|
Zulghinlour | Fri 02-Jan-09 02:46 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
| |
|
#1676, "Mini Thief Revamp is complete"
|
Summary of changes - Thief points are now visible, and can be spent using the STUDY command at your guildmaster - You get 2 thief points per level from 1 to 41, at 42 you get 18 points giving you a total of 100 - Many of the paths have been shortened, and skills pulled from the paths into a general skill pool --- Skills in the general pool have a level & thief point requirement --- Skills in the other paths have a prerequisite skill, level & thief points requirement - Thieves cant added as a skill for all thieves - Scrolls has been added to the mystic path - Thief guildmasters get a small bonus (City Ties, Shopkeeper Favors, Guild Protection) - New channel added which allows thieves to speak with members of their guild (GC) - 18 new skills added and sprinkled into the various paths
Help files to read THIEF PATHS STUDY 'GENERAL THIEF SKILLS' 'BINDER PATH' 'PICKPOCKET PATH' 'POISONER PATH' 'TRAPPER PATH' 'THUG PATH' 'MYSTIC PATH' 'LOCKSMITH PATH' 'GUILD CHANNEL' So long, and thanks for all the fish!
|
|
|
|
envenom question. txt,
Isildur,
16-Jan-09 12:13 AM, #45
help envenom,
Zulghinlour,
16-Jan-09 12:13 AM, #46
maybe change the "You are able to study this now" messa...,
Klaak,
10-Jan-09 01:42 PM, #42
RE: maybe change the,
Zulghinlour,
10-Jan-09 01:43 PM, #43
No help file for GRENADE MISSILE...,
Klaak,
06-Jan-09 12:27 PM, #41
Grenade missile has always had that name when you level...,
Scrimbul,
12-Jan-09 03:26 PM, #44
Lore of the Ages and Arcane Vision,
Klaak,
06-Jan-09 12:27 PM, #40
Still no helpfile for cutpurse? n/t,
BaronMySoul (Anonymous),
05-Jan-09 06:55 PM, #39
RE: Mini Thief Revamp is complete,
Xanthrailles,
05-Jan-09 07:25 AM, #34
General Path now. (N/T),
Straklaw,
05-Jan-09 10:13 AM, #36
Its a general skill that everyones able to take now. n/...,
Lhydia,
05-Jan-09 10:13 AM, #37
Pretty sure it is a general thief skills now..,
Elerosse,
05-Jan-09 10:13 AM, #38
Scroll Use.,
crackednotbroke,
03-Jan-09 06:15 PM, #30
RE: Scroll Use.,
Zulghinlour,
03-Jan-09 06:16 PM, #32
Thieves Cant,
BaronMySoul (Anonymous),
03-Jan-09 06:15 PM, #29
Workin on it (n/t),
Zulghinlour,
03-Jan-09 06:16 PM, #33
Lockpick Path,
BaronMySoul (Anonymous),
03-Jan-09 01:12 PM, #26
Nope (n/t),
Zulghinlour,
03-Jan-09 01:13 PM, #27
Envenom doesn't seem to be working,
Klaak,
02-Jan-09 05:14 PM, #22
Working fine for me...,
Zulghinlour,
02-Jan-09 05:14 PM, #23
RE: Mini Thief Revamp is complete,
Mort,
02-Jan-09 05:14 PM, #21
Trapper Path,
Straklaw,
02-Jan-09 02:06 PM, #18
Whoops, FNCR (n/t),
Zulghinlour,
02-Jan-09 02:09 PM, #19
Additional queries!,
GinGa,
02-Jan-09 12:07 PM, #12
RE: Additional queries!,
Zulghinlour,
02-Jan-09 12:19 PM, #17
Then...,
GinGa,
02-Jan-09 05:14 PM, #20
I would consider making separate a pre-req to isolate.,
Scrimbul,
02-Jan-09 10:10 PM, #24
Question about overlapping skills:,
GinGa,
02-Jan-09 12:07 PM, #10
RE: Question about overlapping skills:,
Zulghinlour,
02-Jan-09 12:14 PM, #16
Blackjack works on fighting people, garotte doesn't so ...,
Abernyte,
05-Jan-09 07:25 AM, #35
RE: Mini Thief Revamp is complete,
kolb,
02-Jan-09 12:07 PM, #9
RE: Mini Thief Revamp is complete,
Zulghinlour,
02-Jan-09 12:12 PM, #15
I hate how awesome you are...,
BaronMySoul (Anonymous),
02-Jan-09 12:07 PM, #8
Existing thieves are left as is,
Zulghinlour,
02-Jan-09 12:09 PM, #13
Great stuff! One small request, though...,
Calion,
02-Jan-09 12:07 PM, #7
Uhm...no (n/t),
Zulghinlour,
02-Jan-09 12:09 PM, #14
RE: Mini Thief Revamp is complete,
DurNominator,
02-Jan-09 06:01 AM, #3
RE: Mini Thief Revamp is complete,
Zulghinlour,
02-Jan-09 06:03 AM, #5
I mistook it for a bad grammar sentence.,
DurNominator,
02-Jan-09 12:07 PM, #11
RE: Mini Thief Revamp is complete,
Splntrd,
02-Jan-09 06:01 AM, #2
RE: Mini Thief Revamp is complete,
Zulghinlour,
02-Jan-09 06:05 AM, #6
RE: Mini Thief Revamp is complete,
Splntrd,
03-Jan-09 01:12 PM, #25
RE: Mini Thief Revamp is complete,
Zulghinlour,
03-Jan-09 01:23 PM, #28
RE: Mini Thief Revamp is complete,
Splntrd,
03-Jan-09 06:15 PM, #31
Man, screw you for adding dual backstab back in.,
TheLastMohican,
02-Jan-09 06:01 AM, #1
Read the helpfile,
Zulghinlour,
02-Jan-09 06:02 AM, #4
| |
  |
Zulghinlour | Fri 16-Jan-09 12:13 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
| |
|
#1809, "help envenom"
In response to Reply #45
|
Level(0) ENVENOM Syntax: envenom <weapon>
Poisoners just starting out learn the ability to envenom a blade for a while causing it to strike with a poisoned bite. You are only able to envenom edged weapons.
See also: THIEVES 'POISONER PATH' So long, and thanks for all the fish!
|
|
|
|
|
Klaak | Wed 07-Jan-09 06:45 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
350 posts
| |
|
#1769, "maybe change the "You are able to study this now" messa..."
In response to Reply #0
|
so that it will only say you are able to study the skill if you have the prerequisite. Currently you might see:
Pickpocket Skills: * Level 12: plant (6 points) None * Level 15: discerning gaze (4 points) plant * Level 19: eye of avarice (4 points) discerning gaze * Level 21: deft touch (6 points) eye of avarice * Level 23: cutpurse (2 points) deft touch * Level 25: appraise (2 points) cutpurse * Level 25: combat steal (2 points) appraise * Level 26: warning skill (4 points) combat steal * Level 29: container stealing (2 points) warning skill Level 33: acrobatics (12 points) container stealing Level 36: counterfeit (2 points) acrobatics Level 38: fence (2 points) counterfeit
* You are able to study this now You currently have 6 thief points to spend.
But with only 6 thief points, by the time I study just plant, I'm no longer able to study the rest. Basically, instead of just showing whether or not you meet the level requirement, can we make it to show whether or not you meet ALL the requirements?
Additionally, is there something that can be done to show how many thief points a person has, aside from going all the way to a guild to do it? Perhaps including it in SCORE like specializations/legacies, or in PRACTICE below the practice sessions remaining?
|
|
|
|
  |
Zulghinlour | Sat 10-Jan-09 01:43 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
| |
|
#1804, "RE: maybe change the"
In response to Reply #42
|
>so that it will only say you are able to study the skill if >you have the prerequisite. Currently you might see: > >But with only 6 thief points, by the time I study just plant, >I'm no longer able to study the rest. Basically, instead of >just showing whether or not you meet the level requirement, >can we make it to show whether or not you meet ALL the >requirements?
FNCR
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
|
|
|
|
|
Klaak | Tue 06-Jan-09 11:44 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
350 posts
| |
|
#1746, "No help file for GRENADE MISSILE..."
In response to Reply #0
|
though there is one for GRENADE. Just not sure if GRANDE MISSILE is exactly the same as the old GRENADE, or if the old skill got tweaked a little bit.
|
|
|
|
|
Klaak | Tue 06-Jan-09 11:42 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
350 posts
| |
|
#1745, "Lore of the Ages and Arcane Vision"
In response to Reply #0
|
Wouldn't it make more sense of Lore of the Ages and Arcane Vision were switched? It seems to me that being able to detect magic would be a pre-requisite to being able to dodge magical weaponry (I base this off the understanding that to "dodge magical weaponry" means dodging the spell progs from certain weapons. If my understanding of that is inaccurate, then feel free to discard this suggestion.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1735, "Still no helpfile for cutpurse? n/t"
In response to Reply #0
|
|
|
  |
Lhydia | Mon 05-Jan-09 07:32 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
2379 posts
| |
|
#1722, "Its a general skill that everyones able to take now. n/..."
In response to Reply #34
|
|
|
  |
Elerosse | Mon 05-Jan-09 09:20 AM |
Member since 01st Nov 2006
423 posts
| |
|
#1723, "Pretty sure it is a general thief skills now.."
In response to Reply #34
|
Just looks like it is an oversight in the helpfiles.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1706, "Scroll Use."
In response to Reply #0
|
Now that scroll use has been moved to the "mystic path", will thieves finally use scrolls decently?
I played a bard and a thief back-to-back and the failure rate for thieves was INCREDIBLY higher, making it nearly completely useless to even attempt to use a scroll unless you have 20 of them. But I was wondering... Now that it is more of a specialization skill, will they finally get a little added boost?
|
|
|
|
  |
Zulghinlour | Sat 03-Jan-09 06:16 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
| |
|
#1708, "RE: Scroll Use."
In response to Reply #30
|
>Now that scroll use has been moved to the "mystic path", will >thieves finally use scrolls decently?
Depends on how far down the arcane path they go.
>I played a bard and a thief back-to-back and the failure rate >for thieves was INCREDIBLY higher, making it nearly completely >useless to even attempt to use a scroll unless you have 20 of >them. But I was wondering... Now that it is more of a >specialization skill, will they finally get a little added >boost?
I would disagree with "incredibly", but yes they don't do it as well as bards. So long, and thanks for all the fish!
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1705, "Thieves Cant"
In response to Reply #0
|
I have a thief that was made before the changes and got Thieves Cant. When I try to roll up a new thief, he doesn't have the skill. Seems other thieves rolled up post changes don't.
|
|
|
|
  |
Zulghinlour | Sat 03-Jan-09 06:16 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
| |
|
#1709, "Workin on it (n/t)"
In response to Reply #29
|
n/t So long, and thanks for all the fish!
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1702, "Lockpick Path"
In response to Reply #0
|
Does this mean that now all locks/doors/chests will be pickable/unlockable, even ones originally intended to not be pickable?
|
|
|
|
  |
Zulghinlour | Sat 03-Jan-09 01:13 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
| |
|
#1703, "Nope (n/t)"
In response to Reply #26
|
n/t So long, and thanks for all the fish!
|
|
|
|
|
Klaak | Fri 02-Jan-09 04:05 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
350 posts
| |
|
#1698, "Envenom doesn't seem to be working"
In response to Reply #0
|
<100%hp/100%hp 100%m/100%m 62%mv/62%mv 7 PM 5098tnl (2.90%) civilized> envenom dagger Huh?
|
|
|
|
  |
Zulghinlour | Fri 02-Jan-09 05:14 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
| |
|
#1699, "Working fine for me..."
In response to Reply #22
|
Did you actually practice it after you studied it? So long, and thanks for all the fish!
|
|
|
|
|
Mort | Fri 02-Jan-09 03:52 PM |
Member since 23rd Jan 2006
194 posts
| |
|
#1697, "RE: Mini Thief Revamp is complete"
In response to Reply #0
|
This stuff looks friggin' awesome. One skill is missing a helpfile, though: cutpurse.
|
|
|
|
  |
Zulghinlour | Fri 02-Jan-09 02:09 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
| |
|
#1695, "Whoops, FNCR (n/t)"
In response to Reply #18
|
n/t So long, and thanks for all the fish!
|
|
|
|
  |
Zulghinlour | Fri 02-Jan-09 12:19 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
| |
|
#1693, "RE: Additional queries!"
In response to Reply #12
|
>Now that things like Isolate and Separate are in the general >group, what exactly is the advantage of one over the other?
Controlling the direction?
>Do you need the grapple skill to grapple with separate?
Yes
>What is the advantage of shadow disappear over >'disengage;hide'?
I'd guess lag & whether or not you are fighting, but I'm not positive.
>I have no idea what climb is meant to do, from the helpfile or >the general description. Something to make fleeing easier in >rough terrain maybe?
More like climbing up the mountain to get to the Talshidar Caves.
>Thanks, just a lot of grey areas now that it's easier to mix >paths. This is a really awesome change otherwise, though from >the looks of things some skills will still need point >adjustment. Though I like how cheap shot is no longer a thug >only thing - thugs themselves have become a true study of >being a bastard coated bastard instead of a necessity to get >more lag on your trip. Ritur would have loved this change so >much he might have cried. Or more likely, made someone cry for >him. With his fist.
Yes, I know there will be point tweaking, but I've tried to give it my best estimate to start with.
>I LOVE YOU ZULGH, MARRY ME!
Sorry man, already taken. So long, and thanks for all the fish!
|
|
|
|
  |
Zulghinlour | Fri 02-Jan-09 12:14 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
| |
|
#1692, "RE: Question about overlapping skills:"
In response to Reply #10
|
>Do these two still overlap? Is there any point getting covert >if you are going to get improved hide anyway?
One makes you not come out of hiding, the other makes it so there are no echoes when you open/close something.
>Also, is blackjack in any way superior to garotte or would a >binder thief have no reason to get it anymore?
Blackjack comes earlier than garrotte, that's about the only reason I see for a binder to get it. So long, and thanks for all the fish!
|
|
|
|
    |
Abernyte | Mon 05-Jan-09 04:56 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
972 posts
| |
|
#1719, "Blackjack works on fighting people, garotte doesn't so ..."
In response to Reply #16
|
|
|
|
|
#1684, "I hate how awesome you are..."
In response to Reply #0
|
I actually choked on my breakfast as I read this. Thanks for your f-ing awesomeness.
I was already excited to play the thief I'm working on now, and I'm more excited reading this.
As far as existing thieves, were they reset to zero skills or left as is? Were there 100 thief points before this revamp or did they get added/subtracted to?
|
|
|
|
  |
Zulghinlour | Fri 02-Jan-09 12:09 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
| |
|
#1689, "Existing thieves are left as is"
In response to Reply #8
|
There were more than 100 points previously, but most skills costed more, and there wasn't the "general" pool. So long, and thanks for all the fish!
|
|
|
|
|
Calion | Fri 02-Jan-09 08:30 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
367 posts
| |
|
#1683, "Great stuff! One small request, though..."
In response to Reply #0
|
For poisoners: could you make APPLY a command instead of a skill? I mean when using their craft they have so many ways to fail at some stage. First they can fail with the CONCOCT skill or the relevant POISON TYPE (emetic, k-o, neuro, fear, mind), then with the APPLY skill, or the relevant METHOD skill (food, drink, weapon, contact, inhaled), and finally in the case of inhaled poisons the target may yet resist it. Not to mention that to begin with you must first buy or gather the necessary ingredients.
|
|
|
|
  |
Zulghinlour | Fri 02-Jan-09 12:09 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
| |
|
#1690, "Uhm...no (n/t)"
In response to Reply #7
|
n/t So long, and thanks for all the fish!
|
|
|
|
|
DurNominator | Fri 02-Jan-09 04:45 AM |
Member since 08th Nov 2004
2018 posts
| |
|
#1679, "RE: Mini Thief Revamp is complete"
In response to Reply #0
|
This is pretty cool revamp. I kinda like the general path addition idea.
- Thieves cant added as a skill for all thieves
What does this mean?
Anyway, it'd be nice to see the prequisite skill and cost in the thief points in the table in the helpfiles if there's room (unless it's simply the previous one like before).
Also, it's be nice to see those in the tables in the thief page, as that would be very handy for planning the combination.
|
|
|
|
    |
DurNominator | Fri 02-Jan-09 11:09 AM |
Member since 08th Nov 2004
2018 posts
| |
|
#1687, "I mistook it for a bad grammar sentence."
In response to Reply #5
|
As in "thieves can't ...". Anyway, looks like pretty cool addition.
|
|
|
|
|
Splntrd | Fri 02-Jan-09 03:32 AM |
Member since 08th Feb 2004
1096 posts
| |
|
#1678, "RE: Mini Thief Revamp is complete"
In response to Reply #0
|
I love it! Study command looks fantastic. I also love the grab bag of general thief skills and shortened paths, this was a great idea. I guess I picked a good time to have a lowbie thief.
Some quick notes regarding helpfiles from my very quick login today:
I know in the past, the mystic path and where to find it was kind of kept on the down-low. Currently, there is no mention of or hint in the helpfiles as to where the mystic path or the locksmith path can be studied. It'd be nice if the helpfiles for these paths said where to find them. If it's intended that they still be hard to find, it might be nice to see a note in the helpfiles saying as such. Something along the lines of "the teachers of these advanced and rare thief arts tend to keep a low profile, and are somewhat hard to find" would be great, just so we know it's intentional and not an oversight.
There's no clear and definitive list for all the "known" thief paths anywhere, seems like there should be one in the helpfile for thief paths. It also seems like for clarity's sake, there should be a separate helpfile regarding "thief guildhalls" and "thief paths".
Some of the new skills are/may be missing helpfiles, but you probably know that. I typo'd the only one I noticed. Splntrd
|
|
|
|
  |
Zulghinlour | Fri 02-Jan-09 06:05 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
| |
|
#1682, "RE: Mini Thief Revamp is complete"
In response to Reply #2
|
>I know in the past, the mystic path and where to find it was >kind of kept on the down-low. Currently, there is no mention >of or hint in the helpfiles as to where the mystic path or the >locksmith path can be studied. It'd be nice if the helpfiles >for these paths said where to find them. If it's intended that >they still be hard to find, it might be nice to see a note in >the helpfiles saying as such. Something along the lines of >"the teachers of these advanced and rare thief arts tend to >keep a low profile, and are somewhat hard to find" would be >great, just so we know it's intentional and not an oversight.
Uhm...read help thief path
>There's no clear and definitive list for all the "known" thief >paths anywhere, seems like there should be one in the helpfile >for thief paths. It also seems like for clarity's sake, there >should be a separate helpfile regarding "thief guildhalls" and >"thief paths".
Uhm...read help thief path
>Some of the new skills are/may be missing helpfiles, but you >probably know that. I typo'd the only one I noticed.
I thought I had them all covered... So long, and thanks for all the fish!
|
|
|
|
    |
Splntrd | Sat 03-Jan-09 02:44 AM |
Member since 08th Feb 2004
1096 posts
| |
|
#1701, "RE: Mini Thief Revamp is complete"
In response to Reply #6
|
I think my issue is more with the fact that it's difficult to find that information, than whether or not it's actually there or not. I made a few suggestions as to how to make it more user-friendly and readable. I understand it's probably not high on your priority list but I think it's important that complex systems like this have well organized, easy to read and easy to understand helpfiles to go along with them. Most everything else in the game does, no reason for something as cool as thieves to have a sucky helpfile. Splntrd
|
|
|
|
      |
Zulghinlour | Sat 03-Jan-09 01:23 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
| |
|
#1704, "RE: Mini Thief Revamp is complete"
In response to Reply #25
|
>I think my issue is more with the fact that it's difficult to >find that information, than whether or not it's actually there >or not.
How is it difficult to find? The first "See also" in help thieves is GUILDHALLS which contains all this information?
>I made a few suggestions as to how to make it more >user-friendly and readable.
Currently, there is no mention of or hint in the helpfiles as to where the mystic path or the locksmith path can be studied. It'd be nice if the helpfiles for these paths said where to find them.
I don't think it gets much clearer than what's in the helpfile...
Type/Path City First Skill Membership Required Mystic Arkham Scrolls Locksmith Darsylon Advanced Picklock
There's no clear and definitive list for all the "known" thief paths anywhere, seems like there should be one in the helpfile for thief paths. It also seems like for clarity's sake, there should be a separate helpfile regarding "thief guildhalls" and "thief paths".
Again...not sure how it can get much clearer than what's in the helpfile...
Type/Path City First Skill Membership Required Trapper Blackclaw Bag of Tricks X Trapper Arial City Bag of Tricks Trapper Upper Cragstone Bag of Tricks Thug Dagdan Push X Thug Tir-Talath Push Thug Northern Mountains Push Pickpocket Galadon Plant X Pickpocket Udgaard Plant Binder Hamsah Mu'Tazz Nimble Fingers X Binder Seantryn Modan Nimble Fingers Binder Village of Barovia Nimble Fingers Poisoner Voralian City Envenom X Poisoner Hillcrest Envenom Poisoner Evermoon Hollow Envenom Mystic Arkham Scrolls Locksmith Darsylon Advanced Picklock
>I understand it's probably not >high on your priority list but I think it's important that >complex systems like this have well organized, easy to read >and easy to understand helpfiles to go along with them. Most >everything else in the game does, no reason for something as >cool as thieves to have a sucky helpfile.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
|
|
|
|
        |
Splntrd | Sat 03-Jan-09 05:32 PM |
Member since 08th Feb 2004
1096 posts
| |
|
#1707, "RE: Mini Thief Revamp is complete"
In response to Reply #28
|
Ah, damnit. I didn't realize I posted that reply last night. The helpfiles are fine, I'd been drinking. Feel free to delete these, and sorry. Splntrd
|
|
|
|
|
TheLastMohican | Fri 02-Jan-09 03:14 AM |
Member since 25th Oct 2005
342 posts
| |
|
#1677, "Man, screw you for adding dual backstab back in."
In response to Reply #0
|
Seriously though, I'm rolling a thief. You ####ing rock Zulg.
Hip Hip Hooray, Zulg!
|
|
|
|
  |
Zulghinlour | Fri 02-Jan-09 06:02 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
9792 posts
| |
|
#1680, "Read the helpfile"
In response to Reply #1
|
It's not as cool as it used to be, but it definitely has its uses. So long, and thanks for all the fish!
|
|
|
|
|