>You said here even at the low levels trip still fels horribly
>unfair to you when your on the thief side of things. yes, I
>agree. but even with the things I saw it carried over far into
>the upper ranks too. all those misses in the lower/mid 40's.
>As per necromancers, they cant keep fly up for life. they dont
>have to. Trip is going to lag someone for two rounds. If, and
>truly only if they havent spam walked, they are going to
>flee/quaff a potion of flying.

Maybe. A lot of times people won't live through the two rounds if you do it right. If they do live, do flee and quaff exactly as you said? Assuming they don't run afoul of an unlucky flee, parting block, cheap shot, or a dozen other things? If all of that's true and you think you can't win?
Then you get to just hide. The fight's over and the necromancer's done. You had a chance to kill them, and they had ZERO chance of killing you.

ugh this is going to get to be a long post, sorry, but eh. At low levels, yes they are going to live through two rounds easily, unless you are decked. at level 30 having over 600+ hp isnt hard. I was over that at level 20, but I had some eq given to me by future cabal mates, and a loot that had some health eq in it. A thief doesnt have enhanced damage till level 25. at level 32 it will be 100 or close to it. Dressed for damage and lets say he has a 50 damroll. necromancers will still have parry, and a ton of hp, and the pets. If they are too hurt to continue, I wouldnt bother with quaffing as the necro, just word. Heal with teh healer of it was close by, then use a potion of flying, fog a bit, try to get him out and etc. Chances are he will try considering i wouldnt have my army with me at that time. Cheap shot didnt go off much at all, but it was only 87. I also didnt have it till about level 36 because it was on a second path to the one I had. I also didnt have parting block. Again different path of thief than I was, and when I did take thug, only went up to cheap shot. Assuming they do flee, they would have to be hurt, which a necromancer knows your weapons, and all my chars but my shifters have most weapons perfected by level 20, as well as defenses. 'Every little bonus, is still a bonus', and I know other players that still do the whole practice thing. As a necromancer its invaluable to them outlasting through lags, and their damages.

>fight. level 32. and if you can look at the wands he had. I
>know from sitting there stealing from him he had all three at
>level 32.

Having and being able to use are two different things.
Look at dio's. The logs there.

>A thief just isnt going to kill a
>necromancer even without pets/flying, etc. I am not saying its
>not probable, just not likely.

A crappy thief isn't, no. One of the deadliest characters currently existing is a thief and I assure you they've killed a metric ass pile of necromancers.

The only other thief besides faior and the one that could haggle etc was a villager thief made leader. I wasnt exactly impressed. Took thug path up though so did have parting block. If he killed necros, they were likely petless, which was stupid of the necros, not anything the thief did that was great. to note however, resist/scouts critical strike, goes a looong way.

>I on teh other hand have had the other forms. To me it is
>worthless compared to the fox, the hyena, and the snake. Most
>of my shifters have been double utility. in every scenario I
>can think of except for chasing someone, I would rather have
>any other utility form. #### I would rather have almost every
>other fourth tier form, and even some third tier forms in most
>cases.

Sorry, here you're just on crack.
No, I would honestly prefer this. I wouldnt mind some crack though if you have some spare

>Eh. I would get speckleds because I can geta few at a time
>with 1 item, and the healing is lagless. The potions and the
>like I used to use when I gathered them were also of healing,
>but there is a lag to quaff. There isnt with eat. There are
>also no negative effects to the pill. I would rather 20 pills
>on me than a healer.

Crack crack crack crack crack. I'm too surly and full of red wine to refute this more logically.

Except for the last line, this is a statement of fact. The healing IS lagless, and no negative effects. A few CAN be gotten with 1 item. Potions on the other hand, DO have lag.

>Anti-gang code: You don't understand and I'm not interested in
>explaining it right now.

>I wrote it much more to point out that as long as a mob is
>with any party, the anti-ganging code doesnt work on them.
>That includes special guards, to which five people and 2
>special guards are not affected by the code, and the solo 1
>person they are ganging doesnt even get to see all the echoes
>before they die. There was more to the post but I dont feel
>like looking right now its 730, at my brothers house on his
>computer.

See above: You don't understand how this works, because nothing you said there resembles correct.

There are echo's recieved when the code works. there are none when it doesnt. This is a statement of fact to which I have seen. I understand how it should work, only telling you how it can be gotten around, by what I have seen and experienced.

>Level 32 mage dominating etc: If you think so, make a
>level-sitting level 32 mage and prove it.
>
>I think again it was razmorthin, and another necromancer, I
>think also a scion? forget name. They proved it for me. I dont
>know where wands are. They keep moving, and I keep not playing
>the game. I dont have a char now, but I do have a thought I
>just might make another before school starts for me on jan
>9th.

I don't think we've moved any of those wands in a few years.

I didnt play for a few years. I only knew a few wands then, and didnt remember where any were. Is why I did what I did to get them.

>Bash does not perm lag.

Saying bash doesn't perm lag is like saying ####ing doesn't make babies. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. If you're on the bad end of it, you take your chances.

I'm sorry, I usually dont weigh myself down to max weight as a class that can be bashed, and keep myself their size etc so they have a chance to perm-bash me. Keep in mind also, most people dont. If bash is a problem to someone, its find a way to nullify it/make it not matter, or keep dying to it and never learn. except for teh bash legacy/drive lag legacy, I dont have problems with bash. Soemtimes it does? doesnt seem that way to me. As both war/ap end of it, and teh bashed end of it, it misses much more than the lag even really seems worth it.

>At those levels
>with human pk range, being able to fight level 23's at 32. The
>23's bashes have even more chance to miss than the high miss
>rate it already has.

No.
Code was made at those lower levels to miss more with bashes. also fighting someone 9 levels higher.

>A necromancer at level 32 with I think
>can have a mummy, golem, and five zombies.

You think way ass wrong.

yes, meant three

>Though changed a
>few years ago that level couldnt have anymore elite storm
>giants, they can still have elite dwarven guards

They could still have storm giants. No change made there.

During when that change was made I had a necro and brought him up to spectre. deleted before got quest though. Necromancers couldnt just walk up to a level 51+ corpse and animate it anymore, the higher it was above their level, the less likely it was that they would be able to animate it. It is possible, I dont argue that, but the 20 min wait or however long it is, makes things like elite dwarven guard more worth it at level ~ 30.

>and can haste
>them all for free.

Why don't you explain the free haste to me, because I can think of some, but none you can do at that level.

A stave gotten with I believe it was 5 charges, been a few years since I could use it, but the certain tower where I got my wands has it. Fight for it, easily gotten, low level, and its aoe haste.

>five hasted mobs three of them higher level
>than the level 32, with a/b/s I am not worried about one
>warrior,

See above: You can't have the full wack at that level.

Ok, I am going through dio's. I gave the name razmorthin a few times over my post, but he was the level 51 scion conjurer. Damnit I cant remember either of those necromancers names or would do a search for them. its now 930 and still looking on the forums for that post.
if dont find it soon oh well will look another day, likely a few days from now when I come over here again adn tie up my brothers internet. If someone knows exactly which post it was it was three people ganging a necromancer. A druid and two others specifically, if anyone knows which and can post it as reference to this. While it wont show the wands in the post, it will show how well protected the necro is

>even if it was a level 35 arial sword spec warrior
>that even was able to drive me away from my pets. Rager on the
>other hand just depends on how healthy I am before I flee,
>what mobs I have near to vampiric, his weapons, etc.
>Irreguardless on all of these, a necromancer that prepared in
>the mid levels can get away with ease. bash/trip doesnt do
>enough for a long fight

See, this is why I told you to play it... because your theories are based on about 20 things that aren't true. I can tell you they're not true, but somehow that isn't as eloquent as a random giant warrior bashing you down.

Sorry, but I wouldnt let giants bash me to begin with, unless they were wearing maces, or other crushing weapon that hit hard, then I would do else dependant upon weapon I am using at the time, etc, but I would nullify his ability to bash without even having to worry about it.