There are many innate abilities that are duplicated by class skills, and I'm okay with that. By your logic does that mean dark-elf thieves get some sort of uber-sneak? Or a dark-elf transmuter get an uber-faerie-fire? I don't think they do.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

>There are many innate abilities that are duplicated by class
>skills, and I'm okay with that. By your logic does that mean
>dark-elf thieves get some sort of uber-sneak? Or a dark-elf
>transmuter get an uber-faerie-fire? I don't think they do.

Yes, but not in how mean. A drow's inherent sneak is better than the skill. It's basically always on. For example, drow thieves do not typically enter "sneak". But with rangers the innate ability and the skill overlap precisely and there is no gain in the overlap. Another example: Yes, giant warriors get 100% bash and enhanced damage but I would argue that is a non-trivial boon for the overlap. Practicing/learning with giants can be rather taxing and practice sessions are scarce. Yet another example, in my experience wood-elf acute vision is better than non-wood-elf acute vision for rangers. So here there is also some gain in having an innate ability and a class skill that overlap. I guess I'm just seeing it differently and that I have a hard time finding an example where an overlap of innate ability and class skill does not confer something extra. Even drow faerie-fire, I'm not much of a mage player but I seem to remember something about how drow faerie fire is a bit better than non-drow.

And maybe it's just a suspension of disbelief thing. It seems odd that a ranger with innate quiet movement and the skill quiet movement could not somehow leverage that to sneak, at the very least in their home terrain.

Thanks for listening.