Mon Jul 22 23:24:13 2002


7 o''clock AM, Day of the Sun, 34th of the Month of the Winter Wolf on the Theran calendar Stargher perished, never to return.

Well of course.
Stop being fucking Scion evil kill all guys.
Do a 180, be a Maran, or a Villager.
Be a dawnite... no, dont be a dawnite.
Dude, I am serious.

I don't kill *all* guys. There's women too...
Don't care for the new village, and what marans?
Dude, I'm evil, serious.

Scion. Feh!

-Boy Scout (I liked Karel alot more than Stargher)

So did I.
Also liked empire better then scion and shadow better then empire, but the past is just that.

Read or don't, agree or don't, just my thoughts.

1. The new blessing...sucks. Instead of getting no soul from someone how about maybe half normal? Because the negative *FAR* outweighs the positive as it is.

2. Iron grip...ok, if someone can dispel my physical transformation, let me dispel shapeshifters back to human. There is one good reason there will never be an a-p of truly monstrous proportions for long, any thief/transmuter combo can kill them with just bj, dispel, fumble. The time I was slept at the archmage by the bard was just sad.

3. Unholy weapons...make them harder to destroy based upon the souls in them. Maybe make it necessary to have a paladin untaint it, or harm the people that destroy it...something.

4. Aura of despair...not overly useful and can be very deadly if you need to run quick anywhere near anything "natural", maybe make it like the deshield command...

5. Defense...or lack there of. Extra weapon or a shield is a terrible choice to have to make when you can't dodge, especially when you're a giant and can't carry those extra few items like shields. Hey, our prime advesary are those sanctuaried paladins who wrath alot....dodge isn't much to ask.

6. In general...a great class to play at times, not a character for any real solo work except some prepped wetworks.

General thought: every class has its 'goods and bads' (yeah, I'm not English ); if only 'goods', that would lead to a class comparable to liches and thus very bad for game balance (and fun - you have any idea of how many people log off or even refuse to log on when they see Dullameh around ?), if only 'bads', the class would suck and no one would play it.
As I have fought against a lot of (old class) ap's, I know it is hard for them 'to get started', i.e. to get some counters on their axe or sword or whatever. But once they have that they can easily beat up most classes (given that you use ALL your abilities, use wands, quaff potions, etc. ) Trust me, I have seen ap's do things that really knocked me off of my chair. I think your main problem was that there were/are tons of paladins around: you flee from one, you find another one, you flee again, and you have to face another one because some bird is telling everyone where you are, etc ..
I have no idea about how good or bad the new unholy blessing is, but if you have to fight ap's with axes like tillian's (or whatever his name was), you're dead anyways: that was demolish and devastate through resisting and sanctuary ... I mean .. how fair is that for us ?
As for the irongrip .. if it was not 'dispelable' then we would only have the chance to sacrifice your axe when we kill you - or be lucky and catch you off guard .. given the fact that you can teleport, quaff flying and cast protective shield + use wands (which you didn't use often, if at all - I don't know the reason for that, but there are times of the day that you can easily get them with a group of 4, 5 people), where would that leave us ? .. Besides I don't think you were fumbled THAT much eh ?
The idea about untainting an unholy weapon by a paladin is kinda cool, but useless once all those paladins that are around now, delete or stop showing up. There are other ways to protect your weapons (not much .. but think about elves for instance - which can be a disadvantage as well when you walk around with drow .. :-p)

Anyways, you may be right about some points, but I do think the ap class is fairly balanced as it is now.

Gorach
P.S. my reasoning might 'rumble' a bit, but I am hungry and wrote this just before diner.

>1. The new blessing...sucks. Instead of getting no soul from
>someone how about maybe half normal? Because the negative
>*FAR* outweighs the positive as it is.

Actually the average amount of charges per player running around is higher than before. The problem is...you were obviously picking on totally weak opponents. There is always a chance to get a charge from anyone. Weak opponents is less than half, but still possible.

I'm still waiting for someone to kill the people worth 5 charges, 10 charges, 15 charges, and then see the "unholy blessing is overpowered" thread. Should have stuck with it a little more.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

I was about to say you guys nerfed Unholy blessing. But if even weak people always give you a 50% chance of getting a charge and killing Krivohan types can give you 15 charges, then I guess you guys did right by it. That is of course if it actually does work that way

P.S. Out of curiosity are there any plans to revamp AP's?

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

Maybe he'd be willing to "take one for the team."

Just for my sorry sake I am glad to see that they get less charges for killing those with a crappy pk ratio. Otherwise Stargher would have blasted me another 4 or 5 times just to feed his axe.

It gives those of us who can't last for ##### a little better chance since there is really no reason to kill us other than roleplaying reasons!

If you give me an axe that I can charge by killing people that obviously don't know what they're doing, I'm going to abuse the hell out of that. *grin*

Just my two cents...

Whether it feeds an axe or not, a pk'r is going to kill you every time he see's you whether or not he has unholy blessing. The only thing the new changes will do is make them hunt newbies a little less fervantly, but not much.

I'm willing to lay a sizeable bet down you will never see that thread. I didn't pick on weak people, I picked on anyone I could get my hands on. At one point or another I got the last hit on about everyone. No, I didn't kill Dullameh or Dakizar, they probablly have the most souls at the moment. According to the posts in the news forum unholy blessing was suppose to be more interesting for the new and old alike...personally in my opinion, a newbie a-p isn't going to go anywhere. The veteran players who have the more then one soul aren't likely to go down to them, and just in my experience everyone else has a very poor chance of having any soul. Maybe I just have bad luck and was always hitting 49% and below, who knows. I just liked it better before, you kill, you get a soul. As I said, just an opinion.

>I'm willing to lay a sizeable bet down you will never see
>that thread. I didn't pick on weak people, I picked on
>anyone I could get my hands on.

Which apparently were the weak people

>At one point or another I
>got the last hit on about everyone. No, I didn't kill
>Dullameh or Dakizar, they probablly have the most souls at
>the moment.

Those who have the reputation as killers, will probably be worth alot more than those who couldn't find their ass with two hands and a torch, yes.

>According to the posts in the news forum unholy
>blessing was suppose to be more interesting for the new and
>old alike...personally in my opinion, a newbie a-p isn't
>going to go anywhere. The veteran players who have the more
>then one soul aren't likely to go down to them, and just in
>my experience everyone else has a very poor chance of having
>any soul.

Veteran players are going to have an advantage, yes. They die fewer times (typically). But people still die to a fluke kill here and there, no reason that can't be an A-P getting the kill and powerboosting an axe for a short time.

>Maybe I just have bad luck and was always hitting
>49% and below, who knows. I just liked it better before, you
>kill, you get a soul. As I said, just an opinion.

And it's a valid opinion. To give you the alternate view, we (the royal we) got tired of watching people spam kill the really weak folks to build up charges in an attempt to re-create Palan's axe. As I've said before, there is a chance that everyone you kill is worth a charge, but the weakest people there is less than a 50% chance you'll get one.

I think there are really two problems left with unholy blessing right now. 1. Controls probably need to be looked at again, and probably lowered. 2. The power swings are going to cause A-P's to get less charges, because of the bandwagon jumpers. I'm sure you probably got no good charges when Dullameh is around, because there really isn't anyone to kill. When all the weight is on one side of the balance A-P's are goign to hate it, and that I can't say is that big of a problem to me.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

Is in need of a revamp. I've played 3 or 4 ap's, two that got up to unholy blessing (Aethomyr and Myrsus, neither of them particularly memorable). Essentially what it comes down to is playing a warrior with no specs and the ability to use aura/shield/barrier wands. Yes, that his a horrendous oversimplification of the career of an ap, but that's essentially where they're at their best and for the most part how you get charges. With Aethomyr I got a few smooth deafen/worldbind related kills and tricked people into some good summon traps, but for the most part it was rely on the overpoweredness and availability of barrier/shield/aura/stone skin or bash down the newbies. With the exception of Tikar and Yathiente I have not seen any ap of repute that hasn't been a mostly bandwagon scion whose character creation happens to coincide with times when Scion has plenty of heroes showing up on a regular basis... and we all know Yathiente was a tremendous coward. Yea, they can all bitch about how awesome they were hunting solo, but I didn't see any of them in times of Sylvan/Fortress/Rager power when there were only a few scion heroes showing up sporadically. I wouldn't really blame them either, being on your own and charging up your axe to any serious level without dying is horrendously difficult if you aren't bashing newbies or ganging people and then laying low or not showing up at all in times of big pk danger.
My only suggestion is that the class be further pushed in either the warrior or mage direction. Have them lose sleep (definitely not summon though) and for the love of god give them spellcraft if you want them to be any sort of semblance of magic users at the higher ranks where saves are for the most part pretty high. Maybe alter their spell repitoire a bit to give them a bit more finesse in their battles. Conversely, they could be altered to more of a warrior direction. Give them some subtle improvements to tanking (it really is pathetically sad)... maybe not as big as dodge but maybe an improvement on shield block or parry or something. Additionally, maybe give them something like the orc's enslave ability for some ability to rescue and a little extra damage. Finally, give them something that lags through protections with the moderate effectiveness of something like pincer. Just some thoughts, I think i've killed enough time now...

I agree with alot of what you said. I think what would be even better though if the player had the choice which direction the AP's skills went. More warrior like or mage like, but always a mix. This way races other then firegiant/duergar will be useful. I think all the unique AP skills should be kept. The others replaced. And maybe tweek World-bind a little bit. Make it more interesting against conjurers for instance. My first character Thragg was a fire giant AP who didn't practice trip because I had bash Also thought Sleep, energy drain, and teleport were useless spells because on my first mud they sucked. So I'm a little partial to AP's.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

Changes on that sort of scale always seem to go a bit wrong. One of the paths would likely be far more powerful or useful and we'd end up with some sort of situation reminiscent of the early arcane/shifter division. I sort of like their spell selection (with the exception of sleep), good half-mage sort of stuff aside from deafen and worldbind. I could see those becoming a lot more dangerous with spellcraft. Add a few new key skills/spells (such as the knife/bind/cheap shot change to thieves) and tone down a few of their current set (such as when Zulghinlour mentioned weakening the unholy blessing specials a bit) and I think you have a much more playable class.

Well played Stargher. I knew right away it was you.

Having played some APs... My comments.

>1. The new blessing...sucks. Instead of getting no soul from
>someone how about maybe half normal? Because the negative
>*FAR* outweighs the positive as it is.

I believe you. I take old way any time.

>2. Iron grip...ok, if someone can dispel my physical
>transformation, let me dispel shapeshifters back to human.
>There is one good reason there will never be an a-p of truly
>monstrous proportions for long, any thief/transmuter combo
>can kill them with just bj, dispel, fumble. The time I was
>slept at the archmage by the bard was just sad.

I kept bugging Imms about it. It's just does not make sense.
Balance issue I suppose. Big pile of BS overwise.


>3. Unholy weapons...make them harder to destroy based upon
>the souls in them. Maybe make it necessary to have a paladin
>untaint it, or harm the people that destroy it...something.

You are being silly here. Or not serious. I do not see any need for such change at all.

>4. Aura of despair...not overly useful and can be very
>deadly if you need to run quick anywhere near anything
>"natural", maybe make it like the deshield command...

Do not use it then. Plain and simple. It can be dispelled btw.

>5. Defense...or lack there of. Extra weapon or a shield is a
>terrible choice to have to make when you can't dodge,
>especially when you're a giant and can't carry those extra
>few items like shields. Hey, our prime advesary are those
>sanctuaried paladins who wrath alot....dodge isn't much to
>ask.

True. But this is why you have wands skill.
Thank Arolin and Aether for screwing things. I do not really care now.
Prepared pal vs prepared ap ? My bets are on AP.

>6. In general...a great class to play at times, not a
>character for any real solo work except some prepped
>wetworks.

Too many classes have ways to counter APs strategies.
Too many classes have ways totally screw AP with not much he/she could to do to prevent it.

To sum it up - APs are quite screwed on high ranks right now.


P.S. To Gorach: APs do not have protective shield.

>>3. Unholy weapons...make them harder to destroy based upon
>>the souls in them. Maybe make it necessary to have a paladin
>>untaint it, or harm the people that destroy it...something.
>
>You are being silly here. Or not serious. I do not see any
>need for such change at all.

Despite being serious or silly, look at feasability. How would they keep track of which souls were in it?

P.S. To Gorach: APs do not have protective shield

Damn .. anyways, we do agree on the fact that a prepped ap can rip through almost every of his opponents, no ? Me thinks Ap's are quite good as they are *grin*

From what little I interacted with you, I liked your char. Hope your breather is refreshing. good luck on your next char. =P

-Cerc-

To the people that got me that last time, well done. Was scrolling back to look at a fight I just had with Alysrith and come back to see me dying. Was just like "Damn." That's the way the wind blows. No this isn't a rage delete, or at least not in the typical sense. I'm rather pissed about the unholy blessings actually. There is a total of four people I got more then one soul for, while there was over thirty with no soul...no exact number, I just stopped counting. I was going to delete him quite a few times from the mid-thirties to the mid-forties, was getting my ass worked over real good. Stuck it out, got some souls, some axes sacraficed, and alot of down time. Thanks to Zulghinlour for only laughing a little bit when I came looking to learn control unholy blessing, felt like the biggest idiot ever forgeting to practice it. Over all feelings on this character...not one of my favorites. Playing Karel was alot more fun, even if it was more boring at times from lack of people. Orinah was a better fighter and defense...but again, he was even more boring just from lack of things to do after awhile. This is my first hero in...I think about eight who has not gone down into Hell (that is a hint to the imms...).
Farewells...well, most people I said farewell to in my posts as Orinah or Mordan...to those who ranted on Stargher and praised on Orinah in your posts (you know who you are)...well, isn't that just funny? Not sure about rolling another character, think I'm about on the verge of burn out...maybe a breather is in order. Until the next one people.

There are a few people I do want to specifically mention.

Zefarah, sorry dear, no more Mortorn for us. I tried talking with you more this time around...but there is a small difference in our interests. Shame I didn't get to give you that massage...

Kalraak, you are still you hell of a beast. You'll be back to normal before long no doubts.

Amora, was fun hunting and learning with you, although if you noticed near the end I stopped hunting with you...you just took every kill and when there's so many people that don't give any souls I needed what I could get.

Dranolian, always nice to have a transmuter with, except the cryptic talk and such could go, you gave me a headache listening most times.

Dwoggurd, you're a good warrior to have around, glad you been showing more lately.

Bards...ya, no comments.

Paladins...see above.

It was fun. Enjoyed our fights. Orinah was tougher.
I can understand you wanting to take a break. I was about ready to put my head through my computer screen last week. Stay away for a few weeks.

Take care.

Actual, I do have a comment for you. You were a good advesary, and the whole dwarven paladin with pwent gear is insane. Had you slept and couldn't cast a damn thing on you. Keep it up...although to be honest I won't wish you stay alive of course...

I must be transparent to you. Your farewell for Orinah said nothing,
nor did this one. Oh well. I knew it was you the first time you spoke
to me. I guess it was just your demeanor. Actually, it was your
way of talking about game knowledge that really pointed it out.

Anyway, you are definitely a skilled player, but you seem to have lost
the will to go for a more RP oriented character. Maybe try a healer?

I'll miss you regardless. G'luck with whatever.

Bizarro I'm helping!

Sorry, thought I said something in Orinah's. Your good for the seat you fill, your speech, demeanor, acts...all very chancellor like. Typically I don't like chancellors....come to think of it, I've never really liked any evil leaders, even mine. Likely because they play it so well. Then again, simply can't stand the goodies. As for the RP and healer...well, no, I didn't actually have any Rp for this character nor did I really plan to, I wan't to see what kind of axe I could make, and frankly, with blessing like it is now, won't be making an a-p again. I've had four healers, two of which were tattooed, one of which I think was perhaps one of my best pkers ever, had a blast with him. Who knows what I'll go with next, I've played em all except the new thieves. Just keep your eyes out for me...er...eye.

What can I say .. perhaps first and all sorry for the billions of times I bitched on you in the game .. but that be part of Gorach's role .. ask Wasarbre :-p ..
I knew I had to kill you as much as possible before you got to hero ranks, because then you would just rip me apart in 'normal' fights (one on one): getting bashed is a real pain in the ass if you can hardly parry axes .. I know this from fighting lots of AP's with past characters .. and yes only one song really works against fire AP's..
Only real time I had actually a good laugh was that time at the chasm when you were together with that arcane who probably spelled you up and I was sitting there at the nightwalker calling you wussie and all .. and then you just ran in while I was resting while you probably spammed 'bash bash bash' .. and I had the time to sing the fiend for you ..
For the rest .. I will be keeping me horn just a bit longer now eh ..

Good luck to you.

I remember that fight. Actually, I went up and hit murder gorach...but my connection is not what it once was and alot of times I get that two second pause that just annoys the hell out of me.

Not much to say except thanks for beating the hell out of me. Several IC friends noticed that you were stomping me, and began helping me with some tactics that I'm starting to get better at. It's a shame ya gone now I was gonna try something on ya soon. Oh well hope ya had fun beatin my arse all over Thera.

Good Luck on ya next.

My favorite fight was when I was behind the Inn practicing frightful fiend and you walked into it. Ya ripped through the thing in 2 rounds though and then I was in trouble. I think that was the closest I was to killin ya and I barely had ya gushin.

Or the couple of times that I put ya to sleep and just ran like hell...

-Dranolian, always nice to have a transmuter with, except the cryptic talk and such could go, you gave me a headache listening most times.

Had you picked out before you were even hero. Think it was the playing time that got me. I can not think of anyone I rather hunt with. Worked well but I agree no charges suck. Was pissing me off that we finally find someone summon them and mess them up and nothing. There may be more charges but how often do people like me die? I am currious when you said very good are we looking at +15 like Zulghinlour mentioned?

And the cryptic talk is my attempt and some RP.

-Dranolian

The most charges I got were from yourself, Wasarbre, Huraz and Kalraak. All worth two. Granted, better then one and world better then none, but I surely never saw five, ten anf fifteen I would have creamed myself pardon the language.

For some reason I didn't realize you were Orinah while you were playing him. Now, with Stargher, I had you pegged almost right away. It gets kind of obvious, though not in a bad way. A shame you deleted, it was interesting pking with you, though you almost never got a charge from our kills.

Ya, charges were always the problem. The weak ones a get killing blow and no charge...other ones I whack away on and someone kills em with one mauling slice...ugh. Was more interesting with you down in the trenchs this time.

I always love it when you find out the relationship ooc-wise of characters that were played by the same person. You inducted me as Orinah and though I never got to know the Invoker (probably because I was so low in level at that point in time) I remember gaining quite a lot of my levels with you and amora. Was nice having a reliable group that seemed to rank in the same hours as me...can't tell you how annoying it can be when a groupmate has to go 20 minutes into grouping. I think we pulled off 2 hour leveling sessions..hehe.

I hope your finish your breather and pick up that mouse and keyboard. Good luck with your next.

Eryintha, lady of crimson

P.s. Wish my playing time lately hadn't been so sparse...didn't get to group with you much at all for the hero ranks.

Aw man... no more iceballs to watch out for. Now who is my thief gonna die to on a regular basis? LoL anyway, another good char. Liked you and Orinah. Take a break, and come back, enemy or not.

--SIG
Two wrongs dont make a right, but three rights make a left

Well I have to say I'm sorry to see you go. Thought you were going to be around for a while still but I guess when you're on as much as you were you grow old pretty fast. Also, sorry to have killed that one with a punch but it was pretty funny. Hope to meet up with your next at some point. Having summon and some powerful fighting skills is a pretty deadly combo, especially with the likes of someone like me tagging along. Anyway, I've said enough...take care

-Aljern

Always fun to have a trannie with, especially one who's up for anything, even more then I am. So and so is here. Well let's bust in and kill him. Play hard, but play smart, let the warrior types hit first...

The chasm needs you, play a necro so you still get summon...that'll be a roleplaying challenge.

-Aljern

>Thanks to Zulghinlour for only
>laughing a little bit when I came looking to learn control
>unholy blessing, felt like the biggest idiot ever forgeting
>to practice it.

I was sitting there thinking, what the hell does Stargher want? Then you said that, I laughed out loud. As soon as you said it I knew the price I wanted (of course it had been so long since I used leech and control I had to cast them a few times to get it right )

So, was it worth it?

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

I'm curious to what exactly happened...? Sounds amusing and since he's dead and gone, possible to get the details?

Shadow1ife

Yes...I remember you laughing. Like I said, if it wasn't me, I would point and laugh too. For a moment wasn't sure it was actually you with the way you were fumbling through those spells...right until you asked for my axe, figured it was you then. Was it worth it? Mmm...controls are nice...have only 50% chance of doing it can be a pain. Few times I lost my concentration like six times in a row, 150 mana per screw up, I spent alot of time sleeping. Besides, the axe you leeched wasn't that good anyway. To address the post below...details. I forgot to practice control unholy blessing somehow. Hero, no practices, was thinking I was fairly screwed. Zulghinlour upped my skill to fifty percent in exchange for leeching my axe...which did hurt a bit considering it only had five or six souls in it.

I knew it was coming, with the unholy blessing the way it is now I was suprised you stayed as long as you did. It seems to me that the new unholy blessing works on how good their pk ratio is (Maybe thats not all but it seems that way). So now you not only have to find someone and get the final hit, now you have to kill a goodie/rager with a good pk ratio? Now repeat this mutiple times and don't die Riiiiiight...

Yeah I thought it was hillarous all the people ragging on Stargher and praising Orinah too, I knew it was you like the first time I talked with you.

Anyways I know you'll be back soon, can't wait to see what ya roll up next.

I'm coming to get you man! You better watch out!

"The hills are alive with the sound of mus.... CRYING!"

email me man,
aborton@attbi.com

Aaron

I actually didn't call this one as being you, though Orinah was obvious to me. Thanks for the random gear you'd hand me from time to time, and for helping me hero.

Alaenyth was never sure what to think of you. You were around a good bit, but sometimes you'd just run off with Zefarah or something and then other times I'd be passing through Hamsah and see you a ghost. (Not that I don't die my fair share).

Try a shaman.

Good luck.

I was always very anti-Stargher because of a couple of instances where you appeared to quit to avoid consequences. However, I didn't post this ooc and I guess if you had a bad link that might explain it. Still mocked you a lot IC for disappearing like that though.

You had a few lucky escapes when we had numbers on our side but failed miserably to co-operate effectively. I can remember wrathing you after catching you, with the result that it woke you from cold be sleep when I was expecting a fiend. Then there was a time that Astarcio came swooping down and did the same not realising you were slept. Then another paladin did the same mistake as me. In fact, you were probably better off with all the paladins around than without them. heh.

As far as APs versus paladins go, I MUCH prefer APs, though I've not played one since the changes, but I always found that once I got wands I never died to them. Thing I like about APs that I miss with Paladins is the lagging skills. And the preps. And the right to say what you think.

I had a feeling you were Karel though. I won't comment further on that, except to say that maybe Orinah got better reviews because he fought alone more?

How the hell do you get arcanes to take the hits for you when you used protective wands and they had no real protections? I can remember putting demolishes and devastates on your pet arcanes, two of whom barely escaped the first neuro disruption alive, and then doing mutilates to you. There's no way I'd be neuro'ing people for you without you letting me use your protections if I had none.

Only remember fighting you twice, and I only logged of once due to the power flow. There was fifteen goods, one nexan, me and...I think either Zefarah or Dranolian, not sure which it was. I thought about for about five seconds said screw it, go rent a movie. The arcanes that were with me...well, they were eager and would just hit the disruption before I got in whatever my attack was. As I could not rescue they were up front until they decided to move. Preperations...paladin has sanctuary, a-p has to find a barrier wand, one he can get alone if he wants to keep having a barrier wand. Shield, aura and stoneskin....potions for all three. Both have protection, only one has healing. Granted, I love worlrdbind, but considering it's cost, and being a fire giant who has too have the lowest mana pool, you fail once or twice that's it. I'd still put money on the paladin, especially when most just spam wrath so they can't be slept and run as soon as they're blind. I do enjoy playing a-ps more however.