Tue Aug 6 12:20:29 2019

At 8 o'clock PM, Day of the Moon, 21st of the Month of the Dark Shades
on the Theran calendar Rhion perished, never to return.

Race:	storm
Class:	paladin
Level:	34
Alignment:	Good
Ethos:	Orderly
Cabal:	FORTRESS, the Fortress of Light
Age:	176
Hours:	67

With the demands of the religion, and your pray stating you could not survive without the Fortitude virtue, this doesn't come as much of a surprise.

When I was giving you a virtue, I did not see any RP around fortitude for me to consider giving it to you. An example how you might would have been to deal with the crippling aspects of morality directly, having the 'fortitude' to deal with the inconvenience that comes with it. That's not a knock on you, just something I was thinking about when interacting with you, and I really did like interacting with you.

GLWYN

..when you guys ask for your followers input about virtues. Some of you do, some of you don't. A #### virtue will pretty much ruin plans for a character pretty quickly. You could just ask easily RP'd with him in a non-OOC manner to get around to what he was hoping for then discuss it, the same way you were asking for him to RP 'fortitude' if that is what he wanted.

People could consider virtues to be discretionary bonuses, not some part of a structured build.

If someone hinted to me what virtue they should get, I'd probably give them something different because of the sense of entitlement.

Don’t hate on others just because your only virtue is the unlimited 4g friends and family plan.

You are the anti-paladin.

I'm not playing an ap. I did die to the ap though after trying to force a fought in a locked room and then losing link without him being able to tell.

Jhyrb had it right. It is great you're just choosing to put in your bad ideas from the sideline rather than being at the helm in any sort of game/fun balance capacity.

Huge chip on your shoulder towards this game.

Especially since I am playing a paladin. With a transformational virtue.

And it is on the interests of balance that I don't think people should pick their virtues. Which is why I didn't moan when given hope the time I followed Baer. It's plenty good enough even as a single virtue.

Daurwyn is virtue signalling and there are way too many white people making posts in this thread.

people could if they were stupid.. but since they're not little bonuses but actual class defining subsets it's way more important. Glad you're not an imm, you seem like a contrary chode.

I know what virtues are.

It's precisely because they are so good that people shouldn't be able to pick them.

Temperance, for example, is completely transforming. As is fortitude. Put them together on some paladin builds and it just gets silly. You have an uber tank whose offense isn't inhibited.

I've had one Avenger whose IMM forgot to give her virtues, and one with Faith/Fort. Both got multi-killed with little effort by bashers.

Fort was good, but without Temp for bash protection an elf Avenger is toast. I could see storm giant being okay, but storm giants are hard to play as paladins due to low mana.

Maybe we should be able to pick 1 virtue, and have one other picked for us? Then we could at least ensure it's possible to play Avenger without being any competent basher's favourite low-hanging fruit.

Alternatively just buff Avengers: maybe a bash lag reduction skill plus one lagging initiation skill (e.g. if sword, reduces bash lag, if mace, has a lagging initiation skill).

Than making temperance pick at will. But I agree with your assessment about two handed and bash.

..would balance out a weak build. Glad we agree.

I said that a partial bash counter would balance out the build, not multiple redundancies of bash counter (champs stand, improved parry, divine insight, counter strike for opener). Oh, plus warning of evils incoming so you can use preps too to help.

Temperance makes it silly. It is going from one extreme to the other.

I'm sure there's another venue (gameplay, discord) where this conversation can be continued.

I had had my three talks and was going to come back, wanted to try to see if I could just stick it out to hero and see if I could get the virtue later. Hard part was when I figured out my levels were too low vs the shamans in range for divine intervention to work well, and then I was back in the chase of needing to hero to use it, but needing kills to maran, and not being sure if I could so it once I heroed.

I really appreciate the feedback about how I was RPing it. I was _trying_ to do what you say, but I had always associated Fortitude with being able to stand up against physical challenges, and was trying to make a role and RP around that, and thought Faith would be more in tune with the struggle of the morality and religion, or maybe temperance if it delved into the whole coming out stronger for it all. I actually did want faith, or maybe charity if I could have done well enough for a second virtue, but wanted it near to hero since I needed the mana and/or closed gap on pk level range for them to really work.

I will definitely take that into account and try to figure out how to do that next time I try an avenger. Googling a definition for the virtue words doesn't help much to be sure we are on the same page, and there isn't a helpfile that really defines it like spheres has.


Here has been my thoughts, while I have them in mind:
Fortitude - All about physical attributes, health, and combat skills...roleplay being strong enough to overcome
Temperance - All about experiencing hardship and coming out stronger for it
Faith - All about believing things will happen for the best even when things are against you
Charity - all about caring for others
Hope - All about inspiring others
Retribution - All about killing evil no matter what...and this was the one I was afraid of RPing too much like and not wanting, storm giants can't really work with this one until hero even more I think.