Note for Cyradia: Scion's currently short an imm, so a few people are overseeing it as a team in the interim.

(Also, you write some seriously mean-spirited posts for someone who, honestly, know better.)

Good character man. From my perspective you were a good example of evil not having to equal asshole. You were a violent, unpredictable, force of chaos which is what I hope you were going for. I only interacted with you via Kjornik but I received some input from others about Gawlar. I managed to get two old players back into the game and as we would talk every couple of days one of them would curse your name for causing them trouble or laying the beat down on them. Thanks for the shield and the interactions. Good luck on your next and roll with the punches. There are other games but nothing will come close to CF for the rush.

You were a really cool character. I had some plans brewing for those with my tattoo involving some quests and then I read this. Ugh. Feel free to make another Lyr follower. We have a lot of fun when you have enough time in.

I enjoyed our interactions.

I was the thief in your early life. Something tells me it would have been very fun to play with you if I had kept up level-wise. Had you been a non-empowered class I'd say you were a fool for deleting, as it stands "if it ain't fun, don't do it."

You were doing an awesome job and your presence was very consistent. Was hoping to mix it up with you in hero range. You seemed to have a pretty solid grasp on the shaman class. Your right in a sense as Fort right now is peaking and can get a bit frustrating at times for team evil.

Just wanted to say great job!

Voszoad

Could have given the set to me at least. J/k, sad you deleted, was about the only non-enemy I saw. Cool run from my end.

I enjoyed our fights (except that one, you know the one) and brief conversations, because my favorite mortal enemy is the one who would be my best friend, if they were in a different cabal.

Roll someone else for me to hate and respect, and good luck.

So,

In total I am really sad to see this. You were the absolute bane to me and would have liked to learn more from fighting you. Thanks for all the cool fights. Sorry I took your weapons a lot, but it was the RP that came with it that made it exciting.

I will be honest, for a long time I had seething hatred for Gawlar... I would gather preps and you would log in and take them, every single time for about a week. I was so upset with you, but I did my best to not let it bleed through.


Please, I know it is super frustrating to loose things, and I personally have deleted because of it, but work on that one single thing. Don't worry about items and you will make your awesome characters become unforgettable power houses. This was the only one thing I didn't like about Gawlar.


Great job, sorry about that second to last time, I really didn't take everything from you, and I am really sorry to see you go (though there is an audible sigh or relief coming from me). GLWYN

A huge disappointment as I thought Gawlar could go all the way.

I go into my punishment under Destuvius's question and I stand by that. I think it was overkill and silly, I think it was a cheerleading stunt by a cheerleader for the other team, and it completely soured my character.

It stunk of someone cutting the knees out of a person already fighting against the odds. The tongue lashing that I got was just petty, especially given(in my mind) more egregious affronts to cabal dogma by almost everyone.

I loved almost everyone I interacted with.

Mirozah, you're hardcore and I love you for it. I wish I could have heroed as we would have absolutely destroyed most people.

Halifan you're creepy and awesome. Love your endearing RP, love your twisted sense of humor.

Bejhac, You were a great foe and I have a huge amount of respect for you. Keep being awesome.

Nargok, I finally had a bashing buddy before all this turned south. You were amazeballs and I had fun racking the PKs with you.

Oloice, See Mirozah. Mass Destruction would have been in our future.


There's so many more, respond and I'll respond as well.

Overall I hope people enjoyed Gawlars twisted insane nagging RP. I had a lot of fun playing him.

Overall I thought this was a pretty good character, but man, there are just some things you can't get away with. I honestly can't remember another person in a similar situation (and there have been more than a few) who got to stay in the cabal, much less only losing one power with it clear that you could get it back.

Fri Sep 4 20:25:59 2009 by 'Mergulla' at level 51 (234 hrs):
I logged on just to hear some people complaining that Bambi killed the Archmage to keep the Outlanders from getting the item. He claimed an orc walked in and he assisted, and happened to get the killing blow


That's from Bambizlo's PBF. Killing the Inner personally to avoid being raided is WAY worse than a groupmate killing the Outer while I'm not even in the same area.

Bambizlo was not punished. I was stripped of my cabal powers.

Huh, I didn't know about that one.

Apparently he successfully made a case for it being accidental, which you couldn't / didn't, but I'm surprised that was successful.

I guess my issue here is that we have AT LEAST two cases where Scions killed the Archmage. The Inner. Not the Outer. Personally. One pretty obviously accidentally, the other a good deal shadier.

In both cases no punishment was given out. One went on to be leader the other became one of the more notorious Scions.

I didn't kill my Outer or my Inner. I was grouped with someone who, while I was in a different area, killed my outer.

I think the appropriate strict action would have been "Bring me his head or get uninducted."

I think I got pretty much screwed given the evidence.

.

As the imm who punished someone in one of those earlier scenarios, let me give you some backdrop.

A: I had just come back. I saw it happen but didn't want to rock a cabal boat that wasn't mine. However I know that wasn't cool so I wanted to do something. In retrospect? I would have done something more harsh, and likely more harsh than what you got since I agree what happened in that situation was a lot worse.

B: This is a great situation to roll with the punches. You're in a dark, evil and unforgiving cabal and you just messed up. You're gonna have some crap happen to you that likely wouldn't in other places. However you can also view it as an opportunity. There have been several situations where a player gets smacked for this, but rolls through and comes out ahead. You get your power back and maybe an edge for being so cool about it. View things like this as opportunities to grow and really show how much ass you can kick. You got the spotlight on you when you did this. That's something huge that not many players get and it's a guarantee they might watch you more. It's your chance to shine man! I wasn't there when this went down but it seemed like they made it clear you could earn it back? You kick ass at that, you might earn it back and then some.

This is another one of those situations where this game will never be completely fair. We allow a lot of autonomy in our staff in how they handle situations like this. Scion right now doesn't have a dedicated imm so a lot of us step in to handle it. We each handle stuff a bit differently and there isn't a guide book on "This is what to do in situation Y" We just don't have the time to write that and generally we rely on each other to police each other. We ask "Hey, I'm gonna do X. Is this too much, too little?"

Now I think we admin we might not quite fully understand the impact on the other side as the player might see it, and maybe we could communicate that and understand that better, however there's always going to be incidents where one person was smacked harder than the other. Often times we review what happened to make sure it's inline. (In this case I think what happened to you was fair. I don't think I was harsh enough when I handled a similar situation awhile back and going forward I likely wouldn't be anywhere near as soft as I was) Anyway, I rambled a bunch here. Going to try to give the bullet point version.

1. I think your punishment was fair and encourage players to see these situations as opportunites now that you have a spotlight on you. If you roll with it well, often times when we give stuff back, we'll toss on other rewards for being so cool about it.

2. We have a big and varied staff so the punishments we might dish out will vary based on what happened and the imm. We do try to review these situations to make sure we aren't being too harsh to make sure we right it. (I think perhaps we could be more transparent about this. We'll bone stuff up and I think it's good to admit that to help build a better relationship with the playerbase and let everyone know "Yeah, we know we can screw up. Here's a situation where we did. Sorry we ruined your fun.") In my case? I wasn't harsh enough about this and I apologize you felt you got the short end of the stick when others got off easier.

3. We strive to be consistent in how we act, but since the game and players are always changing, we can't write THE RULEBOOK OF ALL THE THINGS. As such, there will always be variances in punishment/rewards so there will always be that inherent unfairness when things slide against you. We try to keep ourselves from being too extreme in either direction.

In the end, I'm sorry this took the wind out of your sails and I'm sorry if it was compounded by the fact that others got off with less. That was perhaps my bad.

This really means a lot and I appreciate how candidly you phrase things.

I get the variance, and I get that on a moving board like Carrionfields it is hard to draw parallels. I guess my biggest beef was that I'm 99% sure the same person who handled Bambizlo's deal was the same person who handled mine. Kill an inner get nothing, be grouped with someone who kills an outer, get power stripped. That level of inconsistency astounds me when it's the same immortal, the same cabal, and similar offenses.

You're right. I could have stuck it out. I've done that before. One of my Marshalls screwed up in a fairly big way and got ungranted, made a squire and given a flaw which made it almost impossible for me to flee.

I ate more deaths with that character than god and country and barely made it back to Maran with about 2 deaths left.

But it wasn't that fun. It was kind of awful, since I earned my way back to Maran just in time to con die. I wasn't interested in taking the rebuilding road again. My experiences with Gurzgred(the Maran I reference in the past two paragraphs) soured me on that since I didn't really get anything cool out of it. I got back to where I was at hour 55, but at hour 250, just in time to con die.

I just wasn't willing to row that boat again.

Yeah. That sucks you've had a sour experience with this prior and I can totally see that based on that experience this is how you felt things would go here and that you didn't want to roll with it.

When this happens we look at what the offense was, what cabal was it, what the character's track record is, what they lost, etc. These all factor in to how we create to road back and what kindsa stuff there will be. I'm not sure what the Maran situation is but I'd consider losing leader and getting kicked back to Squire way more harsh than losing one power. (Even if it was a pretty kickass power) Also in Gawler's case I think it was agreed among us that we'd make it relatively easy to get back since what you did wasn't OMFG WHAT THE HELL MAN? And prior to that you'd been a solid and fun character to watch that didn't make a habit out of doing things like that. However, you're also in evil Scion cabal where they aren't gonna take any ####. That's a factor. Also of course, who the imm is and who was around when they said, "Hey, I'm gonna do XYZ to this person. What do you all think?" So even saying "I know it's the same imm!" isn't quite the whole story since in general, we try to make sure we get second opinions on things, especially when dealing with another characters abilities and their direct ability to interact with the game. There's a ton of factors here.

Anyway, I'm glad you brought this up as it helps us take a look at things on how we handle stuff, how we've handled it in the past and how we should handle it going forward. We're gonna continue to make mistakes in both directions but just simply saying "Hey, uh, so I'm not happy with how this went down and here's why. Here's some other things I've seen." This is very useful to us and how we see stuff, and while we're not always going to agree or change things, it's good to get the dialogue going. As I said, in Gawler's case this wouldn't have changed anything, but I'd like to think we would have made it a point you wouldn't have been left out in the cold long if you woulda stuck it out.

Thanks. You make good points across the entirety of your post.

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and kind words.

I'm glad you stuck it out Hanging out with Gurzgred with that flaw was one of the most fun times I've had in CF.

Also, Gurz wasn't the Marshall

Long ago I got into a row with Cador when I punished 4 or 5 Battle members for ganging up on an un-caballed (at the time) thief. I was a 59 and I think he was too, but it was ages ago so I could be wrong. In any case, I kicked all 4 or 5 of them out of Battle upon seeing them gang and tag-team the thief (repeatedly) for not living up to Village parity standards of the time. Turns out one of them was Cador's mortal and the thief had been Scarab until recently (which I wasn't aware of, I just saw he was un-caballed then). From a limited point of view, the Villagers were wrong though from a cabal-war point of view they thought they were right. They all got re-inducted and I imagine Cador reset their skills back to 100. But it emphasized to me that I wasn't following all the politics and characters closely enough because of work so I resigned from imm-dom.

The point of the reminiscing is that even Imms are going to have different views because they have different experiences with the cast of characters that are on. I like Arvam's take on it and it's a good lesson to keep in mind with all your characters.

So much human filth must be created for something humane to arise.

Should we redouble efforts to increase filth?

Rindros accidentally killed the Archmage while defending. Apparently Morosa chain lightning will hit the Archmage. Nothing came of it because it clearly wasn't intentional.

I'm really, really disappointed that you deleted before we could throw down a bunch more. I played like an idiot last night but I've got a few other tricks up my sleeve!

Roll empire next.

Gawler...

So much we could have done. The Maran would need to bring more than 5. Seeing as you were what I replaced Drogtar with you (as best as a non-leader can), and all the effort and trouble I had to go through to pull it off, you go and do this!

I was quite ready for you to be in hero range. Matter of fact, our first little joint pk ploy with the sunwarden worked wondrously.

Very much enjoyed our interactions. From our very first interview, to the subtle pull and tug of power between us, to the continued collection of blood for the ritual. All awesome. Most of the undercurrent of our interactions was barely perceptible to anyone who might have overheard or watched, but very real between us. This made our interactions very special, and unique.

From a PK point of view, you were an invaluable scout. The best friend to a transmuter who is outnumbered 12 to 1 is a quick set of eyes. Soooo many times did you distract someone just long enough for me to ambush them. I rewarded you above all for this. A wonderful relationship.

I do hope whatever you decide to do with your next, involves the same depth, intrigue, and fascination that this character had. As much as one dastardly character can enjoy another, I enjoyed yours immensely.

Gawler is a great loss to the fields, especially given the current state of cabal war. But, without much Theory craft, perhaps that's the way someone up there needs/wants it to be.


All the best with your next, and I hope to see you again in the fields soon.

You're very right. The undercurrent of our interactions were gold. I loved interacting with Mirozah, and if I could have figured out a good IC way to beg you and Halifan for bitchrankage I would, sadly Gawlar didn't lend himself to begging very well and I don't think you or Halifan would have lent themselves to being begged very well.

Mirozah was amazing and did so much for Gawlar, so thank you for that. Sorry to leave you high and dry.

watching you grab all those weapons from people you followed that got disarmed. Well played. I personally hope -not- to get up close and personal with whatever you bring to the table next. You deserve a Bender license plate. 1-DVS-BSTD

Ahaha, I love that Futurama joke. One devious bastard, well, that's certainly what Gawlar liked to think of himself at least.

The weapons-disarming thing was kind of funny. It was a business decision made by young Gawlar and I think netted me close to 300 gold throughout it's entirety. Grabbing disarmed weapons, selling them to either the disarmer or the disarmee. Just meshed well with Gawlars RP too, though I imagine I pissed off a good many people as well.

But your mouth kept getting in my way. The constant whining about gear, or people not fighting you 1v1. I mean crap man, a non-faith paladin vs a Shaman in most fights is not going to land the kill, and stand a much greater chance of dying that the shaman. So yeah, sometimes I'm calling in the calvary. But man the looting threats were almost non-stop, and that just ruins it for me as a player, cause all I get is like, Oh yeah, buddy boy, that's how you want it, ok. I mean not just threateing a full loot over a piece of gear, but actually taking all you can and running somewhere else and trying to barter it back for one weapon.... Meh. It just comes off as Whining biotch to me.

On a positive note, you were more than ready to bring it, all day long. Your persistance was definitly a thing to watch out for. You played traps pretty well.

My original post wasn't deleted...I'm just medicated with a Sinus Infection...

Ignore me.

I was always looking for someone to play accidental lackey to as a goblin, and since Mirozah was a hero killing other heroes, I imagined you would take that same spot, manipulating him for your own enjoyment until you didn't need him and then killed him.

I contemplated randomly attacking you at inopportune times, just for the hell of it, but a goblin benefits heavily having an ally that can dispel flight on people for them to kill, so I'm glad I got to work with you a few times before I died off, and I enjoyed the insane RP you had, it sort of complimented my own.

I was actually completely expecting you to kill me at some point in time. I just got that vibe from you, but I needed you too badly the couple of times we worked together to justify not using you.

Dwunot was awesome, and I enjoyed our complimentary RP as well.

I'm kind of upset about this. I thought you were a great presence in Scion and really wanted to see what we could all do together when you joined hero ranks.

Echoing Mirozah, your scouting was invaluable. Your demeanor was great. Three nihilists running around spitting globs of slime at people and doing the whole eeevil RP thing. That was the dream. You also seemed fairly deathful from what I could see. I remember seeing you show up one day during the night of 100 players, get your insta-empowerment, a snazzy title, and you were in Scion the next day. Then I'd always see you hanging around whatever cabal we were raiding or city we were assaulting, usually with a corpse or three piled up next to you.

Regarding the incident that caused your deletion, here are my thoughts. Was killing the Nightwalker wrong - yes. How wrong was it depends on the circumstances, which I don't know but you do. My comment about it over CB was to the indication of 'something tells me you asked the orc to do it, and that's not cool.' but I couldn't assume that. Then I let it go. Perhaps if I took a harder stance and made you kill the orc, all would have been okay in the long run. It looks like an Imm was watching and took action directly. Now, as far as your punishment, if you waited until I logged on next, and approached me IC, I'm sure we would have been able to turn it around together into a positive thing. So I think your deletion was premature, especially if you were enjoying the character until that point. Having a character delete over a turn of events, especially one that is a rising star, should never happen. So I'm sorry that I didn't handle it directly then, to avoid what ended up happening to you. Likewise, if the Archmage had given me a nudge about it first, perhaps this deletion could have been avoided.

With that said, I really hope you enjoyed your time, and will continue to bring out quality characters. I hear Fortress is hurting these days, you should help them out .

I'm pretty much in agreement with everything you said.

I think you're an amazing leader and having fought you as Avalusci, you're an extremely competent PKer as well. I doubt I'll be dipping back into Fort anytime soon though .

Well, at least they didn't try to age kill you. That has a little more lasting impact on your char than taking away nightwalker or un-induction.

True, you did get the shaft, but it was a bit of brilliant mortal-driven RP at least, and not something completely out of your control.

I liked Drogtar, FWIW. Sorry it ended the way it did.

As a Plus:
No more summon X# of mobs so that if I manage to make some of the toughest people in the game, Flee, I run into them.
No more chasing me around to summon polearm wielding mob for me to attack over and over.

As a Minus:
I'm not going to get to fight you.
You were so close to my range and were the most annoying evil that wasn't in my PK range that seemed to have some RP and spunk to you. And you're gone.
You gave up. I've been booted from a few Cabals for Various reasons and most of the time, I play it out and return. Kinda sad you didn't.


Overall, I thought you were tactically superb, very fast, and tormented a lot of villagers going through the ranks. I was looking forward to having another Shaman to fight again after the old Bull left. Aside from the ending, I do hope that you had fun and that you won't let a thing like this sour you. GLWYN

Thanks, you really made gnome warrior look buff. I think you would have whipped up on me pretty good in the hero ranks, but I had a few tactics up my sleeve to deal with you.

for a few reasons:

Firstly, the evil cabals have been in the doldrums lately and from what I heard you were a serious contender.

Secondly I think, given the scenario that the punishment was actually erring on the lenient side. I'm not saying there wouldn't have been work to do, to earn your stripes again, but it definitely wasn't something which could have been worked around given that you weren't booted. I personally would have considered that as a Scion Imm since it is an elite and evil cabal. That brings to my final point..

I really think this could have been a defining moment of Gawlar's life if you had approached it differently. Had you taken it on the chin and pushed on with success it could have made the character very memorable. It sounds like you have the knowledge and skill to pull this off too.

I do believe you made an error of judgement in the RP arena and got stung for it, which is to be expected in Scion. I'm personally sorry the character didn't pan out how you hoped, most infrequent evil players who opt to join evil cabals end up getting reprimanded with one character or another. It is part of the territory and package of being evil. Having been there myself I know how it goes.

Edit: Also, though it was your prerogative to do so, and was understandable, I am not entirely convinced that the deletion won't be regretted a little at some point.

Anyway, good luck with whatever comes next.

I was really looking forward to mixing it up with you at hero. Until then, I just wanted to frustrate you as I could. Come back soon.

I do hope you become Jack's smirking revenge. I'll wait for your thread.

As one of the people who enjoyed watching you go out and mix it up all the time, did you really think you get do something like have a guy in your pk range wax your cabal guardian with no consequence? You shoulda just pked that guy right afterwards and I am sure that everything would have been fine.

On a side note, why make the last hurrah like you did with all the complaints about being looted if you were just going to delete? Little things like that leave big blemishes on an otherwise awesome character.

Overall, a fantastic and deathful character that I wish I could have found a good reason to interact with. GLWYN

I'm glad you liked the character. I had a lot of fun with Gawlar. As for the complaints, yeah, you're right. That was ####ty of me and I was in a rather pissy mood and wanted to make some idle threats. Not proud of it in any capacity.

Bah, I really...really liked you. I liked fighting you, I liked talking with you. I liked RP'ing with you. I liked everything about this character.

The circumstances of your deletion seem pretty crappy, but they seem par for the course given who you think you interacted with.

I don't know how on earth you can be held accountable for dip#### groupmate. But, if you kept on rolling with such-said dude after he hit the nightwalker, I could see a 'talking to'.

Whoever pushed the punishment far enough that it ruined your char for you was in the wrong though, I think you were over-punished given just how refreshing your ACTUAL RP was.

Do you know what exactly caused his deletion or what his punishment was? Were you present for said incident or are you basing all of this on hearsay? Contrary to popular belief, the imm staff does not go out and punish people just because we are bored.

My deletion was caused because I got stripped of Nightwalker as a power(AKA the only Scion power I had as a shaman at my rank...I guess I still had Beckon Druk'trar but that is a fairly situation power. This is like stripping a berserker of bloodthirst and resist and saying 'Well he still has trophy, he wasn't punished too hard').

I strongly suspect I am correct in who punished me.

I think the punishment was silly, especially given the hours and effort I put into Scion. Which was a lot. I think a better punishment would have been 'Go kill <PERSON> or face my wrath.', but I also suspect that the Imm who punished me isn't exactly one of my cheerleaders, for a whole host of reasons.

In hindsight, I probably should have killed <PERSON> or at least tormented him ICly some. That's my bad.

EDIT: I think the funniest part of this is that a large number of complaints are currently trickling in about how bad the power swing is in Fort's favor. There are about five evils sticking it out and really, really fighting while outnumbered. Stacking on a crippling punishment for a slight in cabal dogma seems silly to me.

Especially when THROUGHOUT Gawlar's life Fort/Outlander/Rager/Empire all bent cabal dogma themselves very questionably to deal with Gawlar.

If you're going to get on me for not killing someone who killed my outer, fine, but then you have to get on the outlanders letting Paladins heal them and get on the Ragers calling in Empire to defend too. Or the sphere courage Forties acting with what I would consider the exact opposite of courage.

If you want to discuss other things further, feel free to email me (destuvius@carrionfields.com)

Regardless of any of the other variables occurring in Thera that have nothing to do with said incident you were punished for: Do you actually believe that you made a good IC choice to allow someone to kill the nightwalker and not in turn rip their face off?

I think I address this in my former post. I did not make a good IC choice, as stated in my former post.

Thanks for the invitation to email, but I think I've said all I have to say.

Having had 6 of them or so...that's not a minor dogma break. Any of the Scion imms of prior years would've instantly booted you for that and probably talked smack, titled and slain you too just to rub it in.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Balls

n/t

Since this question was directed at me: here it goes

Do you know what exactly caused his deletion or what his punishment was?

No, I do not know what EXACTLY his punishment was. I do know the player of Gawlar has said he was stripped of Scion power(s) but not un-inducted as a result of a groupmate attacking his outer, and him failing to kill such said groupmate. I also know he (the player) said he deleted as a result. I'll just have to take his word that is why he deleted.

I don't believe you guys do punish people because you are bored. I do believe that you sometimes use a sledehammer where a rockhammer would suffice, and I believe this from instances like this, as well as my own experience.

A groupmate attacking the outer isn't something a player should be directly punished for...regardless of align/dogma/etc. Of course, this is an opinion.

I 100% believe (having played directly with Gawlar quite a bit over the past few weeks) that had the IMM taken the approach of "you did xyz..and its not cool" That, this problem would not happen again

Stripping of powers/abilities/breaking of funsticks should be reserved for ACTUAL cheating, or complete RP #### ups..(Paladin gambling with a demon, or bargaining with Satan etc). Group mate attacking outer, and you assisting via auto-assist is hardly a "mistake" in my mind. Its more of a coincidence, and one that could happen to anyone. It is something that should be handled by the 2 characters in question through RP, I hardly think it _NEEDS_ IMM attention. Do you disagree?

Also of note: I have seen Maran do this very thing "On Accident" and being told "nicely" not to do it again, I have it logged and would be happy to show you.

Bejhac

It wasn't just attacking an outer, it was killing an outer in order to prevent out of pk members of the opposing cabal from regaining their item. While that may not exactly be against the rules as they are written, it is certainly playing in a gray area similar to multi-killing and full looting/sacing of people.

He lost a grand total of 1 power, and one that just so happened to be a very easy to draw parallel to the cabal outer guardian that he allowed to be killed.

Everyone has this crazy notion that when their RP has consequence it is because someone is out to get them. You are 100% free to rp your character however you desire. The side effect of that is that the rest of the world around you responds to everything you do and there are consequences to said choices. While they may be 100% valid moves to make for your character, it does not mean that the people who have given you power agree and they may in turn decide to take that power away.

There are always going to be situations where the funstick gets broken when you start to get into situations of gray area. The easiest way to avoid that is to simply avoid the gray area all together.

I wasn't even in the same area. I was just grouped with the person who did kill the outer.

And as for your gray area, I'll address it with the same evidence I addressed Daevryn earlier.

Fri Sep 4 20:25:59 2009 by 'Mergulla' at level 51 (234 hrs):
I logged on just to hear some people complaining that Bambi killed the Archmage to keep the Outlanders from getting the item. He claimed an orc walked in and he assisted, and happened to get the killing blow


That's from Bambizlo's PBF. Killing the Inner personally to avoid being raided is WAY worse than a groupmate killing the Outer while I'm not even in the same area.

Bambizlo was not punished. I was stripped of my cabal powers.

I guess my issue here is that we have AT LEAST two cases where Scions killed the Archmage. The Inner. Not the Outer. Personally. One pretty obviously accidentally, the other a good deal shadier.

In both cases no punishment was given out. One went on to be leader the other became one of the more notorious Scions.

I didn't kill my Outer or my Inner. I was grouped with someone who, while I was in a different area, killed my outer.

I think the appropriate strict action would have been "Bring me his head or get uninducted."

I think I got pretty much screwed given the evidence.

your groupmate did not just attack the outer, he killed it. You lost one cabal power, not cabal powerS. You were also given the opportunity to turn this into an RP catalyst and regain said power. You opted to delete and in turn attempt to throw people under the bus for your own decision. You can try to play a victim all you want, but its kind of pointless at the juncture based purely on this point you made for yourself right here: http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=4&topic_id=118801&mesg_id=118811&page=

Destuvious,

We've not interacted much.

But Surely, you can see how punishing someone admittedly because of the actions of his GROUPMATE while, such said individual isn't even near such said outer. Is a little bit over the top? Its kind of guilt by association.

holy crap, maybe you guys could feel an "ounce" of remorse for screwing with someone's character to the point of deletion over this?

Now, could he have not deleted, and gone the IC road...sure.

Could you guys have shown him a little slack given the circumstances? I believe so, yes.

And, he isn't throwing anybody under the bus for his 'own decision' Are you implying he MADE such said person 'k nightwalker' or 'k outer'. Did he ask the person to do it? If the answer to both of those questions is 'no', then I don't really understand why he was punished at all.

Unless there was a horrible bout of miscom along the way, the punishment stems from his stance of doing nothing when said groupmate killed the outer. Its not guilty by association. Its guilty for what everyone seems to agree was a poor choice (not killing said char for waxing his cabal guardian).

Do I feel bad for the guy? I do, to a point. However if you decide to make a poor choice and expect it to come free of consequence then you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Was his character completely ruined right there on the spot? No. Did he receive a set back in his ability to pk? Yes. Was he given a fantastic opportunity to rp? I think so. Was he even told that he could get said lost power back? Yes.

Making the person do it, asking them to do it or knowing that they are doing it and ignoring that, are the three of those things really that different to you? I don't think they are, but maybe we will just never agree on that point.

Someone asked the person to do it, yes.

The rest can stay in-game for now.

wersdf

For the record.

Thank you for explaining that to me, I realize it was Destuvious that said "Does it really make a difference if he consented to it being done" In my mind it does, I am satisfied and will stop posting upon the subject.

Thanks Daev.

I suppose we can be all be orderly rule following mechanistic automatons.

Oh wait, we had one of those. He deleted.

IMHO The more complex, the better. A Necromancer who becomes a healer for the spire who becomes an acolyte, for instance.

Clearly not black and white.

A acolyte whom is possessed by a demon and joins scarab.

Yup. That's gray.

It'd be impossible to regather your cabal item from Scion or Empire if there were orcs online. To me this particular situation is pretty black and white. Do you want people getting others to come kill their inner so you can't raid them?

The other thing I think people don't get is that Scion is not Empire, it's not Scarab. Scion's main goal is the Eternal Night and the Nightwalkers are the key part of that. If you play the RP where the nightwalkers are living, breathing, intelligent entities then you'd never want to risk making them angry and expect to still be a Scion afterwards. You could get away with many things as a Scion in respect to how you treat your cabal members that Imperials could never get away with but when it comes to the Nightwalkers and how you handle yourself, Scion doesn't have a lot of room to maneuver. I'd wager you could potentially get away with killing the Archmage before you could get away with killing the shadowy nightwalker.

Now in this case, he upset the nightwalkers and they stopped coming to his calling. Totally appropriate punishment. He makes himself visible as a great, strong and wise ally and that turns around. A lot better than what I would've given him as the Chancellor (a boot in the ass).

n/t