http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=3&topic_id=2969&mesg_id=2969&page=

"So what we did was attempt to recalculate how many EP a character should have based on all the things that contribute and which edges had already been selected."

What I am finding is that my character has negative edge points. The reason for this is that he acquired obs/exp edge points before the nerf and spent them. Then you did the recalculation and those edge points from obs/exp were recalculated at the nerfed rate. Thus I am negative. Kinda annoying really. Do I just suck it up?

...it did seem like I had suspiciously many edges avaliable. I expected way less, knowing about the nerf.

Instead, I still got almost everything I wanted, and in fact got it earlier than I typically do. I was starting to think the nerf wasn't so bad. The recalc didn't ruin my character - I already (mostly) have what I want. What it did was merely reassure me that the nerf sucks. I'll never have another char like this.

I too have negative edge points. I know this because pre-reboot a few days ago I had two "tiers" of edges available, and now I have none (and I hit an edge point gain mark - and nada). If I send up a prayer in game, could I maybe work something out where I return an edge, just so I'm not 'in the hole' or something? or am I asking for something that would be very difficult to do, and potentially harm my pfile...I seem to remember Pfile editing is bad over time...

Anyways, I figured I'd ask. Since there is no way for me to know IC how badly I am in the "hole"

The recalculation was meant to be as close to the "old way" as possible specifically to avoid punishing characters for scenarios you are describing.

The only reason a character should have ended up with drastically fewer edge points (e.g., way negative) is if they had benefited dramatically from the bug AND spent all those erroneously rewarded edge points. This should be fairly apparent based on your characters details and edge list.

Mini-FAQ (updated as questions come in)
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Q: Is it possible my edge points were recalculated to a negative number?
A: Yes. For example if you erroneously received a bunch of edge points and spent them you may end up below zero. Earning more EPs will resolve this.

Legitimately earning pre nerf != erroneously receiving.

Edges that were purchased with erroneously awarded points were not removed, but the points were, and it's possible to end up with a negative balance.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

So edge points that were legitimately earned pre nerf are considered "erroneously awarded" points?

Erroneously awarded points surely only refers to the bug that was introduced by this change.

The bug existed over a window of time. The recalculation was done to remove its effect.

We're not saying there was an intentional exploit.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I am not explaining myself properly. My question has nothing to do with the bug.

Let's say:

1) my character had 20k explore and 30k obs pre nerf. That equates to X edge points.

2) obs/exp nerf comes in - I still have X edge points (not all spent mind you)

3) recalculation comes into play and my X edge points becomes X/2 edge points

4) Now I am on negative edge points and my guildmaster will likely never teach me anything again

Like I say; nothing to do with any bugs.

>I am not explaining myself properly. My question has nothing to do with the bug.

>Let's say:

>1) my character had 20k explore and 30k obs pre nerf. That equates to X edge points.
You still have these.
>2) obs/exp nerf comes in - I still have X edge points (not all spent mind you)
The change should have been only to newly acquired Obs/EXP
>3) recalculation comes into play and my X edge points becomes X/2 edge points
Recalculation only should have affected those points accumulated during the time when extra points were erroneously awarded.
>4) Now I am on negative edge points and my guildmaster will likely never teach me anything again.
If you are in -eps it is because you spent them on edges you really shouldn't have been able to afford. Think of it like this, you bought a nice new car with money you didn't have, the bank had made a calculating error. When the error was corrected you ended up with an overdraft. You get to keep the car, but you need to pay off the overdraft before you get to spend again.

Like I say; nothing to do with any bugs.

>>4) Now I am on negative edge points and my guildmaster will likely never teach me anything again.
If you are in -eps it is because you spent them on edges you really shouldn't have been able to afford. Think of it like this, you bought a nice new car with money you didn't have, the bank had made a calculating error. When the error was corrected you ended up with an overdraft. You get to keep the car, but you need to pay off the overdraft before you get to spend again.<

Yes, but at the same time, if your bank made those types of errors often (IE more than once), you probably wouldn't be a customer of theirs.

As much as I understand the perception that this is taking away edges that everyone felt they would be able to get, this is an error that in an absolute sense didn't "cost" players if it hadn't been made.

If the formulas had been done correctly, those people that are in the negative wouldn't have (and possibly would never have gotten) edges that they currently have. Yes, for some people it might change what they would have picked when, but you still got something.

Secondly, for whatever odd reason, I have actually noticed that a number of characters actually benefited from this correction. Typically these have been characters with few edge options. Almost everyone that got this that I've seen has a *LOT* of edges or very expensive ones picked. Of course, getting that toy taken away stings more than when you get just one new G.I. Joe figurine.

As for the CF-bank comparison....mistakes happen. Yeah, if I shelled out $60 for that XBOX game, I'd be pretty annoyed if it didn't work right, but that happens all the time even with paid games. Look how many patches come out for Windows, Call of Duty, Warcraft, etc. The surefire way to never have mistakes is that nothing changes. I think we all enjoy CF more by getting new things like goblins, shaman paths, legacies, conjurers, etc. And I think all of us know that players are amazingly adept at coming up with ways to use skills, powers, abilities, etc in ways that are entirely unforeseen or unexpected and balance turns out differently than expected.

Ultimately, though, CF is up to us as a staff and players. If you don't enjoy it, you won't play it. That's reality. I've enjoyed a number of your characters, and like seeing them around, personally. All we can do as a staff is our best, and hope our players enjoy the game as much as we do to play it and roll with any mistakes we make.

I had a full set of edge choices prior to any change and have had imm exp on a few occasions since. My obs exp was maxed out long before the change and I had only a couple of k explore exp left before the cap.

And somehow i lost all edge points that were enough for all edges. That implies that half of a couple of k explore exp was paying for all those points. It doesn't add up. I really recommend a closer look, as I can understand what you were aiming for but if feels as if something unintended is happening alongside it. Like accidentally sweeping up points earnt before the change, or something like that.

something specific for a certain character then I recommend sending an email, but I can tell you the edgepoint table looks WAY more normal now compared to the totally skewed version prior. The people who have a lot of points are exactly the types you would expect, (See edgepoint specifics) and not who were rocking out with extraordinary amounts before.

Probably on Thursday as otherwise my other half will get in a huff.

I've hit pretty much everything in specifics btw.

I suppose the best way to describe it prior to sending logs is that before the change I could choose any edge, then I got lots more points still before the change. Then the change happened and I chose one edge, got a few imm exp, a tiny amount of explore exp at which point that hit the cap too (obs was already past the cap), and now can't choose anything. I only took the last edge I did because I was certain I would be able to take another two good ones that I was holding out for but didn't yet meet criteria.

You can email me for an explanation if you like, but the short version is that everything looks to be in order with your character.