Thu Sep 20 01:59:02 2018

At 4 o'clock PM, Day of the Sun, 34th of the Month of the Sun
on the Theran calendar Kadavarn perished, never to return.

I started this char after deleting Maladay. Maladay was great character for Inferno trips. Unfortunately the hell trips dried up due to anathema of the healer and deletion of the trip leader. I did not feel like playing a warrior underdog in Empire. So I made Kadavarn, a char I could play no matter what the power balance was. This char became very enjoyable at SL tier. Shadow sect generally get some ordinary powers, except the last power which is insanely good.

Assassins require a bit of patience, I had many failed assassinates. My big regret is one time in the fortress (I was hidden in there for an hour) and 4 fort inside and they did not know I was there. Drissa was talking to an imm away from the watcher and I was botting assassinate Drissa (35 stalks) and somehow Drissa walked past to the watcher and then quit out there (so unlucky to not get the attempt).

I have already had a bitch and moan about Dhuzir, so will change focus here.

Why not remove the anathema command from mortals? Give the sect leaders/Emperor the ability to demote you all the way to bloodoath or black list, or something similar like that. Then hard code various anathema triggers for people in this new bloodoath tier. Such as killing vanquisher, inner guardians, killing empire, joining an enemy cabal etc. The Empire imms keeping the ability of course. This way when you at this tier, bloodoath or black list then it comes down to the roleplay between you and the other empire as to whether they attack you or you work together (ie treat you like a base citizen or oath) against fortress etc. You have the option of working your way back in via the person who demoted you or his superior/replacement.

The Emperor can black list you and tell all empire to hunt you, that’s fine, but then that person can at least try to negotiate with other sect leaders, perhaps to overthrow the empire. As it currently stands, all empire must attack you on sight, sort of a bit stupid really. There are very minimal options available as it stands. As a general gaming rule of thumb, game masters don’t allow the players the power to permanently destroy other players.

But I don't play tabletop Sesame Street... Players can intentionally or unintentionally kill/cause hell for each other all the time in the games I have played and run. Player v. Player conflict (even on the same side) makes the GM/DM's life easier as they don't have to provide 100% of the strife. I hate to say it, but if you don't like it, there are other Seaseme Street games where everone plays Patty Cake nicely and together out there.

You need PC-held Damocle's sword to truly fear council members. And induct none is just that.

You should be emperor. WINK WINK

I've played several Imperials over the years, and had more than one Emperor (and Anathema).

I get what you're saying. Being an Anathema can really suck.

But here are a few reasons that the current system works:

Effort vs. Reward
A common refrain in IMMland is that Empire is "easy in, easy out." You can get inducted into Empire and access to basic sect powers using a completely automated system, without any vetting from anyone.

You can then get promoted (and gain access to more powers) with help from any of several people.

It usually isn't very difficult. Getting "Elite" is often a little bit tougher. Getting Sect leader, with its associated strong power and leader con, can be difficult or incredibly easy, depending on the makeup of the sect at the time.

The tradeoff is that it's possible this will all be taken away at any time, so you need to exude loyalty and make yourself useful. It's the one cabal where players really are in control (within certain, broad boundaries). It's a unique dynamic - the dark side of the free market in CF.

Anathema Is Not The End
If you're a powergamer who made a character with the sole intent to use Empire numbers or powers to gank everyone or explore hell, then yeah, maybe this would ruin your character. But you have only yourself to blame. Anathema has been part of Empire literally for decades, so you've always been on notice. Maybe the problem isn't the cabal - it's that your goals are too narrow and rigid.

But here's a concept I want to impress upon you: Anathema is not the end. If you see your character as a story, you can use the experience to develop it.

You can become a bitter exile or an active hunter of Imperials. Some Anathema have come back and become Emperor. It's not without some risk, pain or effort, but it can be fun if you allow it to be.

There's even a religion that is partially devoted to people like Anathema. *shameless plug*

There Are Alternatives
There are other cabals (or even uncaballed roles) that can accommodate exploration just as well - if not better. Another cabal, in particular, has a power that in my opinion is absolutely unrivaled for exploration.

So if Anathema worries you so much, why don't you just go elsewhere?

To echo some of the other thoughts, but with my own personal touch, I wouldn’t want to see mortals lose anathema unless we’re entirely re-working Empire to: 1) weaken all the powers, 2) make it imm-induction only based on more elite performance, 3) reduce the maximum number of players allowed in it.

That isn’t to say I want those things either, but that’s the sort of stuff I would want traded off if the easy-out of Empire is removed. It’s a cabal you can easily get into, and potentially easily get some pretty sick powers. That has a trade off. Kstatida called it the ‘sword of damocles’, which I like both for the reference and because it conveys the feeling you should have in the Empire. You should be in fear that someone will just kick you out willy-nilly, it’s central to the cabal RP.

As Rahsael said as well, anathema isn’t the end unless you have heavy expectations that “I get into the cabal I want, I get the powers I want, all without downsides”. Anathema is tough, but there is stuff you can do while anathema. Alternatively, to avoid the risk, avoid Empire.

-Ish

I agree with both of you in regards to the spirit here.

Easy in, easy out for sure.

I think we can still have easy in and easy out without being the sworn enemy of Empire. Uninduction with Exiled flag, allowing the players to decide if attack you or treat you like an outsider but not an enemy. Seems kind of forced and hinders roleplay opportunities.

For those anathemas that try to get back in, they hold all the values of the empire, kind of does not fit the definition of "anathema". In my case, I did not take that path, perhaps I need to back myself more, I guess I figured I can't be disappointed if I don't try.

There is a healer anathema that is a better roleplayer than me trying to get back in for months. So it seems like a hard path.

The other issue with the ability to anathema without defendable cause is it's very easy to do so for OOC bias. Generally speaking now, say you're Emperor and you have an old friend playing an assassin who wants to be Shadow Lord. Just a bit too easy. I wouldn't do that, but you know, some people are ####s.

>The other issue with the ability to anathema without
>defendable cause is it's very easy to do so for OOC bias.
>Generally speaking now, say you're Emperor and you have an old
>friend playing an assassin who wants to be Shadow Lord. Just
>a bit too easy. I wouldn't do that, but you know, some people
>are ####s.

I don't think that was ever a case. On the contrary, most imperials are played by normal ppl and therefore gtuve much more leeway to their subordinates than it would be wise RP-wise.

Thing is, not even getting reprimanded for bad imperial behavior is the norm, because we don't want to ruin someone else's experience. And then when imperials decide to stick by the RP and demote/anath, they're suddenly considered assholes. You being bitter doesn't mean they are wrong, it often means you expected too much.

P.S. In your case though, I think Dhuzir has made a mistake, but you should know that it happened because you were slandered by other characters. Now that all of you deleted it's safe to say that, I guess. Being set up by your associates is also an important part of imperial politics, if you're not fine with that - then the Empire will continue to disappoint.

The Empire isn't fair, and that's by design.

When you decide to play an Imperial, it's fine to aspire to make sect leader or emperor, but you need to make peace with the idea that you're going to end up an anathema. If you don't, consider it a happy surprise.

Anathema is not the end of a character. You really must get OUT of that mindset. It's an opportunity for role playing. I've had numerous imperials eat anathema but through RP I worked my way out of it and BACK INTO EMPIRE. And this is ME. According to some other players I'm a "####ing retard." So if a ####ing retard can make it happen, I'm sure others can too. Do you want to know the secret? It's really simple, honestly. But it seems like lots of layers have a problem with it. Here is it, the ultimate secret: don't complain, and try hard. Now it's not going to work out in your favor EVERY time, but I guarantee you if people do those two things they will see their characters going MUCH farther.