::the old empire was sort of a newbie cabal. take the bloodoath. answer a few questions and you're in. the new empire, it isn't as clear cut that you'll always be in. as i write this, i am thinking about the current empire and where it is heading. i see that the empire is growing, contrary to other people saying that a lot of people have deleted because of the antathema incident. the new empire wants the to acheive the same objective, promote order and civilization. does taking the sapling, chalice, or the head really promoting order and civilization? i can see why you need to defend if the other cabals raid, but is it really necessary to bring THE fight to other cabals? i don't know if it is the emperor that actually defines cabal policies, but rampant ganking and slaying of non-bloodoathes (especially neutrals) really promoting anything. i am not (trying not to anyways) ranting about empire. i want to see what people think about the new empire. (playes neutral characters 95% of the time)


As far as new vs old empire gank squads, this one is alot better. Less centurions, more time needs to be dedicated to donating, blah blah. As far as cabal politics, think of it this way. Empire is looking to create a global civilization, cities all over which would entail everyone being a citizen to make this perfect society work. So yes destroying the other cabals makes sense because they're not going to go away quietly and just say 'Ok guys, you win. You can have the world, do with us what you please.' They're going to fight for their beliefs etc. So yes, war on all cabals is definitely an eventuality. As far as promoting the Empire, it's just like any other cabal.. some people get it, some don't.. err most don't but like anything else.. people will learn.


Cheers.
Jhyrb.

> So yes, war on all cabals is definitely an eventuality.

Well, I would think subversion would be a viable option in many cases... gradually twisting other cabal's aims to suit their own. They can't succeed, of course, just like every other cabal can't actually succeed, but as far as their IC perceptions of what would work, fighting doesn't neccesarily need to be the only option.

Then again, one of them there vicious cycles is created in that it takes a warlike bastard to progress in Empire because that's who's already on top and they're going to promote people like themselves. This seems to be how it should be. Getting the world to hold hands and sing kum-bai-ya may or may not be an effective technique, but the Empire is, and should be, filled with people who are more really more interested in personal gain than in their ostensible goal of creating a perfect world for people. Or so goes my uninformed opinion.

>just like every other cabal can't actually succeed

I can think of more than one cabal which does actually succeed.

Empire isn't one of them, of course. At least, not yet.

Is this such a bad idea? Letting neutrals/evils in would be much better for the Empire. Well, it would allow more people to actually spread the message about a utopian society w/o having to kill them. Instead of the usual 1) G vs E, it's now 2) G vs N/E, but that means now G will have to talk it over with the N instead of just trying to kill E.

For what it's worth, we kicked that around in the planning stages and ultimately rejected it.

I'm not saying this is the only reason, but I doubt we'd get all that many genuine neutrals in Empire even if it were allowed -- more likely we'd get a curious number of evils that were mysteriously immune to protection, wrath, etc.

A reason I'm glad neutrals can't join: The following can't be done.

Empire member asks neutral character if they want to join, neutral says no, Empire member kills the neutral for refusing to join.

Now, you can at least claim that you might join if you could, which makes the Empire member think of a better reason to want you dead.

(that's in addition to what Nepenthe said about preventing abuse by being neutral in code only)

>I can think of more than one cabal which does actually
>succeed.

You can? Maybe I'm thinking more in terms of permanence. Here's my take.

Warlock: End of evil magic use. Yeah right.
Fortress: End of evil. Even less likely.
Battle: End of magic. No way.
Sylvan: End of civilization. Just as bad.
Tribunal: 0 crime. Will never happen.
Nexus: Destroy battleragers. No.
Empire: World Domination. Depends.
Scion: End of Thera (kinda). If CF ever dies maybe.

Yes, this is a gross oversimplification, but the point is that none of these goals can be completely met. Everyone can have some success, at least for a while, sure. But while they can say to themselves "boy, we sure are kicking ass these days" they'll never get to a point where they can say "we have done everything we aim to.".

Oh, except for Herald maybe. Unless you count making the inn a safe haven, in which case they too are doomed to failure.

I think at least some of the cabal goals are different from what you think they are.

enough said.