We've changed the way rolling works so that you roll numbers much closer to max rollable. This should drastically decrease the time it takes to roll a desired character.

We did this for two main reasons.

1. One of the complaints we've heard from our veterans is that it's harder to play CF with less hours to devote per week to it. This should help out by letting you get right into a new character.

2. New players trying to learn the ropes won't be so easily handicapped by picking a poor stat roll before they even get started.


This does mean that the definition of 'max rollable' has now changed. You can no longer roll such that every stat is the maximum you can roll it, all in one roll, no matter how long you spend trying. I know there are some knee-jerk nostalgic groans at this, but just remember that this effects everyone the same and that now combat advantages have to be earned in the game and not on the rolling screen through watching numbers scroll.


Other pieces of news...

Equipment now affects your stats in a true, 1 for 1, mode. Wearing a crown that gives you +1 wis truly gives you benefits of having 1 point higher wisdom (if allowed by your racial maximum.)

Your charisma is chosen for you during character creation (bards and conjurers need not fret.) It will not appear to you as you roll stats.

You may train charisma to your racial maximum the same way you may train all other stats.


All the hard stuff was done by Valg and Drok!

This has cut down tremendously on my time staring at the screen while thousands of numbers scroll across it! Thanks a million!

It's nice that I don't immediately concede a disadvantage to those that roll until they get perfect stats, as getting perfect stats required patience but no skill.

I think the biggest advantage is that your gear counts when you rank. I'd gladly trade "2 points from perfect" for that.

Verdict is in! Definatly two thumbs WAY up!

First of all, just wanted to say awesome change! When I (finally) heard about it, I even rolled a char for the first time in ages just to see what it was like. I just have one minor cosmetic request, perhaps add a \n after the bit so we can get each roll on a newline.

Cheerio,
The Ghost of Rom.

P.S: Nep, if your reading this, quick question: How long ago since someone made it to el Chronomancer?

Good change.

Sounds good!
Thanks

Thanks for this change, it's definately a benefit to the funstick.

I wouldn't normally post to thank (I should, but don't), but I felt like the Imms might want to hear from another vet that these changes are definately cool.

So, uh, thanks again for all the hard work you guys put in and all the changes that bring about a fairer and therefore more entertaining gaming experience for all.

-Exit

Shifted shifters/druids will level with their permanent humanoid-form stats. This may mean you want to revert still to take advantage of stat gear.

I was fearful of unstoppable armies of super-genius armadillos using the better of each stat and too lazy at the time to make it so that you got your adjusted human stats while shifted, so there's where you're at right now. I'm not really interested in arguing how it should be, but I thought y'all would like to know.

The only thing I don't get is how this would help vets save much time. If you want to help vets save time I'd suggest the following:

A) Fix shops so if I buy something for a lot of money in Galadon/elsewhere that is an armor item at rank 35, its actually something I'd want to wear, at rank 35. The items are too high level for their stats, stuff I wouldn't wear at rank 15 I have to wait til 25 to buy and then it costs an arm and a leg. Less time regearing = more fun. As an example, if the white worm would be hard but doable to kill at 30, then at 35 I should be able to buy the equivalent of his armor. For most unlimited stuff it seems like it should follow this pattern, IE, can get earlier with group fighting but if its unlimited you should be able to buy something similiar to it at the point where all buying does is get you out of having to walk there. Not an unfair trade to spend say 20 gold on armor to avoid the walk.

B) Stop throwing around the nerfing stuff. Nerfing treasures, nerfing Frigid with the aggro wolf, nerfing High Tower (they're fine except for the log on Dio's illustrating that the golem is immune_versus_steal, I mean seriously its not spirit breaker). That's the stuff that pisses veterans off, when it feels like you explore to find stuff only to find yourself praying no Imm sees you lest it gets changed for being too overpowered. Like the guy said, not everything should have to be a 20 minute puzzle.

I'm torn on whether or not I dislike not being able to roll max rollable. I do think it tends to screw over races that already had to dump 4-5 trains into maxing stats, but whatever, I don't care much about that, that doesn't affect gameplay as much as the other stuff.

I'm one, and I think these changes are good. Just on a side note as well, if you're going to criticize at least stay on the topic at hand, and not whatever is currently bothering you the most. I think these changes will be beneficial especially for clueless newbs. So what if you can't roll max stats anymore, I haven't rolled a max character in years and it hasn't affected anything. The only thing I'm curious about is the not seeing charisma, but I'm going to try it before I pass judgement on my opinion.

For the curious, the two classes that really use charisma (bards and conjurers) get a (high) fixed value assigned after stats are chosen. It's always the same for a particular race/class choice, so you don't have to "roll" more than one newbie to get some kind of optimal result.

Also, you get an echo telling you what that starting value is, so you can make decisions about training or equipping yourself accordingly. (Your racial maximum is still available in your race's helpfile.)

For other classes, it's slightly variable (fixed value +/- 1). We wanted a little variation without increasing the total average number of rolls required to get an optimum result (currently 25).

It's not visible for these classes, so initially you'll only have the "word" description. Given that charisma doesn't do much for those other classes, we wanted to de-emphasize it.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Let's keep the Announcement forum for Announcements and clarifications, please. Ask an Immortal, Gameplay, etc. are better for this type of discussion.

>The only thing I don't get is how this would help vets save
>much time.


Let me see if I can help. We'll take human thieves for an example. The max rollable on the first five stats was:

18 18 17 19 20

Since 13 was the lowest number, there were 10,080 possible number combinations. Of these, only one was 'max rolled' and many veterans felt they needed to roll for this perfect set to give them an edge in the game. If the veterans were comfortable with anything 2 points off from max or better, there were 21 possibilities. Now, when you roll a human thief, you will only see the 15 options that make up all the options that are max rollable -2. So, instead of 10,080 possible choices, you will see 15. This allows you to quickly choose your stats without having to wade through 10,000 unacceptable choices. This makes the process take less time.

I know that was patronizing, but I don't get how you couldn't get how this would help vets save much time.




> If you want to help vets save time I'd suggest the
>following:
>
>A) Fix shops so if I buy something for a lot of money in
>Galadon/elsewhere that is an armor item at rank 35, its
>actually something I'd want to wear, at rank 35. The items are
>too high level for their stats, stuff I wouldn't wear at rank
>15 I have to wait til 25 to buy and then it costs an arm and a
>leg. Less time regearing = more fun. As an example, if the
>white worm would be hard but doable to kill at 30, then at 35
>I should be able to buy the equivalent of his armor. For most
>unlimited stuff it seems like it should follow this pattern,
>IE, can get earlier with group fighting but if its unlimited
>you should be able to buy something similiar to it at the
>point where all buying does is get you out of having to walk
>there. Not an unfair trade to spend say 20 gold on armor to
>avoid the walk.

This has nothing to do with changing the way rolling a character works.


>B) Stop throwing around the nerfing stuff. Nerfing treasures,
>nerfing Frigid with the aggro wolf, nerfing High Tower
> they're fine except for the log on Dio's illustrating that
>the golem is immune_versus_steal, I mean seriously its not
>spirit breaker). That's the stuff that pisses veterans off,
>when it feels like you explore to find stuff only to find
>yourself praying no Imm sees you lest it gets changed for
>being too overpowered. Like the guy said, not everything
>should have to be a 20 minute puzzle.

This has nothing to do with changing the way rolling a character works. See Pico's note below if you want to discuss it on another forum.


>I'm torn on whether or not I dislike not being able to roll
>max rollable. I do think it tends to screw over races that
>already had to dump 4-5 trains into maxing stats, but
>whatever, I don't care much about that, that doesn't affect
>gameplay as much as the other stuff.

Remember that gear is now easier to use to compensate for lower stats. Also, it certainly wasn't designed to affect gameplay. It was done for the two reasons stated above. I also began to really dislike a system where you were trading hours of watching numbers scroll across a screen for an in game advantage. I want advantages to be earned while playing.

I know that was patronizing, but I don't get how you couldn't get how this would help vets save much time.


-Because I know exactly two people who hand-roll. Most use scripts/rollers and aren't even paying attention during the process. That is what I meant. All vets are going to see, (not me, I couldn't care, but some do) is that now you have lower stats. So in their eyes, it's a tone-down. But whatever, like I said, stat rolling isn't much of an issue to me.

Because I know exactly two people who hand-roll. Most use scripts/rollers and aren't even paying attention during the process. That is what I meant. All vets are going to see, (not me, I couldn't care, but some do) is that now you have lower stats. So in their eyes, it's a tone-down. But whatever, like I said, stat rolling isn't much of an issue to me.

In the future, if something's not an issue to you, and you think it's an issue for other people, let them post. It might not be a big issue to anyone, or you might misinterpret what does bother them.

The ability to get full benefit from +stat gear, notably the ability to keep ranking while down a little CON without kissing hp goodbye, is a huge perk. As is the ability to train charisma (for certain classes).

The rolling change does narrow the gap between newer players and veterans. Now all three groups start on even ability score footing after about a minute. Having extra software or free time doesn't enter into the equation. Any time you level the playing field like that, someone has to gain less than someone else.

Any further discussion (double-especially off-topic threadjacking about shopping) should be directed to Gameplay.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

>-Because I know exactly two people who hand-roll. Most use
>scripts/rollers and aren't even paying attention during the
>process. That is what I meant. All vets are going to see, (not
>me, I couldn't care, but some do) is that now you have lower
>stats. So in their eyes, it's a tone-down. But whatever, like
>I said, stat rolling isn't much of an issue to me.

It's numerically less during the rolling process, but you can
*easily* get better gains faster and sustain them throughout
the life of the character if you're a vet. Remember, at level
we use the better of your natural or adjusted stats now.

If you were willing to take max -2 before, now you can just
accept the first roll every time on every character combo.
Or you can roll longer and try to put the -2 into a specific
stat. But if you're a vet, I'd wager that you can not only
clear that gap, but you could max out your adjusted stats
(and have them count now) almost immediately.

You'll also find the newbies around you aren't rolling for
max -15 anymore (groan), so if you decide to play a mage
you'll be able to rely on a newbie to tank more often.

I hand roll.

I still think "I can play RIGHT NOW" is more fun even for vets than "Ok, let me set up this roller and wait 5 hours."