Thu May 16 19:46:49 2002


4 o''clock AM, Day of the Sun, 13th of the Month of the Heat on the Theran calendar Gramoti perished, never to return.

Ok ok, so I didn't fully quit. This character was a throw away character because I wanted to see how good orcs really were. Well, I can honestly say they are not that good except when you reach Chief. I cannot say that I was the best at playing them or I did all the tricks, but I learned a lot about them and they are basically a gangbang class.
Orcs almost reach self sufficency level about level 37 when they get enslave and hide and have savage feeding. But from there it is all downhill again until you hit Chief (which is damn hard to do heh!).

The whole idea about a clan and not being able to join a cabal is kind of cool and having a cabal channel between all the orcs but in reality it is useless 99% of the time (and a hinderance when you two orc peons yelling crap over the channel over and over and over). There are never enough orcs playing to make it a viable option for a clan. I saw with this character 25 to 30 orc characters and how many made it above 40? 3 including me, Garuk and Horak and myself and I had to drag Garuk up by his damn coattails to do it .

But in all honesty they are ok. Their lack in defense and their glaring vunerabilities make them hit and run artists at best but I must admit orcs are one of the best classes to gangbang with (Sorry Shamus).

I have a few suggestions for what they are worth (but I bet the peanut gallery will find them worth nothing ) but I'll say them anyway.
1. Move grapple weapon to level 30ish. Give them some way to remove weapons since they can't tank worth crap. Everyone and their mother gets disarm at level 15 why do orcs have to wait to level 42 to get a disarm skill? They do not have any way to maladict people to lose their weapon so why not give them a disarming skill a little lower level? I see no problem with it.

2. Make headbutt work on things that are two sizes smaller than you. I really don't understand why with headbutt you cannot headbutt gnomes. You have to have a free hand to use headbutt anyway, why is it you can't just pick up the gnome and bash him in the head with your head. Beyond that complaint I would say headbutt is/was actually a pretty good skill.

3. Go through the areas and figure out what the hell they are, cave or not cave. The cave south of the Aryth ocean looks like a cave, smells like a cave, but nope, can't hide in it. Underdark is one big damn cave, nope, can't hide there. The whole hiding in swamps only at night is dumb in my opinion too, why not give them hide in swamps and hide in caves and the village and leave it at that? there are many more areas that should be caves that are not caves. I'll find my list and post it and see what reaction I get from immortals.

4. make the three orc group actually continue to get the bonus experience above level 20. It seemed like at level 20, it fell off to nothing and being in a three orc group was pretty useless once you got above that level.

5. Give them some kind of defense, maybe orcs as they get bigger develop callacies that absorb some amount of damage or protect vital areas or they have tough parts of their skin that blocks an attack or two every once in a while. Give them something to help them in the defense department, at least a little.

6. Make SOME of the mobs at least in the orc village SEE INVISIBLE. Everyone else and their mother have a semi safe place to go, guilds, cabals, etc, but you don't with an orc. And I am sorry Zulghinlour, by saying, "why would orcs have detect invisible" as the reasoning is like saying, "why do foxes have detect invisible?". It is a fantasy game and some assemblence of safety is needed for orcs because they are so offensive related and don't have much defense. That is why people join cabals, for safety well orcs can't do that at least give them some level of safety in the village. I loved being defeated by cyclops elixirs . This is the main reason (I believe) that so many orcs just give up before they get to level 30, it is because you NEVER EVER have time to just relax a moment and rest. At any moment you can easily be killed in the village even in front of the Chief mob. How a level 51 chief mob gets by without detect invis is beyond me.

Ok beyond my rants and raves, I'll do my goodbyes.

First I would like to thank everyone who shunned orcs like they had a plague, both goods, neutrals, and evils. Trying to get over the stigma of orc itself was a chore. No one would group with you at all. Even ragers who I tried to buddy up to during my whole life would not touch me with a 10 foot pole. Except Shamus who did something strange and forgave the orc and we traveled and I backstabbed you in that like 12 mob/man gangbang, sorry again .

Immortals: Had no immortal interaction with this character at all. Thanks for the orc class, it is certainly interesting, keep up the good work.

Scion:
Krivohan: you seem squared away but you were always on a power trip when you talked to the chief of the orc village, which I didn't understand. I would think you would jump on the chance to get the orcs on your side especially with three in hero range, but nope, you didn't. Oh well.

Dullameh: Thanks for not killing me. I have no idea why you didn't. I wonder what you get with an orc phlactery? Lets you get hit more? *laugh*

Vomalice: The traps were great. We did very well together surprisingly. Leading all those bloodthirsty paladins to the Erinin river where we beat the crap out of them. They all got away barely alive, always their virtue bash dodge or shield spec bash resistance saved their ass. It was fun.

Eleke: You are the worst assassin I know, hands down.

Maran:
Tylinn: You were fun to fight but unfortunately you were predictable. As Shokai said, you walked in and used kicks and totally forgot about Kot/kan etc. And you need to HIDE as an assassin. I don't know why but I always saw you coming a mile away because you never hid. Made my life easy to just bash you and manipulate the fight. Was fun, go get them with the next character.

Paladins: aka the bane of orcs. Yes you can't finish the kill but you can do massive damage in a short time. Wrath and wrath weapons and being in Maran and I was meat. The only time I did well is when I had the horde.

Nexus:
Nydeikon: I just tried to be friends with you because I didn't want to be assassinated. You seemed receptive enough and played the neutral fence sitter well.

Other ones I didn't interact wit much.

Entropy:
Ulfin: You I hated completely. You constantly helped my enemies and lied to me over and over again. I was such the underdog and you made it worse. I was hoping to get a crack at you with the Horde but I got bored. So annoying having a healer who says he will help you and then helps whoever you fight, every time.

Others not know.

Tribunal:
Not much there except for Dugarain when we summoned Boldereth together, good aligned dwarf shaman in tribunal summoning a druid sylvan warder captain neutral aline to two chaotic evil orcs, Oh can the irony get any better than that? Good time.

Warlocks:
Didn't mess with you much.

Sylvans:
Oh my favorite cabal to hunt.
Perry: You got the short end of the stick but I was surprised you stuck in so long, wood elf banner against wood elf wielding iron and it was an ugly senario. Keep trucking.

Alysrith (sp?) the captain: You were a little tougher especially with the staffs. That time I attacked you at the strange island I remembered Abertyne's advise and grappled right away and sure enough you fled and recalled. wish you would have stayed. Enjoyed all our fights.

Boldereth: Druids are close to paladins in orc bane. Sunray and our inability to defend ourselves from damage make the sunray/falcon combo almost unbeatable. The first time we got you was fun, the second time you came walking into the orc village killing everything was just plain stupid. How would you feel if someone came into the grove killing all the nice animals, you would kill them, exactly what we did.

Targaryen: My invoker nemisis. We must have fought all the way through all the levels from level 20 up. I finally carried around reduce potions just to deal with you and all the other gnome invokers. We exchanged blows a lot and I think we came out even in the win/loss ratio although you beat me down more I just got away. Not sure on this but you were good. I guess I'll say what others say, show up more, the lich isn't that scary!

Independants:
Duharan: You took pity on a poor orc and heroed him, thanks. You were great to run around with, the lemur is a great form. You rock, thanks.

Llor: You helped hero the orc too and helped him get chief (along with Duharan) thanks for what it is worth. Sorry your legacy/specs stuff didn't work out. Once you are in the bad light with people, you tend to stay there unless you make dramatic change.

Orcs:
Horak: You were great to run around with. You seemed new to the game but grasped the concepts quickly. You are the next chief. I wanted to let myself die to you so you could get it but you were not around and I didn't want it anymore. It is definitely worth getting to hero to et chiefy, the horde is tons of fun.

Garuk: You I had to drag around by your collar showing you things and getting you squared away. You did not grasp much quick but it was always nice to have another orc around, no matter who. I still look back at the log of Boldereth where you just spammed bash on his armor of thorns. I guess it was a good idea, I guess? Well it worked out well enough.

Other orcs: It is a tough tough life getting up there. Don't believe the hype about orcs being berserkers they are not. They are little coward bitches who have to hit and run to survive. The name of the class should definitely be changed, there is nothing really "berserkish" about them.

Anyway, thanks again. The addition grabs me and throws me around but I think this is a good sign. I'm just doing throw away characters now and not being full blown useful characters. I'm trying to quit everyone but boy is it tough.

have a great one all!

Gramoti/Goapa

Down with the chief!

It was fun. I tried to do more with you but I always was busy with stuff it seemed.. Would have been good to do more with you. (Though from a role play view, my drow shouldve been disgusted in your presence) As a player though, you think like me...attack..attack...attack...so I liked every moment.

Good job, I seem to like all your charactors. Fighting Goapa with my goodie mages, in the past..*grin*

Any time I did, my morale would immediately drop to low.

A dirty, dumb, cowardly leader of an orc village talking to the High Chancellor of the darkest mages in Thera? I could tell you thought yourself an equal, but I didn't consider you one. IC I really dislike orcs and don't trust them whatsoever. It didn't help your situatuin that everytime I saw an orc on they were grouped with a Battlerager. Which led me to believe you were playing both sides against the middle and doing what was best for the orc clan. Not that I wouldn't blame you for it.

>Ok ok, so I didn't fully quit. This character was a throw
>away character because I wanted to see how good orcs really
>were. Well, I can honestly say they are not that good except
>when you reach Chief. I cannot say that I was the best at
>playing them or I did all the tricks, but I learned a lot
>about them and they are basically a gangbang class.

I don't agree with you here. Orcs can stand alone with or
without another person at their side. Personally, they
get enough hp and such a low pk range that I think orcs more
than have an advantage over most classes. Any class can be
a gang-bang class if all you are looking to do is win all
your battles.

>Orcs almost reach self sufficency level about level 37 when
>they get enslave and hide and have savage feeding. But from
>there it is all downhill again until you hit Chief (which is
>damn hard to do heh!).

I agree with your statement about their skills here. The
fact that orcs have standard warrior/thief skills in
their sub 35's isn't really a motivational factor in playing
the class. I think some unique orc-only skills as well as
some form of disarm below rank 35 would really make them
more formidable.

>The whole idea about a clan and not being able to join a
>cabal is kind of cool and having a cabal channel between all
>the orcs but in reality it is useless 99% of the time (and a
>hinderance when you two orc peons yelling crap over the
>channel over and over and over). There are never enough orcs
>playing to make it a viable option for a clan. I saw with
>this character 25 to 30 orc characters and how many made it
>above 40? 3 including me, Garuk and Horak and myself and I
>had to drag Garuk up by his damn coattails to do it .

>But in all honesty they are ok. Their lack in defense and
>their glaring vunerabilities make them hit and run artists
>at best but I must admit orcs are one of the best classes to
>gangbang with (Sorry Shamus).

Orcs can soak up damage and dish out damage. This alone gives
them a strong offensive base. Add to this a few potions/pills
and picking when and where to fight and you have a pretty
powerful class.

>I have a few suggestions for what they are worth (but I bet
>the peanut gallery will find them worth nothing ) but I'll
>say them anyway.

>1. Move grapple weapon to level 30ish. Give them some way to
>remove weapons since they can't tank worth crap. Everyone
>and their mother gets disarm at level 15 why do orcs have to
>wait to level 42 to get a disarm skill? They do not have any
>way to maladict people to lose their weapon so why not give
>them a disarming skill a little lower level? I see no
>problem with it.

Very good suggestion.

>2. Make headbutt work on things that are two sizes smaller
>than you. I really don't understand why with headbutt you
>cannot headbutt gnomes. You have to have a free hand to use
>headbutt anyway, why is it you can't just pick up the gnome
>and bash him in the head with your head. Beyond that
>complaint I would say headbutt is/was actually a pretty good
>skill.

Another really good one.

>3. Go through the areas and figure out what the hell they
>are, cave or not cave. The cave south of the Aryth ocean
>looks like a cave, smells like a cave, but nope, can't hide
>in it. Underdark is one big damn cave, nope, can't hide
>there. The whole hiding in swamps only at night is dumb in
>my opinion too, why not give them hide in swamps and hide in
>caves and the village and leave it at that? there are many
>more areas that should be caves that are not caves. I'll
>find my list and post it and see what reaction I get from
>immortals.

Agreed.

>4. make the three orc group actually continue to get the
>bonus experience above level 20. It seemed like at level 20,
>it fell off to nothing and being in a three orc group was
>pretty useless once you got above that level.

This wasn't around when Naz was around. So I don't know where
there would be a difference.

>5. Give them some kind of defense, maybe orcs as they get
>bigger develop callacies that absorb some amount of damage
>or protect vital areas or they have tough parts of their
>skin that blocks an attack or two every once in a while.
>Give them something to help them in the defense department,
>at least a little.

I don't like this idea. Simply because I feel if you give them
some kind of defense, you should weaken them in another manner.

>6. Make SOME of the mobs at least in the orc village SEE
>INVISIBLE. Everyone else and their mother have a semi safe
>place to go, guilds, cabals, etc, but you don't with an orc.
>And I am sorry Zulghinlour, by saying, "why would orcs have
>detect invisible" as the reasoning is like saying, "why do
>foxes have detect invisible?". It is a fantasy game and some
>assemblence of safety is needed for orcs because they are so
>offensive related and don't have much defense. That is why
>people join cabals, for safety well orcs can't do that at
>least give them some level of safety in the village. I loved
>being defeated by cyclops elixirs . This is the main
>reason (I believe) that so many orcs just give up before
>they get to level 30, it is because you NEVER EVER have time
>to just relax a moment and rest. At any moment you can
>easily be killed in the village even in front of the Chief
>mob. How a level 51 chief mob gets by without detect invis
>is beyond me.

I don't think orcs should be protecting orcs. If you go through
orc heritage and Tolkien's take on orcs, they never stick around
to defend one another and are purely self-motivated and
self-concerned. I think animals like foxes/wolves or anything
that is nature oriented probably has other senses that go beyond
the use of eyes, thus having no need for the ability to see
invisible. I don't think any of the orc mobs should be given
detect invisible because most orcs are poor, rural beasts that
don't have the money to hire a wizard. Even if a wizard was to
come to the orc village, that wizard would probably be butchered
for his things, or would be using the orcs as his own slaves.


>Other orcs: It is a tough tough life getting up there. Don't
>believe the hype about orcs being berserkers they are not.
>They are little coward bitches who have to hit and run to
>survive. The name of the class should definitely be changed,
>there is nothing really "berserkish" about them.

They are berserkers. Orcs are a very strong class if played
correctly. I had doppel to help me out but I still managed to
do just fine whenever I lost my cabal powers. Spinebreak, wait
for your enemies preparations to drop and then commence to
cheap shotting the hell out of them. In my opinion, this is
extremely powerful and similar to giving cheap shot to a warrior.

I think people get discouraged at the class because they cannot be
successful right away. It takes more than being a thief (stealth)
and less than being a full warrior (offense) to play a successful
orc. Just because you didn't play one well doesn't mean the class
as a whole sucks.

Naz the Most Cunning Orc - "Wher tha Chuntog?"

Mebbe da Gramoti not like Orc cause Gramoti not full of love like Chuntog, or cunnin' like da Naz. Chuntong agree Gramoti have some gud idears, but Chuntog think Gramoit not fully explore Orc Power like Naz an Chuntog. Orcs gud in da gang, true, but if'n an Orc is pickin' his spots... Orc powerful alone, if have power of love on side. Poor Chuntog wish was 'round wit Naz to show new Orcs (who gots even betters skills!) how ta kills. Poor Chuntog!

>Orcs can soak up damage and dish out damage. This alone
>gives
>them a strong offensive base. Add to this a few
>potions/pills
>and picking when and where to fight and you have a pretty
>powerful class.

This is obvious with any classes in Thera. "Pick when and where to fight and you have a pretty powerful class" does not make the class itself powerful (or even close to it). In warfare a tank is pretty bad ass almost all the time but throw it into a heavily urbanized environment and it loses most of its effectiveness and suddenly that little man with a rifle and a gernade becomes way more powerful then he usually is 95% of the time. It is getting the tanks into that position which is difficult to do (especially when they know their weaknesses already). It is a little easier with surprise (camo/hide) but orc hide is so limited it is basically a safety/hide measure and not an ambush measure. You can say that for any class and saying it here doesn't ad validity to the "Power" of orcs.

>>5. Give them some kind of defense, maybe orcs as they get
>>bigger develop callacies that absorb some amount of damage
>>or protect vital areas or they have tough parts of their
>>skin that blocks an attack or two every once in a while.
>>Give them something to help them in the defense department,
>>at least a little.
>
>I don't like this idea. Simply because I feel if you give
>them
>some kind of defense, you should weaken them in another
>manner.

I am not talking about increasing their defensive abilities any huge amount but something along the lines of:
"Callacies"
Syntax: automatic
Help File: After years of constant beating and hardship orcs have developed a very thick hide in certain places. These massive boney outcroppings or double thickening of skin created from years of abuse work to the orcs' advantage. Blows that usually would cut deep do not cut as deep when striking a calace or blows that would usually shatter bones would be cushioned by the thickened skin. Know although, that an easy life as an orc makes them very soft indeed.

What it would do:
Each blow that comes in has a 25% chance of hitting a calace on the body. You could increase or decrease that percentage depending on how much the orc has died in his life (or been beat on). Of course the percentage would max out at 25% but maybe would start out at 1%. If the blow does not hit a calace, normal damage, it if does, maybe a 35%-50% reduction in the damage taken (depending on how big the orc is or some been beat on equation).

What you would see as the orc:
Someone's "weapon" cuts/impacts/etc a calace!
Someone's "attack type" maims you!
Someone's "attack type" MASSACRES you!
Someone's "attack type" MANGLES you!

What they would see:
Your "weapon" strikes true but loses power as it strikes a calace!
Your "attack type" maims orc!
Your "attack type" MASSACRES orc!
Your "attack type" MANGLES orc!

What others see:
Someone's "attack type" maims orc!
Someone's "attack type" MASSACRES orc!
Someone's "attack type" MANGLES orc!

It is not something you can rely on but it would be just a good littl bonus to the situation. The percentages of resistance are, of course, varible to make sure it falls into balance, but this does not duplicate any other skill in the game and is unique and possible, especially with the orc and their roleplay.

>I don't think orcs should be protecting orcs. If you go
>through
>orc heritage and Tolkien's take on orcs, they never stick
>around
>to defend one another and are purely self-motivated and
>self-concerned. I think animals like foxes/wolves or
>anything
>that is nature oriented probably has other senses that go
>beyond
>the use of eyes, thus having no need for the ability to see
>invisible. I don't think any of the orc mobs should be
>given
>detect invisible because most orcs are poor, rural beasts
>that
>don't have the money to hire a wizard. Even if a wizard was
>to
>come to the orc village, that wizard would probably be
>butchered
>for his things, or would be using the orcs as his own
>slaves.

Well I disagree here on three levels.

One, fine, foxes/wolves whatever can spell their prey well you would think an orc would smell a human/elf whatever when they walk through the village of stench. "Hmm what that smell, smell like human near, not smell like village, hmm smell come from over there, there smell, KILL SMELL!"

Two, Fine, orcs don't protect themselves, run away, whatever, yes when they are NOT IN THEIR HOME! Most if not all animals run away when hurt but if your corner them or fight them in their home they are vicious and terrible creatures. This is not about "protecting" other orcs it is more about protecting orc existance. You enter into a goblin village they don't suddenly all just RUN FOR THE HILLS, the fight like no other. Why in the hell do you think the guards at the gate yell if someone VISIBLE comes because they want to alert the whole village to go slaughter them. IT IS THEIR HOME. Enemies are in your DAMN HOME and you don't think orcs would not wonder how to defend against "someones" walking through their HOME all the time to kill other orcs, or their children, or whatever. Fine they are cowardly little craps, BUT if they didn't care about their young and their village there WOULD NOT BE ANY ORCS LEFT.

And THREE, from a player fun point of view (which is a view that is increasingly being forgotten for "correct roleplay") is that it is no fun at all to be constantly running, checking over your shoulder, constantly be harassed and not having any assemblance of safety, at least for a moment. CF is about having your guard up, almost all the time, but you have to unwind at one point or another to heal/sleep/roleplay, whatever.

>They are berserkers. Orcs are a very strong class if played
>correctly. I had doppel to help me out but I still managed
>to
>do just fine whenever I lost my cabal powers.

Not to say anything, but you do not understand the life of an orc now because you were part of a cabal. You had extra powers to assist you and with doppel you had a way to hide before you got hide and you had surprise which orcs do not have now. In addition you had free weapons with chaos blade, an extra way to do damage with chromatic fire, muddle, garble, and mirror. Also, you had a nice place to hide (cabal) as well! You were very far from being what an orc is now. I don't think you understand how good entropy powers are nor understand the situation orcs are in now.

>
>I think people get discouraged at the class because they
>cannot be
>successful right away. It takes more than being a thief
> stealth)
>and less than being a full warrior (offense) to play a
>successful
>orc. Just because you didn't play one well doesn't mean the
>class
>as a whole sucks.

Well, I didn't want to toot my horn with my goodbye post but I did play them well, pretty damn well, especially for the first time playing the class ever. I learned from my mistakes and was very good. My 69% pk ratio is pretty damn good considering the class. And I also did not say "as a whole sucks" I said they are different from their names. Berserker means to me a raging cajun angry mofo who is swinging and slashing until he goes down. If you played an orc like this you would die over and over again all the time. Orcs are clearly hit and run class/race combo unless they are in a group.

And try playing an orc now Naz and you will find it a lot different and more difficult as well. And know being in entropy made your life so much easier then I think you even realize.

And when you are chief, life is pretty easy but that 790 hour lag on assemble horde sucks. So for the next chief, just go mob die at hero and lose the flag and call the horde again! Mmmuaah!!!

But whatever, I did this just because I wanted to help improve orcs to be a viable class and have a throw away character. Hope at least some changes are done. I am still waiting for the orc changes promised so long ago.

Go

-Not to say anything, but you do not understand the life of an orc now because you were part of a cabal. You had extra powers to assist you and with doppel you had a way to hide before you got hide and you had surprise which orcs do not have now. In addition you had free weapons with chaos blade, an extra way to do damage with chromatic fire, muddle, garble, and mirror. Also, you had a nice place to hide (cabal) as well! You were very far from being what an orc is now. I don't think you understand how good entropy powers are nor understand the situation orcs are in now.

Chuntog agree wit Naz mostly. Chuntog was Scion, so no have da great power. Chuntog not have new Orc powers either, which gud! But Chuntog had 95% ratio, kill kill! Chuntog hear about Orcs saying too tough lately, so Chuntog play new Orc for bit! New Chuntog only get to like level 35 tink, but had 100% dis time. CHUNTOG! Chuntog know is harder in few ranks above, but Chuntog still like da Orcs! Chuntog tink da Gramoti do purty good job though. Like Orc power! Mebbe Orc need da small changes, but overall Orcs is... CHUNTOG!

Eleke: You are the worst assassin I know, hands down.

I'm curious to know why you would think this, seeing as the only time I ever interacted with you in any way was when we drug you along to rank with us on the volcano for about 15-20 minutes before someone had to leave. Or was it my repeated ignoring of your "Can you see me?" tells that you kept sending me while you were supposedly in a swamp?

I said that once or twice to another orc (Horak) in the village when I first got hide and it was not perfected. Perfected it in 20 minutes never said it again so I don't think you are talking about me. Probably Garuk.

It was trying to rank with you. You got beat down constantly. Did they downgrade assassin tanking abilities or something because you always got beat down. And then after maybe 15 minutes of ranking you would up and recall and end up a corpse somewhere not shortly after. I guess I didn't understand why you kept dying or why you did not want to hero. I was boggled.

But I do take back the statement, it was a little harsh. Because when I think about it there were way worse assassins. Sorry about that.

Are you hero yet?

Goapa

I hate to mess up your outlook on events now, but I didn't "recall and die". And I don't "keep dying". The number of times i've died to another can be counted on one hand I believe, though it may be more like seven times. As for tanking, doing storm giants at 42 or so even with perfected defenses can be a pain in the ass. Keep in mind I wasn't hasted or sanced. I believe our ranking that time was screwed up when the other person there (I don't remember who) got half the giants on the mountain on his butt. That "15 minutes of ranking" is the only interaction you had with me besides me congratulating you on becoming the orc chief and kind of hoping you would stick around, which you did not.

You're also a human, which doesn't help. I recall being disappointed with how well my human assassin tanked at near-hero ranks.