The Carrion Fields - Viewing topic #67870 - What skills are currently OP and why?

Subject: "What skills are currently OP and why?"

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TMNS	Sun 23-Apr-17 05:21 PM
Member since 10th Jun 2009 2670 posts

#67870, "What skills are currently OP and why?"

Ground Control.

Improved Flee.

And that's all I got.

Any more?

(I'm serious about ground control btw)

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Bat., Athioles, 26-Apr-17 07:21 PM, #21

Seriously?, Sertius, 26-Apr-17 10:26 PM, #22

Seriously., Athioles, 26-Apr-17 11:18 PM, #23

RE: Seriously., Isildur, 27-Apr-17 12:37 AM, #24

But, just because it's not netting kills,, Kalageadon, 27-Apr-17 04:16 AM, #26

Exactly., Athioles, 27-Apr-17 05:47 AM, #27

RE: Exactly., Isildur, 27-Apr-17 07:36 PM, #29

I think none of these were bat paladins, Kstatida, 28-Apr-17 04:09 AM, #30

RE: I think none of these were bat paladins, Isildur, 28-Apr-17 09:32 AM, #31

RE: I think none of these were bat paladins, Kstatida, 28-Apr-17 09:46 AM, #33

RE: I think none of these were bat paladins, Isildur, 28-Apr-17 11:24 AM, #34

RE: I think none of these were bat paladins, Isildur, 28-Apr-17 11:34 AM, #35

Bat is a thing pre-40, Kstatida, 28-Apr-17 12:21 PM, #37

Koidel was part of the bunch I just grabbed., Seriphax, 03-May-17 09:21 AM, #39

Zurra too N/T, Seriphax, 03-May-17 09:22 AM, #40

Salmt!, TheProphet1, 01-May-17 07:30 PM, #38

I have actually died to bat paladin after a failed assa..., Onewingedangel, 28-Apr-17 09:42 AM, #32

RE: I have actually died to bat paladin after a failed ..., Isildur, 28-Apr-17 11:35 AM, #36

If paladin is stupid enough to wait for 2 rounds, Kstatida, 27-Apr-17 12:52 PM, #28

RE: Bat., Bemused, 27-Apr-17 12:58 AM, #25

Energy drain., Kalageadon, 24-Apr-17 01:14 PM, #9

Energy Drain?, Jormyr, 24-Apr-17 04:21 PM, #13

You're right, I don't generally, Kalageadon, 24-Apr-17 04:27 PM, #15

RE: What skills are currently OP and why?, Isildur, 23-Apr-17 11:19 PM, #4

RE: What skills are currently OP and why?, Jhyrbian, 24-Apr-17 01:33 PM, #10

RE: What skills are currently OP and why?, Isildur, 24-Apr-17 03:49 PM, #11

The more tribbies, the less wanted people, Kstatida, 24-Apr-17 03:56 PM, #12

Forget., Murphy, 23-Apr-17 10:39 PM, #3

Yeah forget sucks as a shifter., TMNS, 24-Apr-17 02:11 AM, #5

Yes but shifters in general.., Shifted11 (Anonymous), 24-Apr-17 07:55 AM, #8

Personally, Onewingedangel, 23-Apr-17 05:42 PM, #1

Throw Edges, TJHuron, 23-Apr-17 07:15 PM, #2

In a two-man gank, throw + gc is ####ing brutal. NT, TMNS, 24-Apr-17 02:12 AM, #6

So is trip. n/t, Lhydia, 24-Apr-17 05:36 PM, #17

You don't kill people with trip damage. NT, TMNS, 24-Apr-17 06:51 PM, #20

It's long since fixed, Kstatida, 24-Apr-17 04:42 AM, #7

Athioles	Wed 26-Apr-17 07:21 PM
Member since 09th Jan 2011 392 posts

#67928, "Bat."
In response to Reply #0

IT's probably the most broken thing in cf at the moment.

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Sertius	Wed 26-Apr-17 10:26 PM
Member since 17th Nov 2008 360 posts

#67929, "Seriously?"
In response to Reply #21

In a game where you have a assassinate/martial trance, which are almost an assured kill with stalks, where you have emperor powers with sick gear, where you have basically unkillable provost, where you can't raid the tree if the sunwarden's there (and would be even worse if the other leaders are promoted,) where you can't raid the temple if the Flame is there (and would be even worse) and where Ishuli is canoewhacking FTW, you're complaining about bat?!

Multiple paladins tried to bat me over many chars and very often in the past half year or so when immpowerment was lifted. None have ever succeeded at killing me. It's a good skill to make someone run, maybe. Once in a very blue moon it will kill an unprepped self-lagging char of yours, but that would mostly be on you and not on bat.

Even Shaapa's current botmaster5000 is way more broken with auto-sleep, then vault-bash-bash for total command denial and without you having a single chance at doing anything.

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Athioles	Wed 26-Apr-17 11:18 PM
Member since 09th Jan 2011 392 posts

#67930, "Seriously."
In response to Reply #22

The ability to hit unblockable strikes that lag and maledict is OP and universally useful.

There's plenty of ways to avoid everything you listed. What's the anti-bat build?

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Isildur	Thu 27-Apr-17 12:37 AM
Member since 04th Mar 2003 5969 posts

#67931, "RE: Seriously."
In response to Reply #23

> What's the anti-bat build?

How about some of the other stuff he mentioned?

Assassinate, to name one. Unless you think no-trance assassin would die during failed assassination lag due to bat.

Depending on my build, as an evil, bat paladin is not that high among things I'd be worried about. That doesn't mean I'd find them easy to kill, just that other stuff figures to have a higher chance of killing me than bat paladin.

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Kalageadon	Thu 27-Apr-17 04:16 AM
Member since 23rd Oct 2003 1049 posts

#67933, "But, just because it's not netting kills,"
In response to Reply #24

Doesn't mean it's not OP. I'm not sure I'd say Bat by itself but I remember facing a Tribunal Paladin a while back as a fully ABS offense shifter and I had several levels on him but not only was he able to defend against all my attacks but he was throwing 3-5 melee attacks and bat, racking up -100+ hp recovery and mana recovery and other stats. I didn't die to him but he made me look pathetic.

Champion paladins in general are kinda on par with how STSF/trance seems to build, it doesn't have cutoff but the huge surge in defense/offense and with the ability to lag (Bat) makes it quite powerful. Even STSF by itself is really powerful borderline OP, "But" because lots of people aren't landing massive PK numbers with it, it's generally accepted as ok.

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Athioles	Thu 27-Apr-17 05:45 AM
Member since 09th Jan 2011 392 posts

#67934, "Exactly."
In response to Reply #26
Edited on Thu 27-Apr-17 05:47 AM

Champions are going to "win" most situations with just bat even if it doesn't net a kill. Retaliation makes them basically immune to their biggest threats (like kotegaeshi).

And Isildur my point is that if I know an assassin is on I can just sit on a river. There's a feasible counter for every build mentioned above. I don't know any way to counter bat except weapon breaker (assuming that retaliation doesn't stop that too). But even then with easy access to Maran powers now days it'd be easy to get a non-breakable staff or polearm too.

It really just boils down to the fact that the strikes are unblockable. It may not seem that bad because there hasn't been a proper ganking champion yet. Most of the one's have been played by Shaapa who tends to prefer solo PK or Jalim who can't make friends.

Once there's a Caldysias of Champions you'll see why it's broken.

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Isildur	Thu 27-Apr-17 07:36 PM
Member since 04th Mar 2003 5969 posts

#67940, "RE: Exactly."
In response to Reply #27

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Kstatida	Fri 28-Apr-17 04:09 AM
Member since 12th Feb 2015 2214 posts

#67941, "I think none of these were bat paladins"
In response to Reply #29

Champions - yes, but not bat paladins.

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Isildur	Fri 28-Apr-17 09:32 AM
Member since 04th Mar 2003 5969 posts

#67942, "RE: I think none of these were bat paladins"
In response to Reply #30

In other words, they had this awesome overpowered skill but failed to use it to its full capability. I guess I can see that.

Who is a bat paladin? Koidel? Zurra? Not sure they have PBFs.

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Kstatida	Fri 28-Apr-17 09:46 AM
Member since 12th Feb 2015 2214 posts

#67944, "RE: I think none of these were bat paladins"
In response to Reply #31

Koidel, Fijhadjah, Taeluin, Derleakok (I think).

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Isildur	Fri 28-Apr-17 11:24 AM
Member since 04th Mar 2003 5969 posts

#67947, "RE: I think none of these were bat paladins"
In response to Reply #33

I'll buy their PBFs if they have enough hours. Koidel's stats, however, need to be taken with a grain of salt given the player. He makes every build look OP.

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Isildur	Fri 28-Apr-17 11:34 AM
Member since 04th Mar 2003 5969 posts

#67949, "RE: I think none of these were bat paladins"
In response to Reply #33

Here are those guys hours and final rank, along with Zurra:

Koidel - 218h, lvl51
Fijhadjah - 109h, lvl40
Taeluin - 102h, lvl51
Derleakok - 94h, lvl51
Zurra - 203h, lvl41

With Fijhadjah and Zurra, at least, their stats wouldn't give us the full picture since they didn't spend any time at hero. Maybe bat only shines when you level sit at 40. The others, depending on how long they spent at hero ranks, should give a better picture.

Just bought the PBF for all five.

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Kstatida	Fri 28-Apr-17 12:21 PM
Member since 12th Feb 2015 2214 posts

#67952, "Bat is a thing pre-40"
In response to Reply #35

Hero range allows for a much larger hp pool and damredux which lets you survive the onslaught. So it becomes just powerful, not really OP (my opinion).

Marshal rally + bat still eats people alive though.

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Seriphax	Wed 03-May-17 09:21 AM
Member since 26th Feb 2017 145 posts

#68024, "Koidel was part of the bunch I just grabbed."
In response to Reply #35

I don't know if it's fully automated or no, but Koidel at least was part of the bunch I just picked up. May want to email the imms to change yours.

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Seriphax	Wed 03-May-17 09:22 AM
Member since 26th Feb 2017 145 posts

#68025, "Zurra too N/T"
In response to Reply #39

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TheProphet1	Mon 01-May-17 07:30 PM
Member since 11th Jan 2012 175 posts

#68018, "Salmt!"
In response to Reply #29

That was me... woo... and he was more of a RP character than anything else.

But the build was definitely very defensive but had limited kill-sealing capabilities. And at the same time, I'm not a good pker anyways, so even if bat were OP, I wouldn't have optimized the skill that's for sure.

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Onewingedangel	Fri 28-Apr-17 09:42 AM
Member since 22nd Jul 2009 447 posts

#67943, "I have actually died to bat paladin after a failed assa..."
In response to Reply #24

Assassin's also don't learn polearm...so yeah, that can hurt.

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Isildur	Fri 28-Apr-17 11:35 AM
Member since 04th Mar 2003 5969 posts

#67950, "RE: I have actually died to bat paladin after a failed ..."
In response to Reply #32

Do you remember what you were wielding/wearing and what preps you had up? Also, was there a vulnerability at play?

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Kstatida	Thu 27-Apr-17 12:52 PM
Member since 12th Feb 2015 2214 posts

#67937, "If paladin is stupid enough to wait for 2 rounds"
In response to Reply #23

Any disarm+lag kills him.

Otherwise you can just piss him off by looting his weapons consistently (if you survive bat spam, that is).

Bat is OP on lowlevels in that it doesn't require anything but choosing right race. All other "OP builds" require effort to build.

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Bemused	Thu 27-Apr-17 12:58 AM
Member since 15th Oct 2013 665 posts

#67932, "RE: Bat."
In response to Reply #21

I agree. Should be made to be at least 1 round. None of this two bats between rounds nonsense.

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Kalageadon	Mon 24-Apr-17 01:14 PM
Member since 23rd Oct 2003 1049 posts

#67896, "Energy drain."
In response to Reply #0

Annoyingly powerful. It removes a lot of my motivation to stay in a fight as a mage more than being deadly, except in the case of shifters as stated below. Still, being able to take away hundreds of mp each shot is just nuts, I kinda wish it was more like the way Iceball's MV drain was changed.

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Jormyr	Mon 24-Apr-17 04:21 PM
Member since 31st Dec 2014 423 posts

#67903, "Energy Drain?"
In response to Reply #9

That thing's been more or less unchanged for like 20+ years. It's super nice for certain situations, but even in a perfect world, I tended to find just taking people's hp down to 0 was more useful than the mana/mv hit.

SvS dude. SvS.

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Kalageadon	Mon 24-Apr-17 04:27 PM
Member since 23rd Oct 2003 1049 posts

#67906, "You're right, I don't generally"
In response to Reply #13

Lump it into the killing OP skills like some people will talk about (throw or ground control) but it's just enormously strong in it's own way.

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Isildur	Sun 23-Apr-17 11:19 PM
Member since 04th Mar 2003 5969 posts

#67881, "RE: What skills are currently OP and why?"
In response to Reply #0

Bloody shackles on a build designed to win in a cage match.

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Jhyrbian	Mon 24-Apr-17 01:33 PM
Member since 04th Mar 2003 919 posts

#67897, "RE: What skills are currently OP and why?"
In response to Reply #4

Sounds like Ehren Guard Vindicator is your dream build, go!

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Isildur	Mon 24-Apr-17 03:49 PM
Member since 04th Mar 2003 5969 posts

#67900, "RE: What skills are currently OP and why?"
In response to Reply #10

Problem is, there aren't enough wanted people. It's gross when you get the chance to use it, but you don't get that many opportunities.

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Kstatida	Mon 24-Apr-17 03:56 PM
Member since 12th Feb 2015 2214 posts

#67901, "The more tribbies, the less wanted people"
In response to Reply #11

I've stopped getting midlevel flags because it's so annoying and troublesome.

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TJHuron	Mon 24-Apr-17 04:24 PM
Member since 28th Nov 2007 1132 posts

#67905, "Tribs popularity is the one truly baffling aspect of Cu..."
In response to Reply #12

With such a small player base I don't see the appeal of a cabal that encourages guild sitting and waiting for something to happen.

Maybe it's the safety of it that's attractive. Can sit around and look at your set all day with little worry about getting PKd. I dunno?

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Java	Mon 24-Apr-17 05:15 PM
Member since 07th Apr 2003 1055 posts

#67907, "RE: Tribs popularity is the one truly baffling aspect o..."
In response to Reply #14

It's the fact that they have the most active imm who is always willing to provide immteraction.

Plus, sitting in an empty cabal is boring. Having other people around to BS with, roleplay, interact, argue with, etc makes things more fun than sitting there emoting at your inner.

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Isildur	Mon 24-Apr-17 05:41 PM
Member since 04th Mar 2003 5969 posts

#67909, "RE: Tribs popularity is the one truly baffling aspect o..."
In response to Reply #16

How about trying to kill people?

Seems like you're saying that Trib (certain members excluded) is the new Herald.

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Java	Mon 24-Apr-17 06:06 PM
Member since 07th Apr 2003 1055 posts

#67910, "RE: Tribs popularity is the one truly baffling aspect o..."
In response to Reply #18

I'm saying roleplay appeals to a lot of the people that play roleplaying games.

Right now, Trib provides the best opportunity for RP (through a full cabal and extremely active Imm), while still allowing for some PK. I can see why people would want to play it. And if that's what they enjoy, I'm not about to tell them they're playing the game wrong.

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Murphy	Sun 23-Apr-17 10:39 PM
Member since 30th Dec 2010 1639 posts

#67879, "Forget."
In response to Reply #0

Especially egregious against shapeshifters because once landed, you better get away and hope you have enough mana left to wait it out. Since fleeing on foot is tough against a summoner, you're likely to eat a couple energy drains along the way.

And if a mummy or wight lands sleep on a shapeshifter in form, forget practically ensures a kill.

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TMNS	Mon 24-Apr-17 02:11 AM
Member since 10th Jun 2009 2670 posts

#67884, "Yeah forget sucks as a shifter."
In response to Reply #3

I have survived Tavlin forgetting me, but not Ahtieli

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Shifted11 (Anonymous)	Mon 24-Apr-17 07:55 AM
Charter member

#67889, "Yes but shifters in general.."
In response to Reply #3

Get the shaft in many ways. They have to revert to use any inherent skills, can't use certain cabal powers without reverting, ie. insects, and are the only class that can't benefit from items that grant undispellable resists to anything, like ancient dragon hides.

But truly, Forget is horrible on shifters. Not only is it annoying to die, it's very annoying to get away and have no option but to die anyway.

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Onewingedangel	Sun 23-Apr-17 05:42 PM
Member since 22nd Jul 2009 447 posts

#67873, "Personally"
In response to Reply #0

I don't think Ground Control is really OP. It's Nage Waza plus Ground Fighter which makes it very strong.

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TJHuron	Sun 23-Apr-17 07:15 PM
Member since 28th Nov 2007 1132 posts

#67877, "Throw Edges"
In response to Reply #1

I'm on the fence about it but I am leaning toward the side that says it isn't OP too with the exception of gang fights.

It's a little OP for ganging people. They should make it so you can't throw people who aren't targeting you, like kot and kan.

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TMNS	Mon 24-Apr-17 02:12 AM
Member since 10th Jun 2009 2670 posts

#67885, "In a two-man gank, throw + gc is ####ing brutal. NT"
In response to Reply #2

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Lhydia	Mon 24-Apr-17 05:36 PM
Member since 04th Mar 2003 2391 posts

#67908, "So is trip. n/t"
In response to Reply #6

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TMNS	Mon 24-Apr-17 06:51 PM
Member since 10th Jun 2009 2670 posts

#67912, "You don't kill people with trip damage. NT"
In response to Reply #17

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Kstatida	Mon 24-Apr-17 04:42 AM
Member since 12th Feb 2015 2214 posts

#67888, "It's long since fixed"
In response to Reply #1

I don't think I've been permalagged by throw in ages.

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