Ilrek - maran at 25? Yea, c'mon. Tat at 25 from baer? Yea, c'mon. Leader at.., Yea, c'mon.

Girls, I am too lazy to search about restriction on marans, leaders etc. But now I can easly point at #### from Imms. Weeelllcome.


I bet on Daev. His style to cheat.

oh shut the hell up and take your meds

I had 2 lowbie evils, one got pked once by him, one got steamrolled twice in a row ranking by him (Uthric, Maldaris). Dare I complain? I'd be a huge hypocrite to complain considering that I'd done the exact same thing with Humbert.

Sure, most of his enemies he can steamroll. But that does not make him a worthless character. If he meets a strong character, he still fights, just as I did with Humbert. It is just that 95% of his range were easy pickings, so too bad for the easy pickings. Just run or die. It's not fun, but if you were me with a sweet set would you stop, break role and tell the evil bastard ranking on elves that you'll spare him because it will be too easy to kill him? Mind you all my equipment was legitly earned by killing challenging, decked evil characters - I refused to use prayer beads Hiajist gave me because I knew it would be too easy, and heaven only knows what the crying on Dio's would be like. I am sure Ilrek earned all of his #### fair and square too - I know, because I fought him at level 17 with Uthric and we were quite even. He only got strong after many many PKs and slowly accumulating gear.

I get a lot of hate for doing lowbie PK, seriously. My recent Paladin Calderic got loads of complaints too (17-3 pk record on a level 24 human paladin 2h) but I never treated enemies badly, and never looted anything I didn't need. Even left the coins often just out of pity. If I (I'm not skilled, really) can do it with a PALADIN which is notoriously bad at sealing kills, you can too. And Ilrek did it with a strong class, but definitely not an unkillable class. And he ranked into the upper 40s with more bravery than most people do (they powerlevel straight from 41 to 51, the smart thing to do).

Finally to quote Daevryn: The game does not begin at 51. It begins the moment you hit 11. Sack up and fight back - two pincering fire giants with dual lightning axes will demolish him as fast as he kills an unprepped lowbie mage.

Someone as experienced as that not being willing to move outside their comfort zone really speaks volumes for their personality, a bit like someone who will never play any games on anything but easy mode, because they can't take losing, or any kind of real challenge.

Anyway, great job Ilrek. Low hanging fruit can now rest easy.

I have to disagree with you. It's not like this player hasn't produced characters who were successful at hero for hundreds of hours, so I don't see it as being a comfort zone issue at all. I don't doubt that, had the pfiles not been lost, that eventually Ilrek would have also made it to hero and been largely successful there for hundreds of hours.

I don't think he would be anywhere as pk successful at hero as he was at middle ranks because he would have to deal with evil badass chars he could not do a #### against.

>I don't think he would be anywhere as pk successful at hero
>as he was at middle ranks because he would have to deal with
>evil badass chars he could not do a #### against.

Even if true, this in no way contradicts anything I said.

though I find it hard to remember anyone who did really well at hero after being lvl sitter for as long as Ilrek was.

May be I just have problems with memory

That I've been reprimanded for level sitting (after level sitting, so it wasn't unjustified) whilst I was actually trying to rank up (so it was badly timed) but was being unable to find a group, and mob dying a few times.

That's not really consistent with the position here.

Not by me, and probably not by anyone who's currently on staff.

See: the sizeable post I wrote on consistency at some point, which probably still is in the gameplay archives somewhere.

that the fact that Ilrek came after and killed you, as Ullrik, pretty much negates any argument you could ever make that Ilrek was only interested in fighting low-hanging fruit... because Ullrik was tough. I'd generally worry a lot more about Ullrik in my PK than Ilrek.

I feel like you just can't accept that you got outplayed in that circumstance.

Decked level 44 maran dagger vs 38 swordspec zerker duergar a long way from the village is a fight I'd be all over too =P

Don't assume that I based my comment on losing that fight and some gear though. Quite a few people cleaned my clock/looted me. I'm just commenting on what I saw across the life of 2 characters, which generally was level-sitting Ilrek picking off ranking groups which he safely outmatched with skills/Maran powers, and quitting when the going got tough. I never saw lvl 44 Ilrek once I hit 48 and there was a strong Empire/Scion presence. Strange, that.

>Decked level 44 maran dagger vs 38 swordspec zerker duergar a
>long way from the village is a fight I'd be all over too =P

Eh. I don't think that fight is THAT bad for you. Certainly, you had as good of a chance of winning it as most of your fights with mages to that point.

If we're looking at the same log, I wouldn't call you a long way from the village, either.

There are criticisms of Ilrek where I would side with you; this just isn't one of them.

1) If you think I logged out to avoid PK you're insane.
2) If you think I would not have killed you if you were 48 and I was 44 you're insane.
3) You defended Jingurzaal (I forget the players name) the same guy who rolled multiple chars to talk trash to me as a lowbie.

-Here's one example sent when he was this level 22 shifter-
Phurskurr tells you 'Hi theres.' (He's level 22 here)
Phurskurr tells you 'Was wonderins, you not able gain any mores titles in guild?'
Phurskurr tells you 'Yous just sit der, sit der me sees and hears, just curious.'
Phurskurr tells you 'Thems hero evils to scaries or something? Me think it good ideas just sit an pick on easy meats,
yess.
Phurskurr tells you 'All abouts shinnies.'
Phurskurr tells you 'OH, yea, yous shinny ranks sittur who worries abouts shinnies buts gives craps less abouts light.
4) Who was your other char?

Perhaps you could now admit that I never did anything like this and you were mistaken to think I did?

Exept he sat in sweet spot too long. But well some don't see it as something bad so let it be. But I don't agree on equ. I don't know maybe in first place he earned them all fairy. What I know is what happened after I cleaned all those shines with Iarek. Few hours later I died in lost link to some outie shaman. Got to my corpse on open sea within five minutes after death. And Ilrek was there with three outlanders. And know what? Despite all outs could use a lot of those armors they all somehow ended back on Ilrek.

If the outlanders were good or neutral then that's not so surprising.

The only thing is how he appeared their even faster than me? How outs knew he was killed and it was his armors so they could even call him to loot? I hardly imagine badass maran running arounf the world and crying on shoulders of all met folks about his lost trinkets.

I disagree. At hero he would have to face some badass evils like me, Tinsalope, Frismund, Emperor and so on who would ass raped him all over the thera. And it would be a totaly different story for him.. I'm not sure he would last long because I would have made his life living hell for lvl sitting for so long

Instead of this he was lvl sitting at ranks where he did not have strong opposition with marans powers, tattoo(correct me if I'm wrong), leader position and very good hero set(not all hero marans had anywhere close set mind you).

Worst part that he was cabal leader and while his men had to deal with bad ass evils and die to them... he was sitting in safe. Which is not cool in my book.

Also I'm a bit surprised that imms who usualy do not encourage lvl sitting and as I remember I've seen in few pbfs frown upon.. just turn a blind eye in Ilrek's case.

No matter what level you sit at, including hero, as a cabal leader, there will always be people outside your range that are whipping members of your cabal while you can't do anything about it.

Yeah, there are some bad matchups at hero; I don't think that means as much to a good player as you do in terms of actually dying. (Unless it's a ridiculously large gang, in which case I'd argue that the bad matchups are somewhat immaterial.)

>No matter what level you sit at, including hero, as a
>cabal leader, there will always be people outside your range
>that are whipping members of your cabal while you can't do
>anything about it.

between I can not help because of game mechanics(I'm hero and your enemy out of my range) and I don't want to rank up and help you, because my ass will be handed back to me/I want rack up a lot easy pk/add whatever reason you have.

+ Hero char can aid lowbie a lot in terms of fighting off badass enemy by:
1. giving hero eq
2. helping to rank up away of enemy range. So either enemy won't be able fight lowbie or also will have to rank up and face two enemies.
3. handing preps
Each of these points helps a lot.

While only thing Ilrek could have aided hero fortress chars is reraid which is not all that helpful in most case and actualy can put hero Fort chars in bad situation.

>Yeah, there are some bad matchups at hero; I don't think that
>means as much to a good player as you do in terms of
>actually dying. (Unless it's a ridiculously large gang, in
>which case I'd argue that the bad matchups are somewhat
>immaterial.)

Yea but you will hardly be recognized as good pkiller if all you do during your login is running from badass enemies you can not do a #### with.

>Yea but you will hardly be recognized as good pkiller if all
>you do during your login is running from badass enemies you
>can not do a #### with.

Eh.

Ahtieli went, what, a RL year without dying?

Probably, there were a lot of characters in that year that couldn't beat Ahtieli that I'd still consider tough / good PKers.

I think you may have spent too much time playing a character much tougher than everyone else and it's distorted your viewpoint.

>
>>Yea but you will hardly be recognized as good pkiller if all
>>you do during your login is running from badass enemies you
>>can not do a #### with.
>
>Eh.
You can not deny it's true

>Ahtieli went, what, a RL year without dying?

Hard to say that's possible. Though I find funny that nobody actualy tried even after you changed anti-gang code for liches. As understood anti-gang code won't work for lich if he fights 3 people at once.. am I right?

>Probably, there were a lot of characters in that year that
>couldn't beat Ahtieli that I'd still consider tough / good
>PKers.

Sure I don't really tried to make anyone's life a living hell or just could not(like it was in Dupmasione's case). Just few people who deleted quite fast even then I don't think I really tried hard.

+ These good pkers got most credit when I was not online (Oh hell my twisted ego boosted by tough char playing)


>I think you may have spent too much time playing a character
>much tougher than everyone else and it's distorted your
>viewpoint.

I think we just speak about different things. I was commenting from perspective of weak char I'm sure was there few times.

>Hard to say that's possible. Though I find funny that nobody
>actualy tried even after you changed anti-gang code for
>liches. As understood anti-gang code won't work for lich if he
>fights 3 people at once.. am I right?

Not at all. It just blocks less attacks than it would for most people. I'd say it still has a very high chance of saving your life in a 3 on 1 fight vs., I don't know, something like three mace warriors spamming cranial.

I've been telling him that a while.

Thank you to the staff for supporting the game and especially to Baerinika for aiding me with my first good aligned character.

137 and 4 at about 280 hours (+/- 20 hours I suppose)


Regards,

Did me telling you I played a goodie have anything to do with this?

I r PWNT.

Glad to have you back.

Something tells me you wouldn't have gotten all the complaints if you'd been evil.

Which is not to say that you didn't role-play "good-aligned" properly. Just that people have a sort of double-standard.

I know I got sick of playing enemies cabals of scion and having Nakrasus retrieve all the time without ranking into my range forever.

I think the two things that got him criticised were:
- effectively absentee leader
- someone who didn't rank to hero despite being easily able to.

Neither bothered me, because I was his enemy, he never killed me, and normally I had my hands full of fort heroes anyway.

I can see, though, how it would annoy both fort (because of the first point) and enemies (because of the second). But then, if he had ranked up, he might have annoyed enemies even more by killing them at hero.

>- someone who didn't rank to hero despite being easily able
>to.

For the record, I disagree with the assumption that if you can level and don't, you're doing something wrong.

Also note (because I'm sure someone will misquote me on this in a year) that I draw a line between someone who intentionally suicides to avoid leveling, vs. someone who just doesn't get more XP than comes naturally to them.

There's two levels of this, in my mind. There's "I'm not going to rank unless its really the only thing available to me at the moment" and then there's "I just logged on hoping to kill some people, but now I realize that ranking is the only thing I can do. Guess I'll quit instead, and log back on tomorrow and hopefully have some people to kill."

The former is just expressing a preference for "anything but ranking"; the latter is sort of OOC.

I had zero interaction with Ilrek, so I have no idea which was his cup of tea. With the "double standard" comment I was more referring to the fact that he killed a lot of people. When an evil guy does that, people treat him with respect. When a good guy does that, it seems like gets called a no-RP jerk who's only concerned about PK.

>There's two levels of this, in my mind. There's "I'm not
>going to rank unless its really the only thing available to me
>at the moment" and then there's "I just logged on hoping to
>kill some people, but now I realize that ranking is the only
>thing I can do. Guess I'll quit instead, and log back on
>tomorrow and hopefully have some people to kill."

In fifteen years of playing CF, I don't think I've ever thought to myself that ranking is the only thing I can do.

YMMV.

Would he killed those peeps at hero ranks there he doesn't have such an upperhand(I've played arial dagger spec in midranks - its fargin blast) and there he don't have so many noobs to prey on I'd give him all respect I can. But all I saw from him at hero ranks was trying to gank Dzintiri with Lehi, failing miserably, loosing all the same set I saw on him being Iarek and vanishing. After that I never saw him again.

You're welcome. I think Baer's religion fairly obviously has two prominent divisions: one for those who RP well about wanting to kill evil, and one for those who just go out and do it. Ilrek was the latter, and Baer respected him tremendously for it. This isn't to say you lacked in RP, because I wouldn't tattoo anyone who couldn't RP out a solid understanding of the religion, but Baer's religion is one where you're supposed to go out and beat the hell out of evil. I had zero problems with the rate at which you leveled. I think a lot of people would be surprised to find that you only had somewhere around 250 hours or so, and most people wouldn't think it crazy to have less than 300 hours and be level 44.

Either way, you reminded me a lot of a goodie Palmer. (whom, I may add, no one ever gave #### to for being a mid level necro who didn't really want to level and tore up mid ranks). When Palmer was around and I was playing a mort in his range it'd be like...crap, I want to go level and I can't because I KNOW Palmer will find me and whip me. I loved the fact that there was a goodie version of that running around.

Were you the best cabal leader I've ever had? No, but we both knew going into it that you wouldn't be. At the time, Dup was handling pretty much everything and I wanted you to just fill out the rest. After his age death, I wanted to replace him with someone who obviously wanted to do inductions and all that but like Adekar said, Fort was pretty well lacking.

Another thing I liked about Ilrek was that you would log on, ask people what they were doing, gather them together, and go raid. You'd use CB for what it's meant for, which is to point out where the evil people were and to coordinate more killing of evil people. This really stood out to me in a cabal filled with Lehi, Alimas, and Liandriner(Spelling that wrong, sorry) who would just send pages and pages of nonsense on cb despite my attempts to get them on task. All of their talk from killing neutral mobs for gear, more gear, getting gear, talking about nonsense, and yes, even talking about "pooing their pants" when Empire would show up drove me insane to the point where I would actually turn the Fortress channel off before I lost it. So, thank you for being classy and keeping it real.

Good luck on your next. I assume you need a good dose of evil now?

Consider it crazy to have 250 hours and not be in range of most heroes.

I bet less than 10% of the playerbase have ever had a single character that went that long like that. Even my worst level sitting character didn't quite manage that much! And he had a 850 exp pen rather than a 250 one (or whatever arial gets).

None gave him #### for doing that. He had around 60-70 kills. (Though 5 more kills and he was going to hero, then CF died.)

When someone fits 190 hours into a very short period of real life time, and I've noticed you tend to play very long hours. So your 190 hours is probably 20 hours of the average character's time. Whereas Ilrek's 190 hours is probably 800 hours of average characters. So you are WAY more likely to notice the guy who is at the same level after you've deleted 3 characters than you are the guy who sat for 100+ hours at level 40 whilst you only ranked from 30-40 yourself (or whatever).

Sebeok's been largely AWOL/busy lately, so I'd be surprised if Ilrek turned out to be him. Could be I suppose, playing from a different IP, but I don't think so.

And Daevryn was muttering nasty things at me about how well I was keeping Ilrek healed when his (Daevryn's) mortal was trying to kill him. So yeah not Daev.

AFAIK not an Imm, and I actually wondered who it was. I thought maybe it was Unalethekai, based on IP addresses, but he was not nearly the PKer that Ilrek was when he played Una, and Padwei was pretty sure it wasn't him either.

So yeah, no idea. Back to poker for you, sir.

Maybe Tanith v2.

Not an imm as far as I know.

On your reply you know the person behind the char Maybe you or maybe the past imm However You are the last person that we can trust. Since you rejected the fact that you were Cadbru

Then aren't you just wasting everyone's time asking a question to which you aren't going to believe the answer?

I have no idea who played Ilrek.

You could be lying, but I'll buy it.

That kind of overly conservative, prep/gear whoring level sitter type usually does well in Fort under Baer.

That's not a slight, just an observation. Perhaps its the overcompensation for all the lousy PKers that end up in Fort (myself included).

That said, making (and leaving) him leader with his obvious disinterest in performing his duties over PKing and his usual and declining play times was a massive fail on Team Fort Imms part. He might have been a bad ass, but he was a deadbeat too.

>That said, making (and leaving) him leader with his obvious
>disinterest in performing his duties over PKing and his usual
>and declining play times was a massive fail on Team Fort Imms
>part. He might have been a bad ass, but he was a deadbeat
>too.

Well, I'll half disagree with you there.

He was a deadbeat, but I don't think there were any other decent options at the time he was made a leader.

Probably he should have been replaced at some point, but then, I couldn't even say by who. I would have voted for Ardryl (I'm sure I'm misspelling that and I'm too lazy to look it up), but then, he ended up Captain. It was kind of a ####ty time for quality Maran overall.

I'd agree that Ilrek wasn't ideal as a leader, he was the best choice at the time when there were no other Maran leaders. During the entire time he was leader, there was pretty much nobody that I thought was even good enough to be Maran let alone leader (besides Ardryll, who was made leader and a few others that were showing a lot of potential just before the 5th age).

Ilrek was pretty good about letting Team Fort Imms know when he wasn't going to be around for extended periods of time and I really don't think many people struggled to get inducted to Fort. Seeing as how there wasn't really anyone else that we thought was fit to be leader, original poster think the cabal would have been better served by having no leader?

I won't assert that the cabal would somehow have benefited more from having no leaders versus a deadbeat leader.

I guess if you don't have anyone you're even willing to Maran, then things worked out the best they could. I do think giving newer players a shot at leadership roles is a good (and uncommon) thing, however.

Perhaps I just wrongly assumed that since he was the leader, it was implied the people with the authority to make that the case felt he was totally deserving of it. Maybe having a Fort char during that time would have made it more clear (to me) that it was a deadbeat dad or no dad, even though the result was probably the same.

Either way, it sounds like he took more responsibility as a player than I gave him credit for, so Kudos.

I take slight offense to this comment: there was pretty much nobody that I thought was even good enough to be Maran

Ilrek showed in the very early mornings. He didn't have any meaningful position in the Fortress other than log on, gather preps, look for the one or two targets that just happened to be logged in at the off-peak hours, then log off when there wasn't anything to do.

He made zero effort to show he was anything but a level sitter trying to rack up kills and hoard a leadership position.

>Ilrek showed in the very early mornings. He didn't have any
>meaningful position in the Fortress other than log on, gather
>preps, look for the one or two targets that just happened to
>be logged in at the off-peak hours, then log off when there
>wasn't anything to do.

Those weren't the only hours he played, or I'd have never seen him.

>He made zero effort to show he was anything but a level sitter
>trying to rack up kills and hoard a leadership position.

Let's break this down:

Level sitter: we've got distention; if it's not kicking in, I don't care. Besides, Fortress is traditionally the king of all cabals for having everyone power to hero and then realize they can't ever raid an enemy cabal in any meaningful way because there's usually at least one sub-hero in Empire or Scion that they can't do #### about. It's not the end of the world if someone doesn't do that and probably is likely to make life more interesting for you.

Rack up kills: Well, yeah. Maran are supposed to kill evil.

Hoard a leadership position: You can't hoard something that no one else qualifies for.

Ilrek isn't my favorite character either, but I think your reasons for disliking him are silly.

It's normally scion that lacks lowbies. Only recently have I seen a significant number, and in the days of Nakrasus who was at sub hero level for ages.

Fortress people hero damn fast, but they seem to have lowbies coming in on a regular basis.

As Dupmasione, when I had 5 hero scion and 2 orcs in range who had just taken the Orb, and a "lowbie" (level 35) storm warrior in Fort who should've just steamrolled the Nightwalker, I...

... Had to explain how to get to the Chasm.

... And wait for her to get a sword.

Compare that to Nakrasus and/or most any "lowbie" scion you happen to see, and you'll see why Ilrek sitting at 40th made me a happy happy paladin.

All I know is even in that situation Dupmasione could still roll up on the nightwalker and usually managed to retreive. Or got away and wore it down and inevitably retrieved. Ilrek probably could have too even at hero. Or the two of you combined if you were together, would have been tough for people to face.

Hero doesn't mean skilled, nor does being in scion at any rate. Scion lowbies were often made tougher by the scion heroes that just left good things for them to use, or got them for you. Some of them are damn tough and skilled players, but some scions were like me, can't pk for crap.

When Dup takes the time to teach a new player how and where to do things, that player probably becomes a bit more useful to the fort. We can't all have Twist's skills, or knowledge. Learning basics even takes time. When skilled players level sit for pk reasons, it does little accept annoy other players from what I can see.

I'd rather be 0-60 and have people enjoying interacting with my character then level sitting and being 130-4 and generally have everyone bitching about me cause I'm a pk monkey. Guess I just never understood the fascination with pk statistics as it does suit my playstyle, and if I roll another some day, though I doubt I will anytime soon, it's herald time. I don't care how many pk's you have, that alone will never make a character worth two cents if there is nothing more to that character.

as a Squire, not knowing how to navigate to Empire/Scion was a bit mindboggling for me. That person and I did manage to retrieve, yes. And that person learned something. So that's good.

My comment is more along the lines of you probably aren't going to get into Scion if you can't find Fort, Battle, Outlander, or Empire to retrieve.

That squire was inducted while I was still a squire, FWIW. Once I was Captain, one of my standard questions was whether the applicant knew how to get to the enemy cabals.

I can't remember which cabal I was in at the time, but I do remember having to ask for directions to scion to join in a raid in the distant past.

Why maranate someone who was basically the king of picking low hanging fruit?

Eh. If you're evil-PK-successful, can RP (this part I didn't really see but other people have vouched for and I don't have any reason to doubt), and mostly aren't a douchebag, you tend to end up Maran sooner or later.

Probably Ilrek killed a lot of people who weren't much of a fight for him, but he didn't really back off fighting people who were either. There just weren't a lot of the latter.

And I admit that I may be wrong about this, so if so, just say...

I got the distinct impression that you had dropped link next to a limited prep in order to be first to it after a reboot, but were not even on before the reboot.

i.e. It looked as if either you were on with another character, and when the mud rebooted, came back as Kozakura who had dropped link next to said prep, or someone told you the mud was rebooting and you did the same.

If you were on before the reboot, then I stand corrected.

As I wrote and you glossed over, there were some people that I thought were definitely on the right track before I left for Holidays Break/Pfile Wipe, but before that I can't really think of any Squires with significant hours that didn't suffer from bad rp, low evil pks, or ####ty attitudes.

You can't hoard a leadership position if there is nobody else that is remotely deserving of it.

Ilrek claimed leader before dupmasione was even created i am pretty sure. He is not referring to the Ardryll-Kozakura-Varanjur-Elphania generation.
He did say there were alot of up and coming potential players.

Not true, dupmasione was captain under Ilrek for a while, not long before his age-death. And trust me, I played a fortie along with Dupmasione, They've both been in as long as I had that character.

He speaks the truth. I remember being amazed when Arrna kicked it and Dupmasione didn't get Marshall. When Lorn told me it was Ilrek I said "who?" and then told everyone on the Nexus cabalchannel, all of which replied.... "who?"

It seemed like Dup led that cabal anyway so I guess it's moot but it was a head scratcher for sure.

That's the fault of two things.

The absurd interviews required to get into a weak cabal.

The reluctance of said cabals Imms to promote to maran.

As an aside for me, I can't recall meeting a Fortress member I wanted to be around for more than one ranking session. Mostly because I don't think most of our players undestand what being a good person really means.

He walked in and attacked me with a missed trip, and I lost 600 hp in a round at level 37 or something.

Didn't die to him, but I did flee thinking "holy cow!".