First of all, if you want to understand why mortal leaders don't already make someone a full maran, you have to understand the way Shokai has been operating Maran for a long time now. I don't know how much you know about the way things were in the past, before there were squires; but in those days, only an Imm would induct into the cabal. Maran wasn't created to exclude new players, but it generally takes an experienced player to grasp the ideas and roleplay them. When the change came and they implemented the squire system, it was because they wanted to give the Maran more of a leadership system rather than the 'knights-at-the-round-table' approach. Now you have mortal leaders who can induct you into what I like to think of as your 'trial period' squireship. This is just a guess, and I may be talking completely out of my ass here, but I don't think Shokai will be handing 'Maranation' power over to morts any time soon. Since the beginning, he has always had a pretty direct hand in who gets Maran and I think that's the way he likes it. If it was your gig, you'd want it like that too.
The main reason mortals shouldn't be allowed to raise full Marans: A maran has to be living a life of integrity at all times, and the mortal leaders only really see the side of your character that you want them to see. The imms can watch you without your knowledge and if you do something that seems shady, it's going to take you a longer time to impress them. That's why I recommend thinking before you do anything, no matter whether you're an applicant, squire, or Maran. You never know who's watching...

I agree with everything that Obaznuk has said. I actually like the fact that only the imms can make people full Maran. When playing Golron one of my biggest problems was keeping track of people. I would like to think I had nice solid hours, big blocks, spread over different periods of days, yet no matter when I played I would always miss some people, so it meant that when I was trying to find out if someone logged in enough (in my eyes) for a maran it became a real pain. As even though I like to think I had good playing times, I could never be on 24/7. Basically I think its good that Shokai guides his baby, if it fell into mortal hands then chances are it would become alot easier to become a full maran, taking away the respect and esteem that comes from becoming a maran. They are , and and always will be in my eyes, a great honour to be a maran.

P.S. Obaznuk, hope your keeping around, never got to interact with you too much, but you were great fun when I did. Thanks.

Blobqirt

Shokai is also human which means he is not on all the time, in fact his last posted times would suggest he is on a lot less often than most active mortals and at times when much fewer people play. I have no problem with him wanting to do it himself the problem though is that when he is not around it completly kills the cabal. Nobody wants to be a squire for 50+ hours at hero especially after they have proven ic over and over again they have earned the right to be a maran. I personally see it as plain demeaning that some people can go so long without something they earned simply because one person does not want to share the power to maranate. Of course maybe giving mortals the power to do so is not the answer but another fortress imm or two would be a big step in the right direction.

nobody wants to be a squire or scribe and in all honesty the rp for a maran is not that hard especially considering the other cabal rp standards. Furthermore why make people be scribes before acolytes that only cuts the legs out from under a cabal nobody really wants to join in the first place, well that innaccurate but I would bet at any given time there are 10 squires and maran for every 1 scribe and about 20 for every acolyte, just seems a little odd to me.

Just because he doesn't post regularily really doesn't mean too much. From what I know he watches alot, I have imm comments from him when I really had no idea he was on, I actually thought it was another imm that gave Golron his last name.

Just to put things in perspective, so you don't think I am talking out my arse. I wasn't inducted into fortress with Golron until around rank 40. Not because I power ranked, not because I wasn't logged on much, but because I couldn't find a mortal leader to talk to. I joined with no expectations of becoming a Maran, I didn't join for the powers, so it made it even better when I was made a full Maran. Also, from what I am aware, Vynnie would also Maran people, but because its not really a quick step from squire to maran (usually), it would give time for Vyn to talk to Shokai and find out if he agrees. At least that is what I would assume happens.

All I can really do is give you my advice on the matter. You said yourself that the rp for a maran is not that hard yet you say that people are squires for over 50 hours at hero. All I can say is if it is that easy then why aren't they made marans? The imms dont have to be visible or give you any indication that they are watching you and evaluating you.

You also remark on the rp standards of the fortress so I would assume that you believe some people aren't crash hot. Well all I can really say is that if these people were inducted by mortals, who probably thought that they were good at the time, and you want mortals to be able to maran people, then wouldn't it lead in bad rping Marans?


Don't take this the wrong way, but the way your posting it makes me feel that you think that becoming a Maran or Acolyte is a given, a right and you have to/deserve to get it. I remember posts awhile ago saying that joining a cabal is a privaladge (damn, you can tell by my spelling that its the wee hours of the morn), not a right.

Basically, what I am trying to say is that it is an honor to become a Maran or Acolyte, there are supposed to be more squires and scribes the marans and acolytes, so if you join Fortress then its best if you dont actually expect to get promoted, this way, if or when you are then it feels so much sweeter.

Blobqirt

Well one of the reasons why I proposed this was because Shokai is only plain during some certain hours, and if our hours do not coincide the "honor of me becoming maran" is very slim I mean I could RP and PK to what he expects it to be but if he doesn't see it I don't think it's going to do any good...That was what I was mainly thinking off when I posted this post I mean since there's only one imm there's a slimmer chance of one being notcied and so on

Shokai is not around that much more, and he is a single imm in the cabal.

Let me take an example(I have not played one myself):

Menon, adrigons paladin.

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=31&topic_id=2087&mesg_id=2087&listing_type=search
His premium post, with good imm comments and so on.

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=4&topic_id=29883&mesg_id=29917&page=
Velkurahs responce to his delete thread.

He killed his evils and did good, he is also from Sweden so I assume he is not playing that much when Shokai is around. He was inducted at 38 hours at rank 30 to fortress and deleted at hero with 200 hours.

I just dont belive that he was not worthy of full maran status, especially when I've seen others that I dont understand why they get it.

Believe me when I say that, even if your times don't mesh, he knows how much time you have logged. He is human, but he has considerable access to the info related to his cabal and it's members.

Also, he is not the only one watching the members of the fort. If you kick ass, chances are high he will hear about it.

As far as someone not getting it when they have earned it. Like with anything, there will *always* be some who slip through the cracks and don't recieve their just reward. However, just because *you* think you deserve it, doesn't mean that you do (I tend to think if you have that attitude about it, it's likely you actually don't). When you follow it up with "in all honesty the rp for a maran is not that hard" I kind of grin. There is a bit of depth to it outside of killing the red lampshades. If you have it down, good for you. But I imagine you are being a bit presumptuous.

My last fort char was several months back, but the amount of ####ty to mediocre squires was fairly irritating(and I'm sure most of them felt they had earned full induction). Personally, I preferred the days in the beginning when it was a very lengthy interview process with imm only induction and no squire stuff.