>Orcs can soak up damage and dish out damage. This alone
>gives
>them a strong offensive base. Add to this a few
>potions/pills
>and picking when and where to fight and you have a pretty
>powerful class.

This is obvious with any classes in Thera. "Pick when and where to fight and you have a pretty powerful class" does not make the class itself powerful (or even close to it). In warfare a tank is pretty bad ass almost all the time but throw it into a heavily urbanized environment and it loses most of its effectiveness and suddenly that little man with a rifle and a gernade becomes way more powerful then he usually is 95% of the time. It is getting the tanks into that position which is difficult to do (especially when they know their weaknesses already). It is a little easier with surprise (camo/hide) but orc hide is so limited it is basically a safety/hide measure and not an ambush measure. You can say that for any class and saying it here doesn't ad validity to the "Power" of orcs.

>>5. Give them some kind of defense, maybe orcs as they get
>>bigger develop callacies that absorb some amount of damage
>>or protect vital areas or they have tough parts of their
>>skin that blocks an attack or two every once in a while.
>>Give them something to help them in the defense department,
>>at least a little.
>
>I don't like this idea. Simply because I feel if you give
>them
>some kind of defense, you should weaken them in another
>manner.

I am not talking about increasing their defensive abilities any huge amount but something along the lines of:
"Callacies"
Syntax: automatic
Help File: After years of constant beating and hardship orcs have developed a very thick hide in certain places. These massive boney outcroppings or double thickening of skin created from years of abuse work to the orcs' advantage. Blows that usually would cut deep do not cut as deep when striking a calace or blows that would usually shatter bones would be cushioned by the thickened skin. Know although, that an easy life as an orc makes them very soft indeed.

What it would do:
Each blow that comes in has a 25% chance of hitting a calace on the body. You could increase or decrease that percentage depending on how much the orc has died in his life (or been beat on). Of course the percentage would max out at 25% but maybe would start out at 1%. If the blow does not hit a calace, normal damage, it if does, maybe a 35%-50% reduction in the damage taken (depending on how big the orc is or some been beat on equation).

What you would see as the orc:
Someone's "weapon" cuts/impacts/etc a calace!
Someone's "attack type" maims you!
Someone's "attack type" MASSACRES you!
Someone's "attack type" MANGLES you!

What they would see:
Your "weapon" strikes true but loses power as it strikes a calace!
Your "attack type" maims orc!
Your "attack type" MASSACRES orc!
Your "attack type" MANGLES orc!

What others see:
Someone's "attack type" maims orc!
Someone's "attack type" MASSACRES orc!
Someone's "attack type" MANGLES orc!

It is not something you can rely on but it would be just a good littl bonus to the situation. The percentages of resistance are, of course, varible to make sure it falls into balance, but this does not duplicate any other skill in the game and is unique and possible, especially with the orc and their roleplay.

>I don't think orcs should be protecting orcs. If you go
>through
>orc heritage and Tolkien's take on orcs, they never stick
>around
>to defend one another and are purely self-motivated and
>self-concerned. I think animals like foxes/wolves or
>anything
>that is nature oriented probably has other senses that go
>beyond
>the use of eyes, thus having no need for the ability to see
>invisible. I don't think any of the orc mobs should be
>given
>detect invisible because most orcs are poor, rural beasts
>that
>don't have the money to hire a wizard. Even if a wizard was
>to
>come to the orc village, that wizard would probably be
>butchered
>for his things, or would be using the orcs as his own
>slaves.

Well I disagree here on three levels.

One, fine, foxes/wolves whatever can spell their prey well you would think an orc would smell a human/elf whatever when they walk through the village of stench. "Hmm what that smell, smell like human near, not smell like village, hmm smell come from over there, there smell, KILL SMELL!"

Two, Fine, orcs don't protect themselves, run away, whatever, yes when they are NOT IN THEIR HOME! Most if not all animals run away when hurt but if your corner them or fight them in their home they are vicious and terrible creatures. This is not about "protecting" other orcs it is more about protecting orc existance. You enter into a goblin village they don't suddenly all just RUN FOR THE HILLS, the fight like no other. Why in the hell do you think the guards at the gate yell if someone VISIBLE comes because they want to alert the whole village to go slaughter them. IT IS THEIR HOME. Enemies are in your DAMN HOME and you don't think orcs would not wonder how to defend against "someones" walking through their HOME all the time to kill other orcs, or their children, or whatever. Fine they are cowardly little craps, BUT if they didn't care about their young and their village there WOULD NOT BE ANY ORCS LEFT.

And THREE, from a player fun point of view (which is a view that is increasingly being forgotten for "correct roleplay") is that it is no fun at all to be constantly running, checking over your shoulder, constantly be harassed and not having any assemblance of safety, at least for a moment. CF is about having your guard up, almost all the time, but you have to unwind at one point or another to heal/sleep/roleplay, whatever.

>They are berserkers. Orcs are a very strong class if played
>correctly. I had doppel to help me out but I still managed
>to
>do just fine whenever I lost my cabal powers.

Not to say anything, but you do not understand the life of an orc now because you were part of a cabal. You had extra powers to assist you and with doppel you had a way to hide before you got hide and you had surprise which orcs do not have now. In addition you had free weapons with chaos blade, an extra way to do damage with chromatic fire, muddle, garble, and mirror. Also, you had a nice place to hide (cabal) as well! You were very far from being what an orc is now. I don't think you understand how good entropy powers are nor understand the situation orcs are in now.

>
>I think people get discouraged at the class because they
>cannot be
>successful right away. It takes more than being a thief
> stealth)
>and less than being a full warrior (offense) to play a
>successful
>orc. Just because you didn't play one well doesn't mean the
>class
>as a whole sucks.

Well, I didn't want to toot my horn with my goodbye post but I did play them well, pretty damn well, especially for the first time playing the class ever. I learned from my mistakes and was very good. My 69% pk ratio is pretty damn good considering the class. And I also did not say "as a whole sucks" I said they are different from their names. Berserker means to me a raging cajun angry mofo who is swinging and slashing until he goes down. If you played an orc like this you would die over and over again all the time. Orcs are clearly hit and run class/race combo unless they are in a group.

And try playing an orc now Naz and you will find it a lot different and more difficult as well. And know being in entropy made your life so much easier then I think you even realize.

And when you are chief, life is pretty easy but that 790 hour lag on assemble horde sucks. So for the next chief, just go mob die at hero and lose the flag and call the horde again! Mmmuaah!!!

But whatever, I did this just because I wanted to help improve orcs to be a viable class and have a throw away character. Hope at least some changes are done. I am still waiting for the orc changes promised so long ago.

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