The Carrion Fields - Viewing topic #2775

Shadowmaster	Fri 31-Oct-03 12:14 PM
Member since 18th Mar 2003 329 posts

#2775, "Thieves and pk."

Just wanted to make a few comments and suggestions to the thief class. First off, the new paths are very nice, and offer a wide range of replayability and that is nice. However, against a flying enemy like an arial, it is very difficult to somehow kill them alone. The problems arise in the fact that other then parting block, you have no way to keep them in combat. The lag on backstab is such that even on a successful backstab, most mages will just word, or if a melee class, they will run. Now, at mid-ranks this is less of a problem because as a whole the opposing characters often aren't as prepared or skilled. At hero however, the problems arise because most everyone has the sense to know when to run, and in a land as big as CF, a place to hide. I suggest putting a maledict effect on backstab. Already skills like impale, whirl, artery etc. have a negative strength and dexterity affect and yet backstab does not. This always seemed odd to me, I mean if I drive a dagger into your exposed back, while you are sleeping, you wouldn't be moving as well, let alone running as far, with your guts spilling out. I'd like to see it have a hamstring like move reduction, and some form of maledict effect similar to impale. Already backstab is limited in when and how often you can use it, so I don't see this as particularly unbalancing. Also, to my knowledge other then scrolls, thieves have no way to drop an opponents strength or dexterity on their own in a skill sense. Virtually every other melee class in the game has this ability, yet thieves do not. Oftentimes battles come down to trip locking an opponent and wearing them down, or in fighting someone and hoping to straight outdamage them. With only the one path having third attack, this doesn't happen all too often. I do know knife has some sort of bleeding effect on only sleeping enemies, but other then that I can think of no way to alter a fight's progress with a thief, during the fight. Oftentimes I found myself standing over a sleeping enemy, who was devoid of potions and inventory items, scrolled up, and then realizing there was no way I could kill them before they ran/hid somewhere. A prime example of this is any arial. To make matters worse, the number of water damage daggers is sorely limited. I've heard of one, yet every character I asked in game was unable to even point me in a direction that would be helpful. Not saying they don't exist, just that they are very rare indeed. When a significant number of hero range arials carry a hide of the ancient blue dragon, the lack of water damage daggers plays very heavily into battles against these characters. Add to this that other classes like paladin already have a means to counter a thief and their tactics, and I point out that when you log on with a hero range thief, there isn't anyone who you look on the who pk list and think "easy kill". Granted I am in no way a master pkiller, or the most seasoned explorer, but I think one of the reasons you don't see particularly active pkillers in the thief guild is their inability to really "stand alone" at hero. Granted while first traps and recently poisons have had certain "exploitable" skills that made their users a bit deadly, I notice that has decreased as these skills are tweaked. If thieves are meant to be stand alone pkers, I think it important that they have their skillsets tweaked in small ways to rectify this. If they are not stand-alone pkers, and are more of a support class, that is fine, but they then need more support skills. As it stands right now I get the sense that thieves are half-support, half stand-alone with neither of the skills that they would have were they "fully committed" to one or the other. Not a big gripe, just some of my observations. Any comments from you big boys and girls in the heavens?

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Well, I shall probably be beating a dead horse, yet i wish to tell my opinion on thieves and playerkilling. Having played almost exclusively thieves and experimenting alot with their PK ability, i have discovered a lot of points. 1) Thieves are not made for direct PK situations, except at lower ranks. In the 20s you can kill many mages with relative ease. As said before, a thief is no warrior and should not be going gung-ho against anyone. 2) As i noticed with the 'gung-ho' line, you are a thief, you can hide. Only assassins, other thieves and Duergar can spot you. That is a small majority. That is easily used to your interest, due to the 'hide' ability. I will not sound like an idiot and remind you that YOU can choose any fight, but this is a quite big factor in your PK attempt. Just catch them while they are weak. 3) Prepatation and patience. As a thief you do not possess the skills and stats of a warrior or even the affinities of an assassin. You are outclassed in many cases in a direct confrontation. However, knowing your target and his vulnerabilities, and decent timing coupled with the right preparations (preparations as 'preps') can win you a fight. It can even get you a successfull PK situation. 4) Additional resources. As a thief, and any class, you can hire a mercenary. Even if they are considered 'cheap' and unnecessary (this I got from feedback of the unofficial board archive) they are very handy, and really can mean a BIG difference. This is all depending of the thief's knowledge of the game and his creativeness. Every mercenary has its own skills. They can really be helpfull. With these (already known by the majority of users) simple points I wish to accentuate that with a thief, playerkilling is not a feat done in a direct way. A lot of patience is required. You are supposed to hit your enemy when he is weak or nearly dead. The thief class (as said before, sorry to repeat) was never made to kill in direct confrontations, just to outsmart your victims. And hit them when they least suspect it. By no means am i a VERY experienced thief player, i just wish to reply to the thread and say my (albeit unexperienced) opinion, even tho i repeat a lot of points mentioned by others on the thread. My deep excuses for that. (And yes, my four points are quite similar). -Eyegee the everlasting newbie with opinions.