Unless the helpfiles are wrong, he's wrong about some of the thief skills:

Grapple - it's a free hit which is the same thing an orc gets, but they at least get savage feeding. Don't you think a thief would have some more finesse so they don't get hit trying at least, but hit when successful? Pretty risky if it fails which happens quite a bit.

- according to the helpfile, doesn't this leave their weapon in your hand? That's not the same as orc grapple. The fact you can combine it with a more unexpected attack makes it more powerful.

Separate - alright, it's the trap thieves isolate but why can't it work on solo people. Sure it's meant to separate people, but most people will just walk right in and join in. Yes, there are times this isn't possible, but I think this should be more like a super push on one person into another room.

- haven't you seen how powerful this skill is for walking people into traps? Someone used it to take out groups of three.

Death strike and strike of the abandoned - alright, no offense, but this skill which a thug thief waits for is quite the joke. It's a normal hit, if that, that continues the fight if someone flees or dies.

- is it a normal hit? I've seen one in a log where it is a damn powerful hit.

Don't you think it should have some sort of side effect or at least do more damage or multiple hits? The times they come up which are extremely rare, it can't be used like other skills, and should have a huge benefit which in reality it's nothing at all.

- Agreed it will be fairly rare. That does make it a fairly weak skill imho.

I think the same thing was said about Mercy the Typhoon since it seems to have the same effect - or lack of.

- mercy might have other uses, but agreed, the one I saw seemed quite weak.

Earclap - The deafen for a short time is their finally ability, but can be stopped by the right headgear (least I think so). Now, I can see a use or two for this in the right situation but maybe bring the damage above a mutilate - you'd think it'd stun or do bleeding or something. Yes, I know, you're going to ask how can I bitch about a deafen ability but it's quite risky for a thief to go barehanded for such an attempt.

- It's not that risky for a thief to go barehand against a solo mage. Against a group, maybe, but against a solitary mage who doesn't have an army of necros?

Parting block and cheap shot is pretty much the only reason people even take this path, and the abilities of this thief don't even compare with a trap/poison/thiefy style thief in "coolness" factors (yes, I just said coolness factors). I guess the reason I bring this up, is the abilities above cheap shot and parting block aren't just...well encouraging to take. Sure if you gear like crazy and catch people so you can trip them to death, you'll win a fight or two but anyone that gets to parting block can do the same thing. Strike on the abandoned, death strike, earclap, seperate and grapple just don't seem like they match up. Could someone at least look at these and compare and see if they match up?

- I agree on this. I'd move things like cheapshot up the list so that specialists get it. I'd move things like strike on the abandoned, etc down the list. I'd keep separate, grapple, and earclap where they are.

Sure, when I played my trap thieves, everyone said they were overpowered and people started playing them.

- can I point out that they were bugged when you played one? I was playing one already at that stage. When you played one, if I'm not mistaken, weapontrip took all their moves. That's overpowered. You make it sound like it was your uber-skill that was causing the problems.

Same for poison thieves, since they have some real nasty tricks that are just being shown.

- and again, these are bugs and oversights. Making guildmasters move so that you can get into a guild is one thing. Making them move so that they stop people fleeing when they are not near their guilds is a bug.

> Binder thiefs...eh, well, if you got friends they're nasty but besides that not really since the bindings fail a lot and they can be broken easily.

- I'd make untieing level dependent, so a lowbie basically has v little chance of untieing a high level thief's knots.

Galadon thieves have got steal down good which is really nice also, but thug thiefs...how many have been played that went past parting block? Not very man and you don't see them stick around much - just trying to spread the loving and try and shed some like on at least strikeabandon/deathstrike ineffectiveness for how often they get used and maybe think about some tweaks to separate/grapple/earclap.

- I agree on this. I think if cheapshot was moved up the list, more people would make thuggish thieves.


Beast