Were these changes meant to reduce warriors ganging (i.e. a bunch of lagging specs = death for just about anyone) or just ganging in general?

In general, particularly at the middle levels. I just added Pebble to Boulder for similar reasons.

Do you think classes like berserker, thief and A-P, all of which have bash and/or trip are going to suffer from these changes?

Only to the extent that the skills mentioned will work less well when they have a numerical advantage.

Also, if the idea is to get away from ganging people, why are some classes more geared to support rather then stand-alone power?

We're not forbidding ganging. Nor does playing a healer mean that ganging people is the core of your existence.

Does this mean these classes will be getting tweaked to be stronger on their own?

No.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Why not add disarm, and disarming abilities, to that list? It seems to
me that if there were several on one person, they'd just be struggling
to get a hit in, let alone go for their weapon.

Bizarro I'm helping!

Please don't tell me this affects the red-headed step-children.

Orcs have got it bad enough to lose their little ability to MAYBE kill someone. There's a log on Dio's right now showing 3 orcs getting owned by one sword specialist without evening a fight. Sure they could have done different things, but maybe make orc groups special? They need all the loving they can get. Hell, they're bred for gang-banging.

Beast

No, I have a little place in my heart for orcs. Their "grapple" skill
seems tailored for close-quarters, ugly combat. I say keep it at the
normal effectiveness, even if they are not in the front of the fight.
BUT, spinebreaker should get a huge penalty if you attempt to do it and
are not leading the fight. I'm not even sure that non-tanking orcs can
do it, but hey, might as well throw that out there.

Bizarro I'm helping!

I know that blackjack is already hard to land on fighting people...

but, that doesn't stop it landing on my chars when I am fighting about 90% of the time it is tried. I'd think that if someone was defending from multiple foes, it would be even harder to catch them at a moment when they aren't juking and moving about with their head.

As for knife and cheap shot...well...I would think it would be hard to slip in and put a knife into someone...or kick them when they are down....if you have to push your way past a couple giants/other pc's in order to get your chance.

Maybe don't lower the chance cheap shot will land if someone else is tanking for the thief...but maybe open up the thief for a retributive attack from the target...as the thief dashes between the target and the tank in order to get close enough to kick him.


"Death awaits ya all, wit nasteh big pointeh teeth!"

legsweep?

Seems like (a) it would be hard to legsweep someone with other people around them, and (b) it is a very similar skill to trip in its effect.

Say I'm fighting a fire giant fighting an elf on the road, the elf is tripping the bejiznits out of me, and all of the sudden a storm warrior (independant of the elf) comes along and decides to jump in with cranials. Is the chance of these skills lagging me reduced, since I'm fighting two people - or would it only be reduced if the elf and the storm were in the same group?

The code is concerned with who is fighting who, regardless of group. Likewise, grouped people who aren't assisting anyone don't count- they're assumed to be standing a little away from the fracas.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

>Were these changes meant to reduce warriors ganging (i.e.
>a bunch of lagging specs = death for just about anyone) or
>just ganging in general?
>
>In general, particularly at the middle levels. I just added
>Pebble to Boulder for similar reasons.

May we hope that other lagging abilities will be affected by anti-gang code. I refer to transmuters lagging/holding spells.

From my experience warrior + transmuter are as nasty permalaggers as two bashers.

I was thinking, perhaps misdirect and legsweep (especially misdirect) should be added to the list? Misdirect especially seems like it would be hard to do with other people getting in the way.