I know this must have been brought up a few times, but I invited a friend to play carrionfields recently and the first hang-up has always been something that erked me - the stat rolling.

I'd say 90% of the carrionfield community uses some sort of roller, but a new player has no access to one and gets quite aggravated sitting there hitting "no" over and over. Yes, they can pick sub-max stats - but why gimp new players so early on? And most mudders are addicts in some fashion and sub-par stats isn't something people like taking normally.

My solution?
Give every race "base" stats and then a set amount of points to fiddle with.

For example, let's say humans have base stats of 14's across and 24 points to fiddle with. That way, they can max out a few stats or they can have straight 18s.

I know this probably hasn't been changed in a long time, but its just one hang-up I've noticed and many friends have expressed annoyance over, especially if you don't have a roller.

NewTrapper

This dead horse has been beaten many a time. We are sticking with our roller!

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

1. An +int item (or glowing) in the graveyard that has same level as the copper bracer from the ghoul. It's a pain to get shaman's robe or the robe from the elf invoker each time.

2. Include an instructional map as a quest-like item just like the Arkham maps. What happens is a newbie receives only one guide map to the (selected) newbie areas, dependant on one's hometown.

eg. Kobolds, Graveyard, docks for Galadon hometowns. Smuggler's Cove, Forest, north and east of Arkham for Arkham dwellers. Trago-whatever, plains for Udgaard, etc. You get the picture.

This map is from a veteran adventurer also states what are the battle expectations. Have the newbies run to each place's entrance and receive a small bit of experience. At least you have people trying the newbie areas, without everyone jamming at the Galadon docks.

3. When rolling a new character, have the max stats for the race picked to appear ONCE just before the rolled stats are given. This helps newbies what to expect.

Will think/share more when I have the time.

sure, it is sub-optimal relative to glowing gear, but does a newbie care? I didn't.

I recall as a newbie hitting "no" for about half an hour trying to get good stats. That's how sad I am. Fortunately, that experience and others like it motivated me to learn how to use a client.

Of all the things that irritated me as a newbie, stats rolling wasn't really one of them. Some others that I found more troublesome, in no particular order:

* Not knowing item stats and having no way to find out.
* Not knowing where items came from.
* Not knowing how to get anywhere, or get around once "there".
* Not knowing what stats "did" (e.g. X Wis = Y pracs/level, etc.)
* Inability to type in complex commands (or character names) without the benefit of aliases.

One that I would probably find irritating now, but didn't then:

* Not knowing how to accumulate cash.

They are at a disadvantage by their very newness, and all that entails. They should have a workable set of stats in 20-30 rolls. From their, they can explore the newbie academy and venture forth.
I don't know if you consider that too many rolls or not, but I'm willing to bet on average it takes no more time than figuring out where to distribute points. Out of curiousity, how much did you chime in saying which rolls sucked, and which didn't? It isn't really a fair test of how long it takes if you were telling him not to accept stats that he would have been perfectly happy with.

Let's face it, most newbies are going to delete their first character pre level 30, and roll the race/class combo that just kicked the ever loving #### out of them. A few points of additional stats aren't going to change this fact.

The option you outlined has been discussed numerous occasions and has been decided to have as many drawbacks as it has advantages.

>Let's face it, most newbies are going to delete their first
>character pre level 30, and roll the race/class combo that
>just kicked the ever loving #### out of them. A few points of
>additional stats aren't going to change this fact.

Heh, I almost did that too with my first character. Good thing I failed to delete for some reason and an Imm told me to just reroll istead of deleting. I returned to Fungor soon after.

WOW! Don't i feel stupid for pressing yes on the first roll, after reading this thread. I allways thought starts are like totaly random thing which can never be maxed out. Don't even know what to say about that.

What i found/find most problematic

*Exploring is painfull.. So painfull that sometimes makes you want to never go anywhere alone, just wait untill someone asks for a third member and follow. I went down from 16 con to 9 con without a single fight and i think it took me two sessions.

*Equiptment
When i started i got completely stunned by the fact that you can't actualy have good equiptment bought... You have to know where to go for which toy. And if there is somehting good in a shop it costs more money than you can have as a newbie (the accamulating gold part i totaly agree with, if i tried i still wouldn't be able to)

*More Equipment.
I didn't really think about it untill i realized that hey, that level 4 dwarf has a weapon i tried to get at level 25 and got the life beaten out of me. And than a much lower level assassin than me kicked my arse without using any of their common tricks just because at that time i was proudly holding a sword from aldevari thinking how great it was. It's a pain learning what is good equipment and what is bad.

*Rolls
I still don't know how to determin what eq is better, and still can't understand the meaning of hit and damage rolls beacause i mannage to hit for Evicirating damage with 3 5, than wield an axe that eaises them by two and 4 and start missing and hitting for maiming damage at best, even though the axe seems stronger and my axe skill is higher.


But at least after reading this post i feel much better about getting my ass kicked every time i fight, because at least my first charecter isn't deleted after level 30, hehe.

P.S.
I seem to be experiencing trouble with the game not sure if it is related to somehting in the game..
Somehow every three commands i can't move or do anything for a few seconds... that proved to be vital when i tried to flee for two rounds and died.
Is there some sort of spam preventing delay on command amount?

You said:

*Rolls
I still don't know how to determin what eq is better, and still can't understand the meaning of hit and damage rolls beacause i mannage to hit for Evicirating damage with 3 5, than wield an axe that eaises them by two and 4 and start missing and hitting for maiming damage at best, even though the axe seems stronger and my axe skill is higher.

I say:
Items have a level associated with them. More powerful ones tend to be higher level. If the axe is particularly powerful, it is probably much higher level than you. That means you won't be able to use it to full effectiveness. I believe it is to prevent level 11s running around doing demolishes on every hit.

So the difference is probably this:

Your axe may have higher hit and dam, but when that, and the average weapon damage, is adjusted for the level of the axe, your resulting damage is weak.

Your sword may be crappy, but if it is low level, you will be getting 100% out of it.

Many people roll 1000s of times. I'm not saying to do that. However, I would suggest making 20 rolls, then sitting back and looking at them.

This should allow you to get an idea of what the highest strength you could roll is. What the highest int is. And so on with the other stats. Then add these together and you get (say) 120.

You can then continue rolling until you get something that is at least reasonable. Say, a total of 10 less than the maximum possible. So your stats add to give 110 at least.

I do suggest you do this because I have once rolled a character with the worst strength, con, and dex that I could. It was playable (as an experienced char), but just incredibly annoying. I couldn't carry much at all, so I was often running out of food and stuck with bad armor. My hp were extremely low (this char was a necromancer so they'd have been low anyway) and because I didn't have the ability to heal by draining enemies, it took me forever to heal. You really don't want to accidentally give yourself a similar handicap by accepting the first roll that you get.

My advice: if you continue to enjoy the game, keep on truckin'. You seem to have a really good attitude so far.

>*Exploring is painfull.. So painfull that sometimes makes you
>want to never go anywhere alone, just wait untill someone
>asks for a third member and follow. I went down from 16 con to
>9 con without a single fight and i think it took me two
>sessions.

Agree/disagree. Yes exploring can be ridiculously painful, but that can be mitigated by carefully looking at the level ranges for areas and avoiding the suicidal ones. Carrying a return potion or two never hurt either.

>And than a much lower level
>assassin than me kicked my arse without using any of their
>common tricks just because at that time i was proudly holding
>a sword from aldevari thinking how great it was. It's a pain
>learning what is good equipment and what is bad.

I used to hate that worse than anything. It was like I was thrown into a bike race with nothing but a tricycle. Try as hard as I might, I could never keep pace with the rest of the pack. My advice to you here: play a class that gets identify (or 100% lore) and locate object. Create a role where the purpose of your character's life is to accumulate knowledge, and proceed to go on a locating/identifying spree. Log everything using a client. If you meet someone (maybe in the context of a group, or cabal) and they're wearing something you don't recognize, ask them if you can identify it. If you don't know where it's from, ask them if they know. Etc.

>I still don't know how to determin what eq is better, and
>still can't understand the meaning of hit and damage rolls
>beacause i mannage to hit for Evicirating damage with 3 5,
>than wield an axe that eaises them by two and 4 and start
>missing and hitting for maiming damage at best, even though
>the axe seems stronger and my axe skill is higher.

Incognito described how it works pretty well. Your damage output is determined by the weapon's base damage average, the weapon's level, your skill at that weapon, your skill at enhanced damage (if you have it) and whether any vulnerabilities of resistances come into play. The "compare" command only takes into account weapon *levels*, not damroll, hitroll, or even weapon average. While higher level weapons are often better, that isn't always the case.

>Somehow every three commands i can't move or do anything for a
>few seconds... that proved to be vital when i tried to flee
>for two rounds and died.
>Is there some sort of spam preventing delay on command
>amount?

If someone's lagging you with a skill (trip, bash, pincer, etc.) then you won't be able to manually flee or execute any skills of your own. You can enter them in, but they won't "go through" until the lag wears off.