in logs, but until I see it with my own eyes, my hands are tied behind my back. All I can do is make it a point to watch the invididuals in question more carefully (which lately hasn't been too often).

>>Continuing with this...you then failed to accept that this
>>was wrong. Refusing to accept that this was wrong, and
>>pointing out that it had been done before, is what got you
>>uninducted.
>
>What I asked was, why it was wrong for me, but not the
>leaders who set the examples for the cabal. I was basically
>told "Do as they say, not as they do". Since there was about
>60 seconds between the incident, and my uninduction, there
>wasn't a whole lot of time for me to realize there was a
>mistake on my end. You asked why we were ganging, I said I
>didn't think what we had done was a gang. As I was moving to
>a safer position to talk about it, and take my chastisement
>if warranted, I was uninducted.

Right. You know what's right and wrong Grolgthus. You comment on it every day on these forums. The fact that you are sitting here, trying to convince the public that your actions were not 'your fault' is really frustrating.

>>Follow that with the fact that you resorted to cussing at
>>Mr. Immortal over the pray channel and you've basically dug
>>yourself a six foot hole in a matter of minutes.
>
>At that point, I just didn't care anymore, and fully
>intended to delete.

Most people who care usually live with the uninduct/induct that comes after it. Having to practice powers again usually isn't so big a deal.

>>
>>I have no idea of the situation you're referring to.
>>Produce a log and we'll pick it apart. Again, there is a
>>time and a place. If you were raiding and your padres left
>>you hanging to fight in the village alone, I wouldn't bust
>>the chops of villagers who killed you in the village. The
>>same could and would be said of a raid against another
>>cabal.
>
>I was uncaballed, and in the battlefields at the time. It
>wasn't a raid type situation. If I could ever get my
>autologger to work *slaps Snarf* I'd have all kinds of logs,
>but being stuck with good old cut and paste leaves me at a
>logging disadvantage.

*slaps Snarf again for good measure*

I'm at the same disadvantage.

>>Also, as I stated up above - We aren't watching every
>>incident. Don't fault us for something we have not seen.
>
>I'll admit, you can't be everywhere and see everything. But
>you can't expect me to believe with as much as I see it, and
>I really don't play that much anymore, that you don't see
>the same sort of stuff.

You'd be surprised. Imagine how quickly some battles go. Imagine how busy immortals are in other windows working on areas/doing things outside of the mud. I have a wife, a house, a new basset hound pup, and many more things that keep me from just sitting around snooping people because i'm bored. I don't think I need to justify it to the playerbase, but there it goes again.

>>Let' see. Because this is a game and said immortals happen
>>to be the 'GODS' of this game? You want to play with no
>>policies or restrictions on you? Don't join a cabal.
>>Pretty simple.
>
>I'm not saying I want to play with no policies or
>restrictions, but how about a little consistency in how
>those policies are implemented? I still don't consider what
>I did to be a gangbang, and certainly for someone who was
>just inducted to be removed so quickly, and for such a minor
>thing is a lot more extreme than the usual handling of this
>stuff.

It went from minor to a big deal. Initially, I wasn't going to uninduct.

>>The 'funstick' refers to game mechanics, not cabal policies.
>> Policies are pretty cut and dry, but hell, if you feel the
>>need to make a mockery of me by quoting me, more power to
>>you.
>
>I'm not trying to make a mockery out of anything or anyone.
>I'm asking you to be consistent. You can't praise one person
>and punish another for doing the same things under the same
>circumstances, and just expect people to smile and say "Oh
>thats alright. Want me to bend over a little further for
>you?".

Again, I'm claiming ignorance here. I give people praise for things that I feel are worthy of it. I don't know who plays who and really don't care. You can either take my word for it or not. At this point, I doubt anything else is very convincing.


>>On a side note: Something I mentioned in an earlier post.
>>
>>Immortals (none that I've seen )don't start these long
>>flames that produce slander about other character. More
>>often than not, a player will come here or to other sites to
>>vent their frustrations. These usually result in some
>>immortal being called a 'jackass,' declaring that that
>>immortal 'doesn't know squat,' and turns into a bandwagon of
>>players agreeing with this.
>
>I think my post was pretty low-flame. I didn't say anyone
>was a jackass or didn't know squat. (Ok I called you a
>jackass at the time of the incident, but not in my post )
>I pretty much stated my opinion that it takes a lot of the
>fun out of the cabal, when players have to worry that things
>they see others get praise for, will get them punished under
>similar circumstances. I stand behind that opinion. I may
>not have been completely innocent in these circumstances,
>but I certainly don't feel that what I did was a bootable
>offense.
>
>>
>>Note: You don't see immortals starting these threads about
>>'your' character. We have every right to respond in any
>>manner we feel is appropriate, including calling your
>>character out on the spread if misinformation.
>
>This was an opinion. You're welcomed to dispute it, but it's
>still MY opinion. I'm not looking for support, but my
>opinion certainly doesn't seem to be unique.
>
>>I don't think there is much of a line between the immortals
>>and players, but whatever line there is, is propagated by
>>slander on the forums. Stop the slander and you'll probably
>>erase the line. Instead of e-mailing Thror and saying 'Hey
>>Thror, what the hell did I do wrong back there!" - You are
>>in essence going out the door and yelling in public "Thror
>>is an asshole/idiot/stubborn bastard!"
>
>I've tried the other route, and it got me about as far as
>going out the door and yelling. I've sent you logs before,
>and you basically told me the guy in the log was above
>reproach. A week later he's no longer leader, and denied. It
>left a sour taste in my mouth.

Do you ever think that maybe those logs you sent me have me watching the person even more? I can think about one incident that led me to.

The approaches I see, again are on other forums with a big fat sign claiming innocence and damnation to the immortals. I won't take any concerns worth a grain of salt if the source uses those means of getting their point across.


>>I bet you'll find one approach more constructive than the
>>other.
>
>Not really, both approaches really accomplished nothing. I
>went this route to stimulate conversation about the topic.
>Not just to see who thought I was right, but also looking
>for opinions that might show me where I am wrong. I
>certainly don't think I AM wrong, but you know, some of us
>allow for that possibility.

Yeah. Again, I've got my standards. I trust Intronan to make the right decisions. We usually talk about who gets the boot and why. He usually supports my decision so I don't generally feel bad about those I make.