How about giving flags for "extreme" sizes, such as an enlarged giant and a reduced gnome/svirf?

The result would be:

(Huge) Zulghinlour towers over the landscape, sneering down at you.

and

(Tiny) Grumorum is here, riding a mobile stump.

A person could probably figure this stuff out via "consider", but I think this wouldn't be a bad change. Also, in a fighting situation wasting a second to consider your foe, instead of just noting their size flag as you enter the room could cause problems.

Any takers?

It looks like we've had a decent amount of feedback that has illustrated the various points of view on this idea. I still like the original idea the best, since it only involves extreme size changes, but Isildur makes a good point about how everyone in Thera would know what everyone else should look like, roughly...hence, any size alteration should be noticable via the flags (Reduced) and (Enlarged). I wouldn't mind seeing either of these ideas implemented, but it comes down to what you Imms think...


...So whatcha thinkin'?

>It looks like we've had a decent amount of feedback that has
>illustrated the various points of view on this idea. I still
>like the original idea the best, since it only involves
>extreme size changes, but Isildur makes a good point about how
>everyone in Thera would know what everyone else should look
>like, roughly...hence, any size alteration should be noticable
>via the flags (Reduced) and (Enlarged). I wouldn't mind seeing
>either of these ideas implemented, but it comes down to what
>you Imms think...
>
>
>...So whatcha thinkin'?

Your idea was the least worst of the bunch. I'm not swayed in
favor of a change though.

It's part of the game trying to figure out an opponents size and basing your tactics upon it. To make that obvious would just be a simplifictation that made pk less interesting. (Not that it would matter much at all, mind you, but there's downsides and actually no upsides that I can see.)

If it's categorically better to require that such information be gained only by close inspection, why not remove the sanctuary flag and force people to use "look" to figure out whether someone has sanc up?

The enlargement reduction issue can seal a fight from the start. The sanc issue is far less likely to.

e.g. If I know an assassin is after my fire giant, I'll probably reduce on the grounds that most (for a period of time) were all using reduce potions. This means that the assassin is bashable, which often spells the end from him from the start.

If I am attacking a fire ap or an orc with my drow ap, I'll probably reduce. If he plans on bashing me, he'll end up getting slept.

If I am fighting a fire warrior with my orc, I'll enlarge, to help with savage feeding etc. He might choose to reduce to prevent that. That's all part of the tactical game in my opinion.

Sanc is less so, partly because you'd almost always choose to have sanc, and don't sacrifice anything for it.

If your reduced fire giant just starts spamming bash on a sanc'd assassin, you could get out-damaged and die to your own stupidity.

If you see you are not killing the assassin, you can probably still run.

If I'm a hiding class and I'm waiting to attack a class with sanctuary I'll probably wait a few rooms away and scan until it drops. That is, if I think they might try to fog me or draw me into combat. If there were no flag for white aura, I'd have to regulaarly step into the room and look at them.

Various flags are used in CF to indicate things that are both obvious (like an invoker that's surrounded by flames, or a peculiar white aura) and very need-to-know (hence, not every damned affect tags a flag onto someone's long description). That being said, what about extreme sizes is not obvious, not need-to-know, or a combination of the two? Anyone who has played for a while knows how powerful either of the super-sizes can be, in the right situation. Why not make this knowledge useful and viable for planning strategies by one's enemies, and not just one's self? What I mean is, if I'm the enlarged cloud giant I know my advantages and disadvantages right off the bat...I know that I can get stuck in some rooms, that my bashing is going to be better against normal giants or other races that might be enlarged. I know that I'm going to be immune to blackjack and assassinate unless the agressor is of the correct size. People should have a chance to prepare against that, I think; they should be able to see it as surely as they can see a ward of blades, or a black shroud, or faerie fire. It's on a level of similar importance, I think.

Anyways, I appreciate the response, Qal. Just trying to appeal one last time.

I don't think it adds enough to the game to be worth doing.

But thats just me, and I suck. (see below)

It's a matter of adding one more little snip onto the existing code for those effects...very simple to do. So what if the effect is small? We've all seen *lots* of small changes over the years.

But I think it would detract from the game. Fire aps would once again be able to bash all other aps, etc.

Fire aps would once again be able to bash all other aps, etc.

I'm not following.

This would totally warn someone if a fire giant was super-sized, or if he was either normal or reduced. It's something that someone should be able to see at a glance, or from a distance. Why, if I'm some giant walking up to fight a fire AP, am I suddenly going to realize that this guy is 10 feet taller than a normal giant when he starts bashing the #### out of me?

So he can bash you with one size advantage. That's not as much of an advantage as a giant realising his opponent is reduced and being able to reduce himself in order to bash at all.

I took a few shots tonight before getting home and reading this...so maybe that's why I still, after reading this post like 5 times, can't figure out what the hell you're saying. Someone help Mek out?

Our giant Bob, enlarges to go get some big Axe wielding goodness.

Felar spear spec, Nigel, is smart enough to have reduced. Bob sees this and prepares himself to be human-sized.

Normally, Bob would try to bash and fail. Then have to flee and mess with preps to try and get the right size to bash Nigal in. The 'bashing at all' that Incognito brought up only applies to non-giant sized people. And even then its a bit vague, he thought 'If they know what size I am, they'll go for their optimal bashing size... as opposed to whatever they might throw on to test bashing in a first fight.'

Get it?


One thing I never got, is for some insane reason enlarged giants can still hit human-sized targets. I noticed this after Ritur suffered greatly, it made them untrippable, unjackable and yet they could bash him Killer. Any imm-response to that kind of scenario?

I think they can only trip them, and that's because trip is subject to different restrictions to bash.

Generally speaking, on a non-stealth char, trip should be less deadly than bash.

nt

Unless I'm mistaken, an enlarged giant vs. a normal-sized human is equivalent to a normal-sized giant vs. a gnome...and if I recall correctly, a giant cannot bash a gnome.

Felar spear spec, Nigel, is smart enough to have reduced. Bob sees this and prepares himself to be human-sized.

Like I said already a few times, the visible flags only happen in the case of EXTREME sizes (reduced gnomes and enlarged giants/minos).

The point here is that either of those particular sizes (huge as hell, or small as a bug) are something that is an added effect...and visually they would appear to be bizarre, hence the flag to make it obvious.

As an aside, should size be a factor when it comes to scanning? Obviously you're going to be able to see a twenty-foot-tall giant a hell of a lot farther away than you would see a reduced gnome.

I agree that from a realism point of view it makes sense to see size.

I am saying that it has more of an impact on game balance when you cannot surprise someone by being unbashable than it does if someone gains a one size advantage over someone they would not normally have a one size advantage over.

I can think of a number of scenarios where it would be useful. You're a giant, you scan and see that your human enemy has reduced himself. Chuckling, you make yourself human-sized and head in to bash his brains out.

My concern is that it would be too spammy if it were applied to all people all the time. That is to say, it would suck if every "normal-sized" giant had (Huge) next to his name. I'd key it off of the actual enlarge and reduce spells. So you'd have flags like (Enlarged) and (Reduced), rather than (Huge), (Tiny), etc.

I'm pretty sure he meant the flags would only apply to the extreme sizes, like one above giant, and one below gnome.

Meaning that a dragon would always have (huge) and a fairy would always have (tiny).

Splntrd

.

And I think it makes sense. As a citizen of Thera I know about how large a gnome, human and giant should be. If I see a giant that's the size of a human, I should immediately recognize that his size has been altered in the downward direction. Ditto for seeing a human that's giant-sized.

.