I could see you were struggling.,
Einoh,
07-Aug-19 04:10 PM, #1
It's a lot cooler..,
Lhydia,
07-Aug-19 05:50 PM, #2
Or,
incognito,
08-Aug-19 11:12 AM, #3
Okay.,
Lhydia,
08-Aug-19 12:55 PM, #5
RE: Okay.,
incognito,
08-Aug-19 02:03 PM, #7
No I meant in general. ,
Lhydia,
08-Aug-19 02:13 PM, #9
Not sure what you are on about,
incognito,
08-Aug-19 02:36 PM, #10
Point of privilege.. ,
Lhydia,
08-Aug-19 02:46 PM, #11
RE: Or,
Jhyrbian,
08-Aug-19 01:10 PM, #6
RE: Or,
incognito,
08-Aug-19 02:05 PM, #8
Avengers are a bit weak without Temperance,
Humbert,
09-Aug-19 05:40 AM, #12
I'd sooner see a partial bash counter on the build,
incognito,
09-Aug-19 11:02 AM, #13
So you’re saying temperance...,
Lhydia,
09-Aug-19 02:32 PM, #14
Your logic is poor, as is your reading comprehension,
incognito,
09-Aug-19 02:58 PM, #15
Let's move this along.,
Daphedee,
09-Aug-19 05:36 PM, #16
I was actually digging the religion, even if I may have...,
Habbs,
08-Aug-19 12:42 PM, #4
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incognito | Thu 08-Aug-19 11:12 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
4495 posts
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#137174, "Or"
In response to Reply #2
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People could consider virtues to be discretionary bonuses, not some part of a structured build.
If someone hinted to me what virtue they should get, I'd probably give them something different because of the sense of entitlement.
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incognito | Thu 08-Aug-19 02:03 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
4495 posts
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#137178, "RE: Okay."
In response to Reply #5
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I'm not playing an ap. I did die to the ap though after trying to force a fought in a locked room and then losing link without him being able to tell.
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incognito | Thu 08-Aug-19 02:34 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
4495 posts
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#137181, "Not sure what you are on about"
In response to Reply #9
Edited on Thu 08-Aug-19 02:36 PM
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Especially since I am playing a paladin. With a transformational virtue.
And it is on the interests of balance that I don't think people should pick their virtues. Which is why I didn't moan when given hope the time I followed Baer. It's plenty good enough even as a single virtue.
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Jhyrbian | Thu 08-Aug-19 01:10 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
917 posts
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#137177, "RE: Or"
In response to Reply #3
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people could if they were stupid.. but since they're not little bonuses but actual class defining subsets it's way more important. Glad you're not an imm, you seem like a contrary chode.
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incognito | Thu 08-Aug-19 02:05 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
4495 posts
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#137179, "RE: Or"
In response to Reply #6
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I know what virtues are.
It's precisely because they are so good that people shouldn't be able to pick them.
Temperance, for example, is completely transforming. As is fortitude. Put them together on some paladin builds and it just gets silly. You have an uber tank whose offense isn't inhibited.
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Humbert | Fri 09-Aug-19 05:40 AM |
Member since 13th Jun 2009
179 posts
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#137183, "Avengers are a bit weak without Temperance"
In response to Reply #8
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I've had one Avenger whose IMM forgot to give her virtues, and one with Faith/Fort. Both got multi-killed with little effort by bashers.
Fort was good, but without Temp for bash protection an elf Avenger is toast. I could see storm giant being okay, but storm giants are hard to play as paladins due to low mana.
Maybe we should be able to pick 1 virtue, and have one other picked for us? Then we could at least ensure it's possible to play Avenger without being any competent basher's favourite low-hanging fruit.
Alternatively just buff Avengers: maybe a bash lag reduction skill plus one lagging initiation skill (e.g. if sword, reduces bash lag, if mace, has a lagging initiation skill).
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incognito | Fri 09-Aug-19 11:02 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
4495 posts
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#137184, "I'd sooner see a partial bash counter on the build"
In response to Reply #12
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Than making temperance pick at will. But I agree with your assessment about two handed and bash.
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incognito | Fri 09-Aug-19 02:58 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
4495 posts
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#137186, "Your logic is poor, as is your reading comprehension"
In response to Reply #14
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I said that a partial bash counter would balance out the build, not multiple redundancies of bash counter (champs stand, improved parry, divine insight, counter strike for opener). Oh, plus warning of evils incoming so you can use preps too to help.
Temperance makes it silly. It is going from one extreme to the other.
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Daphedee | Fri 09-Aug-19 05:36 PM |
Member since 31st Aug 2017
60 posts
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#137187, "Let's move this along."
In response to Reply #15
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I'm sure there's another venue (gameplay, discord) where this conversation can be continued.
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Habbs | Thu 08-Aug-19 12:42 PM |
Member since 06th Mar 2008
200 posts
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#137175, "I was actually digging the religion, even if I may have..."
In response to Reply #1
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I had had my three talks and was going to come back, wanted to try to see if I could just stick it out to hero and see if I could get the virtue later. Hard part was when I figured out my levels were too low vs the shamans in range for divine intervention to work well, and then I was back in the chase of needing to hero to use it, but needing kills to maran, and not being sure if I could so it once I heroed.
I really appreciate the feedback about how I was RPing it. I was _trying_ to do what you say, but I had always associated Fortitude with being able to stand up against physical challenges, and was trying to make a role and RP around that, and thought Faith would be more in tune with the struggle of the morality and religion, or maybe temperance if it delved into the whole coming out stronger for it all. I actually did want faith, or maybe charity if I could have done well enough for a second virtue, but wanted it near to hero since I needed the mana and/or closed gap on pk level range for them to really work.
I will definitely take that into account and try to figure out how to do that next time I try an avenger. Googling a definition for the virtue words doesn't help much to be sure we are on the same page, and there isn't a helpfile that really defines it like spheres has.
Here has been my thoughts, while I have them in mind: Fortitude - All about physical attributes, health, and combat skills...roleplay being strong enough to overcome Temperance - All about experiencing hardship and coming out stronger for it Faith - All about believing things will happen for the best even when things are against you Charity - all about caring for others Hope - All about inspiring others Retribution - All about killing evil no matter what...and this was the one I was afraid of RPing too much like and not wanting, storm giants can't really work with this one until hero even more I think.
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