Everything outside the Realm of the Dead or an explicit OOC pray is subject to an "In Character" assessment. I don't think this is a new concept for CF. It's been that way for as long as I've been playing.

Keep in mind that, at least in this case, this treatment works for the player's benefit. Had the IMM treated the text as though it were "Out of Character" (e.g. "pray you douchebag!?!!?!") the mortal in question probably would have been denied. "In Character" treatment seems more appropriate.

>This is just my opinion, and well since I haven't played a
>tribunal in a while you probably won't care, but unless that
>log is edited, I consider what you did complete ####.

The log is not edited except for the comments...which I still find amusing, and wrong. There is however more to the log, but why bother posting that, it won't incite the masses.

>Numerous times the idea has been suggested that a think
>command be added as an rp tool, and numerous times it has been
>shot down, so one would have to assume that things which
>aren't interpreted by the game are out of character. If you
>get a Huh? then your character and the world of Thera has no
>knowledge of the fact that you typed whios instead of whois,
>but punishing someone for what was obviously an out oc
>character statement that wasn't said aloud, whispered, or in
>any way conveyed by the character to the outside world is just
>plain ####. There isn't a think command so you shouldn't be
>picking off what a character is "thinking". Again this is
>just my opinion.

It was obviously directed at me, whether it was thinking, random typing, etc, it is still directed at me and only me. How easy is it to not type it in, and just mutter it to yourself? Wow...problem solved. If we had a think command, and he thought it, I would have done the exact same thing. I booted him from Tribunal and gave him an opportunity to get back in via a mortal in Tribunal.

>I am in no way associated with the
>situation, but I do think it is VERY poor showing by you in
>particular, and the immstaff in general. If you want to see
>what our character is thinking, give us a think command, a
>social just for ourselves and anyone else who may be watching,
>otherwise punishing someone for calling you a douche bag
> which btw I don't think exist in CF) is petty and I feel a
>violation of your privlidges as immortals.

Petty? No. I don't particulary care to be called a ####ing douchebag (again obviously directed at me) when I am in a position of authority because he didn't get what he wanted. I in no way exiled him, and told him how to get back in and to learn a little respect.

I think you handled it quite well. You were both in game, and if you are able to see something snooping, it's in game. Even if you don't agree with that, he was acting like a complete child about that meeting not going just how he'd apparently planned it and got off rather light in my oppinion. One less whining moron in tribunal.

I agree that his behavior was in error, and I agree that typing in it was meant to incite the wrath of the gods, but I still feel like it was an out of character thing that, while meant to be seen, wasn't put into a channel so I find it hard to beleive that it should have been handled at all, but I guess in this case the intent (hoping it was seen) might outweigh the vague privacy violation part that bothers me.

What privacy violation? He's connected to the mud, he sent a command to the mud. You give up the privacy of your thoughts once you send them in a command to the mud, whether or not the mud recognizes the command.

I agree with that sentiment 100%.

Again, it's nicer to interpret it as IC. Interpreted OOC, I'd probably throw a deny and some siteban down, though Drunsthol is most likely nicer than I am. Simply put, there's enough work in maintaining/running CF for the players that try to respect the effort, play in the spirit of the game, and generally make things fun for us, too, that I'm just not inclined to take any amount of #### from someone who isn't.

You may be familiar with the concept of "at will" employment, wherein one's employer may terminate one's employment at any time without forewarning or even a reason. Playing CF is a lot like that, and, just as in the real world people rarely are fired for no reason at all, even though they legally can be, people rarely take it in the junk from the immortals on CF for no reason at all, even though they could be.

Any way you look at this whole situation, at best it becomes like a eight year old kid standing just off school grounds yelling and swearing at his teacher and not expecting to pay for it in class the next day. You wouldn't get away with that, and you wouldn't get away with this either.

>I agree that his behavior was in error, and I agree that
>typing in it was meant to incite the wrath of the gods, but I
>still feel like it was an out of character thing that, while
>meant to be seen, wasn't put into a channel so I find it hard
>to beleive that it should have been handled at all, but I
>guess in this case the intent (hoping it was seen) might
>outweigh the vague privacy violation part that bothers me.

So in essence he was sending an OOC personal insult to the imm, what's that, a deny rather than a uncaballed?

I personally have done something similar before (purely because i wanted to know if imms could snoop only succesful commands or not) but i find it idiotic to consider that something that you typed into the mud should be privvy only to you, especially if you are understanding of the fact that imms can and -do- snoop.

it's a fine line
between love and lust
between truth and trust
between dreams and dust
it's a mighty fine line

I mean, i thought i had seen the bad side of you?!

I said this when I first saw the log so I'll say it now. I honestly as an immortal would have never thought that was directed at me because simply....how stupid can you be to "type in!" what you are thinking?? I would have considered it so dumb that they never would have done it intentionally. So I would have logically assumed he had an AIM window or the like open and meant to say that to someone else and accidently typed it into the game prompt. Apparently this wasn't the case so it's allright, but seriously, what if you were wrong and just f*cked up a char because of your hurt ego from a misinterpreted comment?! I would hope you'd be more careful when it comes to things like this in the future

>I said this when I first saw the log so I'll say it now. I
>honestly as an immortal would have never thought that was
>directed at me because simply....how stupid can you be to
>"type in!" what you are thinking??

You've obviously never been an immortal.

>I would have considered it
>so dumb that they never would have done it intentionally. So I
>would have logically assumed he had an AIM window or the like
>open and meant to say that to someone else and accidently
>typed it into the game prompt.

This is the response I'd expect from someone who uses these tools while playing CF.

>Apparently this wasn't the case
>so it's allright, but seriously, what if you were wrong and
>just f*cked up a char because of your hurt ego from a
>misinterpreted comment?!

I never ####ed up his character. I told him to learn respect, and even told him how he could get back into Tribunal (by talking to Oblain). A stumbling block along the way, yes, but hardly ####ing him up.

>I would hope you'd be more careful
>when it comes to things like this in the future

There is a reason I only uninducted him, and didn't just deny him.

>You've obviously never been an immortal.

guess you're right

>This is the response I'd expect from someone who uses these tools while playing CF.

these "tools"? AIM is not a tool, it is something that I use quite frequently to speak to people. apparently unlike many people here I have friends outside of CF that I keep in contact with on a fairly daily basis. The fact that I am currently playing CF is not going to make me shut down every application on my computer so I can concentrate while half the time, then they'll call me and I have to fumble with a phone while trying to play.

>I never ####ed up his character. I told him to learn respect, and even told him how he could get back into Tribunal (by talking to Oblain). A stumbling block along the way, yes, but hardly ####ing him up.

yes you did. you took an ooc comment that you were not even sure if it was directed at you, and brought to an IC level (which I always thought was taboo with immortals, I on the other hand don't hold to such values but refuse to break role out of respect for your game). you then kicked him out of a cabal (which to his character and others IC would come as a complete shock as he did nothing IC to deserve such punishment. what upsets me is the double standard which has been set:

Mortal characters are scolded, and punished daily for breaking role under the reasoning of going ooc and destroying the fragile IC environment that has been set. the reasoning they go ooc much of the time is they get killed, or they decide to just be stupid and spiteful and start spouting off with, "You stupid mother ####er, you suck, you guys were perma-ing, etc...."

Now you as an immortal character saw something that had never entered the land of thera, or whathaveyoucallit, and see a comment that you interpretted as being directed as you. so you go and take strict OOC knowlege to punish him. That in IMHO is ruinning this fragile game environment that we hold so dear, and is exactly the same as the idiot who goes off spouting because he got full-looted.
It only makes it worse that you didn't know if it was directed at you or not.

I have been told time and time again that it's just a game, and the immortals let us play it for free, and I thank you for that. but please don't sit on high horses while being hypocritical. Personally I wouldn't care if you all came down from the heavens and f*cked with every char, because to me it's simply a game and it doesn't matter. But then you all go and yell at players for going ooc and scoff when they say the exact same thing!? (it's just a game.. relax)

I dunno I'm done ranting. enjoy your day

I would agree with this if the guy was a complete newbie. As it stood, the Tribunal in question knew *EXACTLY* what he was doing and *EXACTLY* the effect it would have. He knew immortals could sense what they enter into the console and he was coaxing the imm. I'm sorta amused all of you thought it was a meer accident and never considered that maybe he knew the imm would respond that way and just wanted a nice controversy log.

how could he be THAT stupid? I mean he was just trying to tick the imm off? I dunno I guess since I've never been an IMM I would never expect something of that caliber out of someone, thus giving them the benefit of the doubt. if thats really what you guys (imm's) see all the time, then sorry...and god help your sanity for the #### you deal with (like from me )

There's nothing inherently wrong with the concept of a god knowing what your character is thinking.

Luckily for us, the gods don't really know what our characters think unless we put in in our role or do something stupid like type it in when we don't want them to know. Oh. Right.

I dunno I guess since I've never been an IMM I would never expect something of that caliber out of someone, thus giving them the benefit of the doubt.

And yet, you're perfectly willing to tell one how to do his job in your post above.

Frankly, Drunsthol was being very kind. If I saw an obvious OOC jab like that, I'd probably have handled it as an OOC matter. That would end up worse than an uninduct, especially when you're told you can come back with a mortal leader's approval.

Doubly so if the player in question has a long history of throwing tantrums.

>And yet, you're perfectly willing to tell one how to do his job in your post above.

This could be comparable to the president saying, "have you ever been President? No? then don't tell me how to do my job and keep your mouth shut." It just doesn't work that way, people are allowed to have opinions if they believe they are at least justified. and I believe that within the context given my comments held water.

>Frankly, Drunsthol was being very kind. If I saw an obvious OOC jab like that, I'd probably have handled it as an OOC matter. That would end up worse than an uninduct, especially when you're told you can come back with a mortal leader's approval.

You still have not verified how you and Drunsthol could possibly tell if that was an ooc jab, or a simple typo.

>Doubly so if the player in question has a long history of throwing tantrums.

this is something that had not come to light yet. Now if you had encountered things such as this from the player in question then yes I would fully understand and agree with Drunsthols actions, and go the extra step as you have and say he was "kind" in his actions. Though I would still stand by, the taking ooc jabs and comments and introducing them into the IC Theran world via consequences would be going against the standards you and the other imms had set.

But I guess it all boils down to, it's your game, your rules, your fun. I hope some of what I've said would be taken into consideration and not simply marked as whining, or complaining. Because that was not the intent.

>You still have not verified how you and Drunsthol could possibly tell if that was an ooc jab, or a simple typo.

Ok, seriously....seriously now. If I walk up to my boss and give him the finger and tells him to #### off. What the hell would you think will happen. B..b..but I slipped and I ment that for someone else, dont you hear how sad it sounds.

If you write something like that you should be punished, thats it. An imm decides to be nice and take it easy on him, and you guys whine about it?

I'd still say deny, deny..raus! heil imms!(I guess I have to say this is a joke for you guys who will think I'm a nazi or something, sigh)

Anyway, I should not have posted as this thread is just getting worse..

To be honest, I personally don't give a #### really about any of this. but a tiny little voice (that occasionally tells me to kill people) just causes me to argue something if I don't see it fit, regardless of my apathy to the entire situation. In fact IMM's deny me right now, see if I care!

(ok please don't, I might go into withdrawal and start eating gallons of ice cream every night, while watching old Richard simmons tapes)

and I hereby declare this entire thread moot!

>>And yet, you're perfectly willing to tell one how to do his
>job in your post above.
>
>This could be comparable to the president saying, "have you
>ever been President? No? then don't tell me how to do my job
>and keep your mouth shut." It just doesn't work that way,
>people are allowed to have opinions if they believe they are
>at least justified. and I believe that within the context
>given my comments held water.

The difference being that, as a United States citizen, the president is paid out of my taxes, and thus, to some extent, my employee.

How much do you suppose this guy donated to CF over the years?

A more proper metaphor would be visiting some third world nation, as an outsider, and telling one of the local warlords how to do their job.

...Rome...