What makes you think it requires 30k in XP? I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Personally I'm happy with the cost.

Shifters are not the easiest class to explore with pre-final forms. My experience has been I usually get 3-4k in Imm Xp rewards between rank 1- 42 or so. Trying to explore Thar-Acacia, Trothon, Veran, etc with a third tier form is pretty challenging. (Using those as an example.) Basically what happens is the shifter ranks to 42 realizes that he/she does not have enough edge points to re-roll and then needs to go on an exploration/commerce/observation binge. Much harder now, because you are in hero range, expected to take part in cabal stuff, etc, but you are doing it without the benefit of a final tier form to back you up.

My last three shifters ran into this problem, and I consider myself above average for game knowledge and stuff like that. Once I had a final form, it was easy to rack up some PKs, exploration, etc, and the Spin the WHeel edge when I got to rank 47 was not a problem.

It should be lowered definately.

Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man.

When I created these, we talked about the cost, and were within 20% of each other based on cost. I went with his higher number since he has worked on and costed nearly all the rest of the edges and had a better idea of where it should fit.

Roll the Bones and Spin the Wheel should not be your goal when playing a shifter (and if they are, start working on them earlier). I would expect that a small percentage of the playerbase/shapeshifters ever actually uses them, and that is how it's set up today. Even if we dropped it to where I thought it should be, it wouldn't change all that much and not something you could "just do" when you hit 42.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

Imms can correct me if I'm wrong, but this has been my observation:

#1 the earlier you explore an area with obs/explore, the more xp you get from each thing that gives it. Drawback is it's riskier. But hey, isn't that the whole concept behind obs/explore in the first place?

#2 to help mitigate the dangers, get someone with a higher level to help you.

That's really about it. By the time my shifter got to final forms, I had enough edges points from obs/explore ALONE to buy both those edges if I'd wanted to, and still have some points to spare. Instead of waiting until you GET your final forms to start raking in edge points, start sooner and you'll find it much easier to to do.

I was 99.99% sure you were wrong on this, but I verified it to be sure. A given room that gives out 200xp when you enter it was reached by one char at level 5, and another at level 20. Both got 200xp.

Similarly, a mob that gives 10xp for looking at it gave character X 10xp when that char saw it at level 27, and another character 10xp when that char saw it at level 8.

The way I came to my conclusion was from places like HToS and upper cragstone. Going through HToS below level 35, seems to give more xp than waiting until you pass, say, level 40 or higher to go through it. Likewise with upper cragstone. Going through at level 1, I think I get a little under 1k observation. But never entering upper cragstone until, say, level 30, I get very little if anything. My thinking is that there is a cap on how much xp you can gain from any given room/NPC, and the amount you actually gain goes down from there once you pass a certain level. Following this train of thought, I've made a point of doing as much exploration as possible at lower levels, and with one of my current characters, gained insight into Legendary Awareness while I was still level 23. With a past shifter I had, I didn't bother doing any exploration until I gained my final defensive form. And then going to all the same places I would normally go to rake in massive xp, I suddenly found I got very little.

For example, it hardly makes sense to explore the Kobold Caves when you're level 51, does it?

Well, given this, I'll retract my "wrong" and say that the spirit of what you are saying, Klaak, is correct - exploring early and often is a good idea.

I don't think, however, that you need to go to the trouble of having a hero-level-char tank the Arch-Bishop Magius so that you can get a glimpse of him at level 8. Just be sure to get your easy obs/explore exp when you can.