I largely agree with Zulghinlour on this. My major complaints:

1) This seems like a character you'd play in your spare time to map areas risk-free for the benefit of your 'real' character. Again, "risk-free" is secret code for "not going to be done".

2) This class doesn't break any new ground. It's a mish-mash of useful skills from several existing classes. I harp on this a lot, but that's fatal to any major undertaking of this kind in my opinion.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I agree that there are many duplicated skills listed here. I was not attempting to write an entire class, but rather give a feeling for what a new class may be. Considering the likely hundreds of class ideas I've posted on other forums and here, zero of which have been implemented, I have no delusions about the fate of this class. Nor do I hold any grudge for it, after all, why should you implement my idea when you have your own?

That said, I hope you take the spirit of the class and give it some consideration. I am sure I represent a large group players in that I have little time to mud anymore and prefer to find some less high paced activities to engage in. Personally, my favorite thing to do on CF is to perform quests and explore. I'm not overly interested in PK'ing, and RP'ing while sitting in one spot is unappealing also. Healers lack the strength to do much solo, exploring, and bards.. well, never played a bard for some reason (past 15 at least), but think they would be more of a sitting duck with no hiding abilities to speak of.

Anyway, I appreciate the effort you guys put into CF, so please don't take anything I post as attempting to 'fix' anything. Just passing time at work.

See you in the fields.

...Rome...

>Level 5:
>Skill: Marker (Create a marker in the room with them that only
>other adventurers can see, by looking at the marker
>adventurers can see writing left for them)

Interesting idea...but I'd see this for rangers before some new class.

>Skill: Adventurers Sense: Automatically gives feed back when
>scanning if a room has an aggro monster in it.

So you can avoid them? How is that exploring? You just "know".

>Skill: Rigorous Training (Adventurers can carry more than
>their max weight, but loose mvs faster when doing so,
>automatic)

I don't see what makes adventurers more apt for this as opposed to say, warriors.

>Skill: Grab (A less elegant form of stealing, a successful
>grab steals whatever item the adventurer was aiming for, but
>the target always is aware of the attempt, and in the case of
>mobs, becomes aggressive.)

Thieves already have something similar.

>Skill: Maneuver (Through their extensive training on defensive
>techniques, an adventurer is able to avoid special attacks and
>spells, sometimes. Often ducking behind others in the room,
>causing them to be struck.)

Their extensive training is no greater than warriors or rangers, and even less than assassins...so why do they somehow get to avoid special attacks now?

>Spell: Albinar’s Forgotten Slight (The first spell taught by
>the adventurer’s guild, this causes mob’s to forget their
>anger at the adventurer)

So when you forget to scan to see the aggro mob, you can now make him stop tracking you...where is the risk in exploring now?

>Spell: Escape (Returns you to a ‘starting point’ in the area
>you are in. Each area would have to have a room marked as the
>escape room. This can be used in no-recall areas.)

Even better...if somehow the #### hits the fan, you can just recall to the beginning of the area and be safe and sound. This will never happen.

>...Rome...

Basically this takes all the risk out of exploring, which means that it won't ever exist. The only thing missing here is cries of "more lag"!

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

>>Skill: Adventurers Sense: Automatically gives feed back when
>>scanning if a room has an aggro monster in it.
>
>So you can avoid them? How is that exploring? You just
>"know".

Fair enough.. bit of taking the fun out of stepping infront of a truck... but how about making something that lets you consider from a distance?

>>Skill: Rigorous Training (Adventurers can carry more than
>>their max weight, but loose mvs faster when doing so,
>>automatic)
>
>I don't see what makes adventurers more apt for this as
>opposed to say, warriors.

Lots of lugging around of packs. Warriors are built for power, where as this type would be build for endurance (mind you, carring around 500 lbs should really fall into the power category, but it's a game)

>>Skill: Grab (A less elegant form of stealing, a successful
>>grab steals whatever item the adventurer was aiming for, but
>>the target always is aware of the attempt, and in the case
>of
>>mobs, becomes aggressive.)
>
>Thieves already have something similar.

Yes, but their skills are better and more suited for what they need to do. The adventurer just needs to grab a key or special item once in a while. Think of it more as talking nicely to someone, buttering 'em up, then grabbing it and running. But I see your point about stepping on the toes of other classes.
>
>>Skill: Maneuver (Through their extensive training on
>defensive
>>techniques, an adventurer is able to avoid special attacks
>and
>>spells, sometimes. Often ducking behind others in the room,
>>causing them to be struck.)
>
>Their extensive training is no greater than warriors or
>rangers, and even less than assassins...so why do they somehow
>get to avoid special attacks now?

Don't think warriors or assassins would be trained in ducking behind other people. Thieves maybe. Maybe throw in a forced flee if it goes off. Definately would need some downside. Perhaps make it not automatic, so that you have to be watching for the right time to dive out of the way. *shrug*

>>Spell: Albinar’s Forgotten Slight (The first spell taught by
>>the adventurer’s guild, this causes mob’s to forget their
>>anger at the adventurer)
>
>So when you forget to scan to see the aggro mob, you can now
>make him stop tracking you...where is the risk in exploring
>now?

Getting one rounded by Tiamat. Seriously though, doesn't have to be absolute. Maybe it works better on mobs that are lower rank than you. High rank mobs just arn't affected. After all, they arn't really mages, no spellcraft. Also (not that this is really a point in favor of implementation), there are several other skills out there that mimic this type of ability (tame for one).

>>Spell: Escape (Returns you to a ‘starting point’ in the area
>>you are in. Each area would have to have a room marked as
>the
>>escape room. This can be used in no-recall areas.)
>
>Even better...if somehow the #### hits the fan, you can just
>recall to the beginning of the area and be safe and sound.
>This will never happen.

Again, not much different than vanish or teleport, just that it's controlled. Actually I would say it's less powerful than vanish since it's a spell and can't work in no-magic areas. If you still think it's unbalanced, throw in a no-recall area restriction to it also. Then it's really just a toned down version of word.

>Basically this takes all the risk out of exploring, which
>means that it won't ever exist. The only thing missing here
>is cries of "more lag"!

The idea wasn't so much to take the risk out of exploring, so much as to add to the interest in exploring.

The only real things I think that were needed for this type of class were the following:
-An ability to help avoid PK when exploring.
-Abilities to help fighting mobs (higher defenses, and some healing)
-Good identification skills.
-Rewards for exploring (additional skills coming with new experiences)

The last was the most important in my mind.

Thank you for your feedback.

...Rome...

Making a teleport controlled immensely adds to its power.

You can't vanish in a lot of places, pretty much those where you can't teleport.

Take it from someone who has vanished from just outside of Mortorn, and before getting to safety managed to vanish into the skeletal spider, the drow torturer, and Grazzur Ukal, that being able to control your landing point makes a big difference.

What about the trap thief idea I submitted?

Could this idea be tweaked to be workable?

n/t

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

#1 reason this wouldn't work: If this class existed, it would be so completely hard to make it to hero given they don't really offer ANYTHING past level oh, 14 from the skills/spells you list. Ever had that character (I'm thinking pre-20 conjurer here) that has a heck of a time gaining ranks because no one wants to group with you? This character without any higher level damage skills/spells or damage reduction would be the kid on the playground that didn't quite have the good kickball skills and always went to the last team that had a pick, whether they wanted him or not.

That being said: I don't like this idea simply because it's a combination of some of the better parts of a few classes, but doesn't really have anything restricting it: Ranger, Warrior, and...Transmuter? Rangers themselves can do a lot of what you have listed for this class, but can only do them, or do them better, in wilderness areas. Warriors get the attacks etc this guy would, but no spells. Transmuters get the spells, no attacks, etc. Also, some of the skills you have listed: Well, that sand throw one in particular, is WAY too powerful at such a low level. The only thing that compares to it, other than smoke abaishi in hell, is eyejab, and that has the restriction of being 1, a whip spec, and 2, using a whip or flail. Two ticks of physically inflicted blindness is quite powerful, especially to be having it at such a low level like you have it listed here (Think two ticks of blindness on a healer or archon. Practically would cripple those classes from the utility they have)

To me, if you wanted to make a true adventurer, then you make a bard, and play it like an adventurer, since the bard is really what this class calls for, a class that has a mix of skill and spell like abilities.

>Adventurer Guild – A guild specifically designed to promote
>exploring and teach skills related to survival. Not a whole
>lot of offensive options, but tough to kill from the
>beginning, and stays that way. Many cabal’s will not accept an
>adventurer because of their wandering natures.
>
>Skill: Mace
>Skill: Spear
>Skill: Sword
>Skill: Staff
>Skill: Whip
>Skill: Parry
>Skill: Recall
>Skill: Shield Block
>
>Level 3:
>Skill: Sand Throwing (Taking the dirt kicking art of the other
>guilds to a new level, the adventurer’s guild supplies it’s
>own special sand designed at producing prolonged eye trauma. A
>two tick dirt kick)
>
>Level 5:
>Skill: Second Attack
>Skill: Marker (Create a marker in the room with them that only
>other adventurers can see, by looking at the marker
>adventurers can see writing left for them)
>
>Level 6:
>Skill: Hand To Hand
>Skill: Fast Healing
>
>Level 8:
>Skill: Kick
>
>Level 10:
>Skill: Disarm
>Skill: Lore
>
>Level 12:
>Skill: Adventurers Sense: Automatically gives feed back when
>scanning if a room has an aggro monster in it.
>
>Level 13:
>Skill: Dodge
>Skill: Pathfinding
>
>Level 14:
>Skill: Haggle
>
>Level 15:
>Skill: Meditation
>Skill: Pugil
>Skill: Enhanced Damage
>Skill: Third Attack
>
>Level 16:
>Skill: Peek
>Skill: Sand Scatter (Automatically throw sand when fleeing).
>
>Level 18:
>Skill: Lash
>Skill: Rigorous Training (Adventurers can carry more than
>their max weight, but loose mvs faster when doing so,
>automatic)
>
>Level 20:
>Skill: Pen
>Skill: Grab (A less elegant form of stealing, a successful
>grab steals whatever item the adventurer was aiming for, but
>the target always is aware of the attempt, and in the case of
>mobs, becomes aggressive.)
>
>
>Level 21:
>Skill: Retreat
>Skill: Scrolls
>
>Level 22:
>Skill: Maneuver (Through their extensive training on defensive
>techniques, an adventurer is able to avoid special attacks and
>spells, sometimes. Often ducking behind others in the room,
>causing them to be struck.)
>
>Level 24:
>Skill: First Aid (Minor healing, and may remove some
>maladictions and bleeding. Can be used on others.)
>
>Level 25:
>Spell: Albinar’s Forgotten Slight (The first spell taught by
>the adventurer’s guild, this causes mob’s to forget their
>anger at the adventurer)
>
>Level 28:
>Skill: Pick Locks
>Spell: Escape (Returns you to a ‘starting point’ in the area
>you are in. Each area would have to have a room marked as the
>escape room. This can be used in no-recall areas.)
>
>Level 30:
>Skill: Advanced Lore (Automatic, when an object is lore’d it
>may also return the name of a mob who is currently holding the
>same object “Rumor has it that XXX also carries a YYYY”)
>
>Level 32:
>Spell: Mend Flesh (The guild hired a transmuter to share some
>of the secrets of repairing flesh with them. While not as good
>as a full fledged transmuter’s spell, this version is easier
>to cast.)
>
>Level 35:
>Skill: Adventurer’s insight (A skill that goes up every time
>an adventurer finds those hidden “exp” pockets that give you
>exp and mvs. The skill increases and is checked each time,
>when it succeeds, the skill is reset to 1%, and the adventurer
>gains a new ability from the list below) This would have to be
>tweeked so that a majority of your life would have to be spent
>adventuring in order to learn more than 3-4 of these skills.
>They would be picked randomly.
>
>Adventuer’s Insight Possible skills, (Level of skill)
>Skill, 35: Wands
>Skill, 35: Staves
>Skill, 40: Local Presence (If not in a main city or road,
>adventurer does not show up on where)
>Skill, 40: Survival (Can eat corpses, and other normally unfit
>body parts. Remains also satisfy thirst. Resists poison.)
>Spell, 40: Detect Secret (Allows the adventurer to see secret
>passages and other various hidden items)
>Spell, 45: Enchant Shield (Causes their shield to glow, can’t
>be knocked out of their hand or destroyed, and improves shield
>blocking)
>
>...Rome...
>