' That's true, but then, cleave isn't unlike an anti-paladin
version of the backstab ability. There is a precedent here. '

I personally wouldn't go as far as considering Cleave to be related to the backstab still. Cleave is an opening skill which can cause a potential side-effect to the target, in the same manner as quite a few other skills of other physical classes can do, and most notably those of the warrior weapon specs. I thus don't think you can call Cleave a precedent because of this, but more the Anti-Paladin variant of a sword/axe spec so to speak. The ranks at which Anti-Paladins actually recieve their new weaponskills (such as Faceslash and Lashes of the Slave, which were designed to be alternatives to Cleave) suggests this even further as they largely fall on the same ranks as the various specs of the warrior class do. And I personally don't believe much in coincidence and randomness there where IMMs were known to be involved.


' Not really. I think anti-paladins learned teleport as a bail-me-out spell, as which it does quite well. They can already scatter groups with the best of them, given that they have charge of the morosa, and their area damage spells are nothing less than impressive. '

I don't understand - if you already think that highly of the A-P ability to scatter groups as it is now, then why exactly are you suggesting that they recieve yet another skill capable of performing the very same thing? Aura of Pain from its part wouldn't be about scattering groups, but to make the Anti-Paladin a bit more infamous in direct open combat, both when fighting one opponent or when under attack by multiple opponents. They could really use it.

By the way, remember that Charge of the Morosa for example needs to meet certain noteable conditions for it to work at its best (having Aura of Despair up isn't always just one big joyride for an A-P), there where your Skullsmash skill on the other would be working at an unchanged efficiency regardless of circumstance. In other words, Charge of the Morosa definately comes with its drawbacks even though it's quite useful in many situations. Skullsmash on the other hand, in being a Blackjack clone, doesn't seem to have any of these drawbacks which raises a few balance issues in my opinion, and creates the risk that it will render Charge of the Morosa, a much more Anti-Paladin'esque type of skill, second-rate or underused.

As for the three (fine, four) A-P elemental attackpells, I'm in agreement with you.


' (deafen and worldbind are staggeringly strong, and they certainly are best used with sleep when possible). '

Yep. Aura of Pain would basically have the same spirit as these spells by the way. Sinister, powerful black magic used to enhance the chances of the Anti-Paladin or, if you like, reduce the chances of the opponent. It would just work a little bit more indirect.


' That their *skills* reflect brute force is a good point, and that's why I suggested "skullsmash" because frankly that is pretty much brute force. '

Where is the presumed difference between our views on how an Anti-Paladin works then, exactly? I told you, I too think that the brutality and the brute force should mainly come from their physical attacks, and that the support and evasive aspects should mainly come from their black magic. Aura of Pain would follow this view just as well by the way.

Well, while in principle your Skullsmash skill would seem to be brute force (the name of the skill itself strongly hints it actually), that doesn't take away that what you suggested is in its essence a knock-out attack. Knocking opponents out blackjack-style is more a subtle tactic for CF standards, not a brute force attack. That won't change just cause it'll do an EVISCERATE as it hits the target or because it has a name like 'Skullsmash'.


' I don't see any particular reason for this. In fact, thinking expressly in terms of what an anti-paladin guildmaster would think, I imagine they'd rather have something more reliable than sleep, don't you? Even a dark-elf antipaladin would probably get more use out of skullsmash, and let's face it, there are a lot more fire giant an duergar anti-paladins out there who would just LOVE to do this. '

There truly is no doubt that something more reliable than the sleep spell would be very welcome among all Anti-Paladin players, myself certainly included, but before going further into that subject I'm going to wait and see what the promised new Power Words will be capable of doing. As I've stated in my original post, I wouldn't be surprised if the upcoming Power Words ment to replace the Necromancer spellset turn out to actually deal with that problem already. But for now, I think we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

As for the Fire Giant and Duergar remark, Fire Giants and Duergars are already the two races that have so far enjoyed the most benefits of the Anti-Paladin skillset. There are six, count them, six other Anti-Paladin races out there that in my opinion deserve to be thrown a bone far more than they are. I've been playing for about 2 years now and I'm still waiting to see the first Arial A-P hero. Fire Giant and Duergar A-P at hero ranks I've already seen quite a few times.